My Ridia - Lower Maridia Remix

[ncocs]

Ok, after scrapping my Floating on Stars, I decided I'd do one of my other favorite themes, Lower Maridia. This is just the first try at a good one. Feedback please?

Mix - http://www.mediafire.com/file/odd5bd69lzfbl8s/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.mp3

Original - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIwG-BH3DeE

[Gario]

Ahh... isn't this the wrong place for this remix? It'd probably get more feedback in the Remix WIP forum, anyway...

Very creepy mix. The bass is smashing, and the guitar is... piercing. You might want to tone that down in the highs.

It's pretty minimalist, but not bad. You could use a bit more texture in it periodically (vs the choral-style chords). It is short, and it doesn't do much with the theme. If you were planning on getting on OCR with it, it'd be wise to fix those issues.

I liked it, nonetheless.

[Rozovian]

Rather than make a new thread, just pm a mod to get the thread moved. Mods, merge the threads.

Also, your wip link 404s. Had to get it from the other thread.

Your levels are weird. I can barely hear most of the leads, and there's a lot of stuff that should be background that's way up front. Not to mention the crazy levels on the guitar. Listen to this, listen to how loud the different sounds are.

Your instruments sound rough. With the right volume envelope settings and note velocities you can create a much more human sound on those strings. Drums aren't terrible, I've certainly heard worse, but it only sounds like the basis for a good beat, not like a good beat itself. Listen to this, has some different rhythm ideas for you to analyze..

Meh, too tired to think straight. There's some assorted pointers and crits for you. Hope it helps. Hope it makes sense.

[ncocs]

Now for my gruesome Q&A session.

Gario:

1. Creepy...I didn't think so, what do you mean?

2. Smashing? Whatcha mean?

3. I'll soon fix the piercingness of the guitar.

4. Texture?

Rozovian:

1. I'll fix the levels, especially the guitar.

2. Be specific about sounds being in the wrong place. Like what's up front that shouldn't be?

3. Which instruments are rough?

4. What's wrong with the strings specifically?

5. I really need a beat to use. I have trouble with drum beats. Any specifics that aren't just showing me a remix?

Overall, more specifics would be nice from both of you. I'll work on it.

[hewhoisiam]

I see your crits as pretty uh, intuitive. But here we go.

Smashing: Powerful, lacking dynamics. A very full sound with little or no velocity changes. Overpowering other sounds.

Creepy: Yes?

Texture: You know coconut? People like the flavor, but not the texture? It's like that, but in your ears.

Up front that shouldn't be: Those huge bass/string sounds, while your melody is playing on the guitar. They're a background supporting sound.

Rough instruments: Things need humanized and livened up. The strings are bland, the guitar is all the same velocity. Some echo effects would go a long way in places. Etc.

Strings: Loud, all the same volume, no changes in the attack, tis all short attacks. Long attacks IMHO are better for pad sounding strings.

Beats: The best thing to do is look at other work and see what other people did. Showing you a remix is about the best thing you can get because a song is worth 1000 words. Kinda like asking what the Mona Lisa looks like. It's a picture of a lady. Drum beats put bass drum on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4. I mean. I can help some, but it's a hugely broad question. This is a slow song. Consider very ambient kinds of drum sounds. Cymbals, bells. Ghost notes on the snare drum. All that stuff'll help.

I pretty much echo their concerns. Rozovian is pretty good. Gario is a slacker, but eh. What can ya do.

[ncocs]

I'm extremely frustrated right now. I just can't get a remix to work out for me, and by the time that I get to something I can work with, I just don't feel it anymore!!! Can somebody please collab with me or do something else more helpful then what has been given to me already?! If not, I'm scrapping this remix too! I want a remix to make it onto the site, and right now, I doubt I'll ever be able to do anything with it. I'm a loser.

[Gario]

I don't remember the mix being too bad, really. Don't worry about your skills, you have what it takes, judging from what you posted here.

As for my comments...

Creepy - it was an eerie arrangement. I'm sure that's due to the source, but hey, nothing wrong with that. I like it.

Smashing - I meant 'Good'. Right now I'm sick and slightly incoherent, so... sorry that you thought it meant something else. I really liked the bass - it was thick and juicy.

Piercing - as the others said; the guitar shoots out too far to the front, right now. It needs to be mixed down a bit.

Texture - The approach to the harmonies in your mix are strictly block chords. While it's fitting, considering the minimalist approach, you use them too much and they begin to sound dull. Slow arpeggiations could be used periodically, or even a creepy slow waltz could fill the harmonies every so often. It'll help break up the static nature of the arrangement.

I'd speak for Rozo, but... well, he can speak for himself, when he gets to it (I'm not gonna do the work for him, eh? ). This mix has potential behind it, don't be discouraged. I hope my explanations help.

[ncocs]

Thank you Gario, for that encouraging post; I'm gonna continue this remix.

.mp3 so far: http://www.mediafire.com/file/kmabaej2sqbfj57/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.mp3

.flp in case anyone wants to actually show me what they mean: http://www.mediafire.com/file/qbdr6c4v0nbfn27/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.flp

Listen, you guys. I'm new. I probably should have mentioned that earlier. I need extra clarification. That's why I posted the link to the .flp, so that you guys can look at it, and give me extra help depending on what it looks like on FL Studio.

[Rozovian]

We know you're new. You're probably gonna sound like a newb for at least a year. It takes time to learn to make music. This thread could be an interesting read.

Rozovian:

1. I'll fix the levels, especially the guitar.

2. Be specific about sounds being in the wrong place. Like what's up front that shouldn't be?

3. Which instruments are rough?

4. What's wrong with the strings specifically?

5. I really need a beat to use. I have trouble with drum beats. Any specifics that aren't just showing me a remix?

1. Levels are much better now. Nice work. Always make sure your levels are at least in the ballpark.

2. Strings are more upfront that some of the melodic content. Because of the complexity of the melodies and even the sounds themselves, you'll wanna put the least interesting stuff further back and the most interesting ones more upfront. There are times when you can break this "rule", but first you gotta learn why to stick with it most of the time.

3. hewo ninja'd some of my crits on this area, esp. 4. strings. They sound softer more appropriate for the mood, even a bit more human now. Right now, the sound of the drums and the guitar are the ones that stand out as rough and mechanical.

5. You've gotten some pointers on drums already, but the best way to learn this is listening to other drums, and experimenting yourself. Does it sound good when you put a drum note in the "wrong" place? Why? Does it sound good when it's a different drum? How do you make the drums sound faster? And slower? And jerky? And smooth? And groovy? And how do fills work? Llisten to stuff, experiment, and figure this stuff out.

Most things can be learned by listening and/or experimenting. Keep it up, every time you fix something new, you learn something new. Every time you fail something new, someone might point out something new. And then you can fix it, and learn it.

[ncocs]

Ok guys. As of now, guitar has a higher/longer attack slightly and bass and chord strings have a higher/longer attack. Even without all the help on the drums, I still don't know what do do with them. I really hate to be such a bother about them specifically. I know what you mean, Rozo, when you said it's just the basis. But honestly I can't decide what to do! And what the heck are ghost notes?! You said you knew that I'm a noob, why don't you help me like I'm a noob? CLARIFICATION is the key word here.

Now that that's over with, I have a file for ya.

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/file/q0yne1u9qnnof3k/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.mp3

Please help me more!

[ncocs]

After reading a tutorial on Zirconstudios.com about how to make synth/imitation drums work and sound real, I started changing velocities of the drums to make sure that Rozovian is pleased by making the song more of his favorite word: humanized.

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ag67d0mzb2xeizo/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.mp3

HUMANIZED guitar is the next update.

[ncocs]

Alright, humanized guitar.

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/file/deo6qxqp9p668rm/MyRidia%20-%20Lower%20Maridia.mp3

After listening to the drums more closely, I noticed that sometimes it gets really quiet. What do ya'll think about them?

P.S. Rozo, I've been playing instruments (flute, piano, a little guitar, chimes, handbells, and more) since I was in 1st grade. I know music, just not when it comes to computer made music--that's what I'm new at.

[hewhoisiam]

Right then. Stuff and such was done and said, we've got a newer version.

As far as being a noob and clarification. This is the intranets. Wikipedia is your friend, and pretty much 90% of my musical knowledge is wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_note Coming back to your thread and complaining about how people help you is going to frustrate you and the critics who are trying to help you. That statement about wanting helped like a noob... you don't think we're intentionally saying things you won't get, do you? I'm flattered, but come on now.

I'm going to harp on the drums for a second. The nature of the beast as far as this source and atmosphere is pretty ambiant sounding. This track would actually sound fine with no drums at all. Your drum track locks in with hats on all the beats. It's interesting, but not meshing well. It's too full sounding. Try something with a long sound like open hats, or a crash cymbal on just 1 and 3. (half what you have now) Putting some embellishments on the snare (ghost notes, rolls) And see if that doesn't work out better for ya. Another thing I could really see working well would be to have a brush kit, and doing lots of snare work.

It's pretty short as is. Pick a part you like and play with it, expand it. Lots you can do.

[ncocs]

Honestly, I like this one a lot. But I'm lost on what to do to it next. Recommendations?

EDIT: Or not?

[ncocs]

What do I do? No reply...

[Rozovian]

Dude, you need patience. Also, this forum isn't all about you. Don't become completely dependent on ppl's feedback and unable to work on stuff without using your own head.

Making it your own is probably the most difficult part of remixing. Anyone can take a midi and put their own instruments on it, most instrumentalists can make a cover, and most ppl who can write music write original stuff. But to adapt an existing song? Takes a whole different kind of thinking.

Listen to what ppl on ocremix have done to songs. zircon and pixietricks have a cool take on this same source, which is an example of what you can do with it. Prophecy did a take on it a while backcalled "Back To The Place I Once Knew", another example.

Is there a particular way you want to use a part of the source? Do you have an intro in mind? An outro? Some idea of what you can do with it? Do that. See where it takes you.

[ncocs]

New Version.

-Added Pad-

So that you guys can be more specific to me about which part I think is what...

Intro: 00:00 to 00:24

Chorus: 00:24 to 00:54

Bridge: 00:54 to 01:24

Chorus: 01:24 to 02:06

End: 02:06 to End

It sounds better with pad, right?

[ncocs]

New Version. Again.

-New Lead Version-

Added a new lead in the bridge, reminiscent of a Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Sanctuary Fortress lead instrument.

Is it doing well? Is the new lead good for it? I have questions, do you have answers?

[Rozovian]

Careful about the highs on your new lead... which sounds pretty good, btw. A bit overly resonant, consider doing a bit of EQ work to reduce the offending frequencies. Which ones are those? Turn up the volume, you should notice. Pads are a good addition as well. Both of them work well and sound a lot better than the stuff you had there before.

Drums feel like they don't belong. Wrong sound, possibly also sequencing that doesn't work with the rhythms of the rest of the instrumentation.

Guitar and bells stand out, and not in a good way. Careful about how you mix those. You may have to apply some reverb to mask them more, push them further back; and/or edit the sampler/synth you're using to filter them and/or give them a less distinct attack. They stand out too much. Push them back. Find the balance.

Too conservative for ocr. If you're just focusing on the production and nothing else, don't worry about it. If you wanna learn arranging, writing, that stuff from this wip... redo it. Or make two remixes of it. It easier to start fresh when you need to rewrite something completely. Now that you're this familiar with it, take step back and think about it. What parts are you favorites? Can you use those in a different way? Can you apply a new rhythm? What can you do different?

And if you need help figuring out how to make stuff different, listen to some remixes and compare the originals. Some of the remixers here take a lot of liberties with the source. Pick a source you know has been remix, think about how you'd arrange it, what you'd rewrite, how you'd use the parts... then listen to what other ppl have done.

That's if you're arranging/rewriting. if you're focusing on production, never mind.

[ncocs]

Sorry to be such a n00b, but "production?" What? I wanted to stay close to the source for this one, if that matters...

I don't hear what you're talking about with the lead.

What about the drums doesn't belong? I think they sound fine, but apparently nobody else does.

I probably won't continue this much longer unless I get a big idea. Altermentality and me are going to do a collaboration, so that's what we'll be working on primarily, if Courtney ever gets back to me on what track to do.

[Rozovian]

Production is the quality of sequencing, recording, performance, mixing, sound design, all that. it's contrasted with arrangement, which is how the source is used, the structure of the track, the harmonies, the rhythms, the choice of instrumentation, that stuff.

The problem with the drums is that they have a raw sampled acoustic sound to them, whereas the rest of the instrumentation (with the possible exception of the guitar) doesn't. It's not like it can't be done, it's just that it's a lot more work to make them fit... which they currently don't.

Sticking close to source is one thing, doing a midi rip is another... and remixing for ocr is somewhere between the former and something entirely different. It's a lot of fun to get to use the source in a different context. But you might need some more practice before you can do it, idunno. We'll see. Sound upgrades and minor creative alterations is a good way to learn.

Good luck with the collab.

[ncocs]

Production is the quality of sequencing, recording, performance, mixing, sound design, all that. it's contrasted with arrangement, which is how the source is used, the structure of the track, the harmonies, the rhythms, the choice of instrumentation, that stuff.

The problem with the drums is that they have a raw sampled acoustic sound to them, whereas the rest of the instrumentation (with the possible exception of the guitar) doesn't. It's not like it can't be done, it's just that it's a lot more work to make them fit... which they currently don't.

Sticking close to source is one thing, doing a midi rip is another... and remixing for ocr is somewhere between the former and something entirely different. It's a lot of fun to get to use the source in a different context. But you might need some more practice before you can do it, idunno. We'll see. Sound upgrades and minor creative alterations is a good way to learn.

Good luck with the collab.

Courtney's slow right now, but we have a track! It's gonna be a medley of the Underground Crateria and the Space Pirate themes.

It'll be good. If we ever get started.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, back to this song. I still don't know what you were talking about with the lead. I think it sounds fine.

And with the drums, how could I make them work? A different drum kit, maybe? More reverb to soften it? I just don't know.

Working on something with it right now where that flutey part goes synthy.

It'll be good.

[ncocs]

Flutey goes Synthy.

Link.

So, in the next version, I'll fix the "offending frequencies" (still don't know what they are).

Maybe add something else too? I don't know yet.

[ncocs]

New drum kit.

Link.

Is it better? I think it sounds less sampled but still real.

Well now I've changed everything I feel like I know how to do at this point. Should I possibly say it's finished?

[ncocs]

BUMP.

1.5 months with no reply. GREAT.

EDIT: Now that I listened to the ending again, the final note doesn't echo quite as far. I must have taken out the silent note that made it echo. I'll fix that in the next update.