Little Nemo: The Dream Master - "Circus of Dreams"

[tymime]

UPDATE: Final version here- https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1bp4pINjINbZzJIXzRLaDRqSGs

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Finally getting around to commencing to finish some of my ideas, and maybe posting some WIPs will give me more incentive to do more.

This is pretty much the "dry" mix. There's going to be another section, plus a lot of effects and such.

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source:

and something else

Edited March 30, 2017 by tymime

[tymime]

Hello? I'd really like some input on this. I'm just so proud of it.

[tymime]

New WIP- some instruments replaced, some instruments added, lots of new sound effects.

To do- more sound effects, record live instruments and vocals.

download

[Jaipurna]

I like the comic strip, I didn't know there was a game.

Your arrangement is very sweet. Although the main part is similar to the original, there's a nice introduction and a neat transition to the sea theme from ... something else.

The ending may be a little abrupt, but that's a minor thing.

Good luck for submission !

[tymime]

I'm fond of the original arrangement (though I didn't lift it directly), so that's why I introduce a counterpoint on the calliope later on.

[tymime]

I don't know what took me so long, but I finally finished this one. Link in first post.

[tymime]

I have to say, there are some seriously incorrect assumptions about this track from the judges.

-I cannot hear any sour note at 2:10. The high note is the same as the previous phrase, and is the root of the chord behind it anyway.
-There are zero "electronic game machines" (whatever that means) in the Mario section. Most of it is random bits of calliope and brass band, very much like "Mr. Kite". It's deliberate chaos.
-The drums aren't supposed to be loud. The organ is meant to be the lead instrument.
-There are zero loop points in the sound effects and only one of them is used more than once (once at the beginning of the song, and once at the end).
-There's lots of panning in the second half of the song- the harmonium goes back and forth constantly. The organ is also spread across the stereo, though very subtly. I didn't feel it was appropriate to have the calliope panned when there are only two others (the organ- which plays the melody, accompaniment, and bassline- and the drums). I could probably pan the left hand and right hand parts of the calliope, but I don't know how that would sound.

I would appreciate it if the judges would not rely on assumptions to make their decisions. That said, I will take into account some of their comments (when I resubmit) even though I disagree with them on some points.
I hope you guys can understand why I'm upset.

[Gario]

Hello! Would you mind if I pop in for a bit? I really did enjoy this track on the panel, and I was one of the three that judged it, so I'd rather help out on here than leave it on that sour note. I also like relevant but no-less terrible puns, so be wary. Going point by point:

- I agree with you - what I hear is dissonance, not sour notes. It's a strong dissonance for sure (specifically, a melodic dissonance, utilizing a raised 6th in the Wurlitzer melodically against the chromaticism in the organ), but it resolves appropriately. Had that been his primary reason for rejection I personally would have asked him to reconsider.

- While there are no 'electronic gaming machines', per se, there are certainly sound effects that sound like pinball machines (such as at 2:14, for a specific time point). It's an honest mistake if we think it sounds like old fashion gaming machines when the sound effects are specifically blips and bloops from fortune telling machines from a carnival, so hopefully you understand. Nominal differences aside, MW's main issue with the SFX (like at 2:14, or the brass at 2:18) is that if the background SFX has pitch it very well could clash with the music you wrote unintentionally. It doesn't bother me too much specifically (it sounds like Charles Ive's 'Central Park in the Dark', which I personally really love), but it's not something everyone is used to. Whether it's advice you want to heed is up to you, but it's a valid point to bring up (because technically there IS tonal clashing with the SFX and themes), so it's something you should make a conscious decision on, not an incidental one.

- Listening to this again (as I didn't catch it in my review), the percussion is indeed very quiet. The snare roll is purposeful and at a good level in the mix (as it sounds like something from a carnival performance), but I didn't know bass and hats were even in the mix until looking at it now. I personally don't mind either way (as the track sounds fine with no percussion, honestly), but if you wanted the percussion to contribute to the arrangement take note that I legitimately didn't hear it outside of the snare.

- I can't speak for the other judges, but I didn't hear any looping points either. As there's really no rule against a loop point on a SFX that's not likely a deciding factor on your arrangement regardless; the comment directed at loop points was used to support a larger point that the background was too dense as far as SFX use, which is something I did agree with.

- I think the panning was sufficient, personally. I will note that with the SFX being as prominent as they are, it makes it difficult to hear the panning in the instruments throughout, but that's not an issue with your panning or spread. It'll likely be something that won't be considered an issue if the SFX are less dense (so you likely don't need to worry about it), but that doesn't make it justified to comment on it. We're all human after all, even on the panel.

Seeing there are no mentions of SFX density in the grievances here, I suspect the larger concern that the judges shared unanimously wasn't in as much question. For me, the overwhelming presence of the SFX were overpowering the arrangement, which was the only thing that turned my vote sour. My colleagues pointed out some details that could potentially cause concern once that's addressed, but in comparison those are smaller points behind the larger concern. Hopefully that helps clear up any questions or concerns.

[tymime]

I'm glad you could chime in. I kinda hate to bring up more mistakes since you want to keep this lighter, but I want to clarify a few more things.

I don't know what you mean by dissonance- the high note at 2:10 is perfectly consonant with the chords at that point (D11 and then D7). The note is D, which is the 3rd in the key of Bb (the middle section), and the 5th in the key of G (the rest of the song). Unless the chromatic climb from the underwater theme is influencing that, I don't know what you mean by "raised 6th".

I didn't use any pinball machines or fortune telling machines either. All the sounds in that section are clips of calliope, brass band and ragtime piano. (Some of the calliope might be mechanical.) I purposely altered the pitch of many of the clips so that it'd sound mostly consonant, but part of the idea was zany circus chaos, so it was supposed to be a little random.

Like I said, I will address the sound effects concern when I resubmit, it's just that I thought they were already at a good volume- loud enough to be noticeable, but not enough to bury the music. I struggled with that a lot, and it's a bit frustrating that it didn't work out.

[Gario]

What's specifically dissonant? The high note is consonant, it's the accordion behind the high note that's dissonant. It's a major 2nd against the bass that resolves into a major 3rd at 2:10. Dissonant doesn't mean bad - all passing tones, neighbor tones, suspended tones, etc., are dissonant, as is the case here. In fact, music really can't exist without dissonance, as that's what creates motion (literally, without ANY dissonance all music would be the root open fifth without a changing chord - that's the only thing that's absolutely not dissonant, in theory). The fact that mixture was incorporated prior, which used a lowered 6th (relative to the key of G) makes the normal/raised/natural 6th even more poignant. Interestingly, if I were to be formal and put my theory hat on technically the dissonant 2nd above the bass wasn't approached and resolved in a way that makes tonal sense (leap into the dissonance to create the 2nd, steps up instead of down to resolve it - some more obscure music theory rules comin' at ya), but I would never look at someone's music from that angle as this isn't a theory exercise... That does make the dissonance stronger and the resolution a bit weaker (which justifies Mind Wanderer's note that it was sour to some extent, actually), but again I don't think it's problematic. Just dissonant and interesting.

To clarify 'raised 6th', in the key of BbM (which you modulated to earlier - it's the relative major to Gm, which makes it a form of primary mixture) the 6th of GM is lowered (as is the 3rd and 7th). At 2:10 you're cadencing in the key of GM (dominant chord DM being used) straight from BbM, and while the highest and lowest note is 'D' (the 5th scale degree) I certainly do hear an 'E' under the highest note, which eventually moves to 'F#'. That 'E' is the dissonance, and because prior to this moment the track was in BbM, which normally uses Eb in it's scale. Thus, the 'E' is a raised form of the Bb's 'Eb'. That's the 'raised 6th' I was talking about - it's raised in comparison to what was happening prior, not in comparison to the original key signature.

The chromaticism behind all of this gives the part a little more color, and honestly fits the theme of a carnival anyway. So yeah - perhaps that will help clarify what I mean by dissonant, and perhaps why Mind Wanderer thought it was sour.

Oh, as far as the zaniness of a carnival goes I really do recommend Charles Ive's 'Central Park in the Dark', it's literally right up your alley, and might actually give you some ideas for something like this (or similar in the future). One of the greatest American composers, and it's almost a template for something like this.

... I also maaaaaybe trying to share one of my favorite composers ever, too, so... Yeah. Check him out.

[Sir_NutS]

I didn't vote on this one, but here are my quick 2c:

-The arrangement is great, the many SFX in the background are too distracting though.
-I do get what you're going for, but the song would really be better off with less background (and in most cases, foreground) SFX, IMO.  Sometimes it feels like pure noise instead of controlled chaos which I think is the intention.  Personally I would go for sporadic use of sfx to accentuate the mood instead of the constant barrage... but  that may not complete your vision for the track.
-I love Little Nemo music and know the entire soundtrack by heart, and I kinda enjoyed this remix, but I also agree that it's not ready for the front page yet.

[tymime]

Here's a new mix (it's in .flac btw): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1bp4pINjINbc2pwWHJRdW0tS2M/view?usp=sharing
It's mostly the same, but the sfx are a little quiter, and some instruments are louder. I'd say it sounds fine (it'll probably be the version I put on YouTube/Soundcloud), but I figured I ought to post it here first before resubmitting.

I would've had this done sooner, but I discovered several of the source recordings were corrupted beyond repair, and I wasn't looking forward to redoing them. But then a few weeks ago I realized I could splice the old mixdown into the new mix pretty easily since it was mostly vocals that I lost, and those parts had much less sfx underneath. So yeah.