anime and ambient style percussion

[erineclipse]

How do I make it not suck? I don't really know that much music theory, except by ear. All I know is that you should change the drums from time to time, especially during emotional changes throughout the song (slow them down to add impact, etc.)

I'm also worried about the quality...no matter what samples I get or how much reverb and flanger I put on them they still don't sound crystally; they just sound reverb-y and flanger-y.

example of good drums:

[Moseph]

A flanger isn't going to give you a crystalline sound, and reverb isn't really going to help either. It's probably going to be more of an EQ thing.

[Rozovian]

How do I make it not suck? I don't really know that much music theory, except by ear. All I know is that you should change the drums from time to time, especially during emotional changes throughout the song (slow them down to add impact, etc.)

I'm also worried about the quality...no matter what samples I get or how much reverb and flanger I put on them they still don't sound crystally; they just sound reverb-y and flanger-y.

Why would you expect anything other than a flanger-y and reverb-y sound from doing that?

A lot of the drum sound comes out of the samples you use, and how you use them. For a long, deep drum, use a shorter, higher drum and pitch it down. Avoid sequencing them mechanically (ie edit velocity and make sure the instrument you use actually care about velocity).

In the MP2 example, you've got a big deep drum, which is either a big deep drum sample or a pitched down sample of a less big, less deep drum. There's a hihat that sounds pretty much like any hihat, it's just got a lot of reverb on it for a dirtier sound that makes it fit in more. There's two tuned synth percussion things in there, which can be almost anything with a short envelope (<300ms). There's a snare in there, usually with some tuned synth perc on it so it's difficult to hear. Sound like a fairly regular snare, possibly pitched down somewhat and again with reverb.

That example is _not_ an example of crystally drums. They are, however, given room in the frequency range with EQ. If you don't mix them right, it doesn't matter how great your samples and processing is - they won't cut through.

But really, get yourself some drum samples and pitch them down, see if that's closer to the sound you want. Learn to guess the sound you'll get from pitching something down so you can quickly identify the sound you need. Also, learn to use effects right. I can imagine a few times where flanger would be appropriate for drums, but a crystally sound isn't one of them.

tl;dr: get more samples, pitch them down, eq everything to give them space.

[mickomoo]

do you need to mix drums and percussion? I mean idk if it's just the samples I'm using but hey sound fine the way they are, I just wish that the orchestral percussion I had had more samples, the only thing I can use are the snares a symbol and a bass drum.

But I mean unless I wanted to do something like

, or anything else... lol that sheet thin snare sounds really cool.

[Rozovian]

do you need to mix drums and percussion? I mean idk if it's just the samples I'm using but hey sound fine the way they are, I just wish that the orchestral percussion I had had more samples, the only thing I can use are the snares a symbol and a bass drum.

*cymbal.

If you have a kit put together by someone that knows what they're doing, those samples should sound good together... but they might not work that well as-is once you put them together with all the other instruments. They might be too prominent, or not enough, their dynamics might be different than the other sounds you're using... and as with everything, you'll need to give them their own space in the mix.

Technically, you "mix" whenever you put things together, whether you do it thoroughly or haphazardly, but I get what you mean.

So yes, you do need to mix them in properly. Depending on their sound, properly can mean a lot of different things, so you gotta use your ears. But you still gotta do it right.

[erineclipse]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm quoting some stuff I would like to clear up:

There's two tuned synth percussion things in there, which can be almost anything with a short envelope (<300ms). There's a snare in there, usually with some tuned synth perc on it so it's difficult to hear.

What do you mean by tuned? Does it matter what key drums are in (C vs. D) or if they are off-tune? Also, what kind of synth percussion is it? Are you talking about that weird techno drum that reminds me of the CMP-150 in Perfect Dark?

That example is _not_ an example of crystally drums. They are, however, given room in the frequency range with EQ. If you don't mix them right, it doesn't matter how great your samples and processing is - they won't cut through. So, if the drums are high-pitched, what settings would I put in the fruity parametric EQ?

Would I make it look something like this: _ _ - - " " ?

Also it sounds like the put some effect on some of the drums in the song...if I were to describe it in words, its like they raised the pitch, but also stretched out the sound duration. The sound itself sounds like a slice of rubber being poked in the center, or something submerging into a pool of water (not splashing, submerging.) It would be easier if there were no background noise though.

[Rozovian]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm quoting some stuff I would like to clear up:

What do you mean by tuned? Does it matter what key drums are in (C vs. D) or if they are off-tune? Also, what kind of synth percussion is it? Are you talking about that weird techno drum that reminds me of the CMP-150 in Perfect Dark?

Would I make it look something like this: _ _ - - " " ?

Also it sounds like the put some effect on some of the drums in the song...if I were to describe it in words, its like they raised the pitch, but also stretched out the sound duration. The sound itself sounds like a slice of rubber being poked in the center, or something submerging into a pool of water (not splashing, submerging.) It would be easier if there were no background noise though.

Just like a string, a drum has a pitch at which it resonates. As drums tend to be made out of two differently tuned skins, tuned differently so the sound is kind'a atonal (consider toms in a regular drum kit). When not tuned differently, you'll get a much longer, more tonal drum sound. Sometimes you want that. Sometimes not.

There's a gazillion different ways to make synth percussion, whether it's just a volume envelope for a noise channel or multiple-operator fm. They all have varying degrees of tonal-ness. For some sounds, it doesn't matter what key you play since you'll get an atonal percussive noise thing, but it makes a big difference with those that have more tonal qualities.

As for EQing stuff, just go through your tracks and carve room for them (in order of importance) in the less important tracks. That way, your lead will stand out more than your pad (unless you mixed track levels wrong). So with just a pad and a lead:

Lead: --¨¨-

Pad: _-__-

Of course, this should be subtle. If you're thinking in excess of 10dB and narrow bands, you're doing it wrong (or you might even be using the wrong tool if you have to do stuff like that... except when it's for effect). Anyway, this can be applied to drums as well. Just check the frequency distribution of each sound instead of trying to raise frequencies that aren't there.

Can't listen atm, but there's some thoughts that might be helpful.

[OverCoat]

the drums should flow with the song if you make ambient

you have to decide if you want soft drums or hard drums, there are different types of ambient [not sure what you mean by "anime" drums] which would need different types of drums.

For example, if you listen to my song "Question of Temperature"

You will hear hard drums, and I made them flow with the song by applying an LFO device to the amount of reverb!

Now let's look at some xerxes, I consider these soft drums

there is a real drumkit [brush drums] layered with short blippy drums to give some definition, quite a piece of work, the depth and layers to the song give it a kind of "rainy" feel.

[erineclipse]

thanks for the help =)