Best Value: Komplete 8 vs EWQL Composers Collection

[The Biznut]

Komplete 8 is to be released in a few weeks, and I have been eyeing it. I have also been eyeing the composers collection, especially during the times when it has dipped to around 750, usually once a year it seems.

With a kid on the way, I don't think I will have the time or free cash to justify the purchase, but I have been curious which would be better value:

Komplete 8 - around 550

EWQL Complete Composers - around 800 - 1000 if sale is on.

What is your personal opinion? I understand it all comes down to what type of sounds you are going for, etc, so what would YOU buy? OR would you spend that money on another music sample/software pack?

And for that matter, if you are going with Komplete 8, do you grab the ultimate version with the HD, for around 1100?

[Yoozer]

Komplete 8 because it spans a far wider range of instruments. Reaktor in there is already essentially a whole load of synths for free - and an actual synthesizer, not a front-end for a sample engine. Plus Kontakt 4 opens all kinds of doors - as far as I know (and I could be wrong) there are no third party developers for the Play engine so you're stuck with what EW offers you.

I have K7 now so of course I'm biased - it's also cheaper to upgrade for me. But I won't upgrade to Ultimate; Komplete 9's upgrade would have an unpredictable cost, and the upgrade is too rich for my blood.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well if you're talking vs. Composer's Collection, you have to say Ultimate because the prices are more similar (more similarly ridiculously expensive that is).

Komplete 8 Ultimate is VERY versatile and has lots of sounds for any styles of music, while Composer's Collection, (with my choice of QLSO, Pianos Gold, Silk, Ra, Gypsy, Choirs Bundle and Storm Drum 2 Bundle, which totals to $860) is incredibly useful for more cinematic and acoustic instrument situations.

So it depends on what you're looking to do. I would get Komplete 8 Ultimate because I'm just a sucker for GIGANTIC sound libraries where you can spend hours looking at patches and marvelling at the notion that you just made the best investment ever. It's like when I got Kontakt 4, so I'll have the same feeling. (only tenfold)

If I got Komplete to have a very high quality selection of bread and butter stuff, I would purchase Composer's Collection afterwards, because while it is versatile, the Kontakt orchestra section leave a lot to be desired. The VSL orchestral stuff is good for slower passages, but not aggressive pieces. Not that I'm complaining, it's 100x better than the soundfonts I used to use.

Not to mention symphonic choirs has a word builder, and silk/gypsy/RA would have tons more than the world section in Kontakt. Storm Drum 2 would also be a huge improvement, since I'm not sure if NI's library offers anything similar to Godzilla Hits. xD

The short version? BOTH.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Neblix

[Meteo Xavier]

Komplete 8 Ultimate VS Composers Collection?

Not bad. Tough call. East West clearly wins in the sample quality category, but Komplete 8 Ultimate gives you the ability to do a wide variety of genres with an admirably but still noticeably "hobbyist" quality to them (although newer sample sets may be different). Plus Komplete offers software thats industry standard for a lot of other sample/synth sets - Kontakt being obvious, but FM8 for electro stuff, Absynth for cool ambient stuff, and Reaktor.

I myself find I've enjoyed Composers Collection a lot more than Komplete 6, I'd probably buy that one again so I can switch out a couple of them for Gypsy and Goliath so I can still have a wider range of things.

[Nabeel Ansari]

but Komplete 8 Ultimate gives you the ability to do a wide variety of genres with an admirably but still noticeably "hobbyist" quality to them

I disagree. If you're talking about the STOCK kontakt library, yes, but the other more specialized sample libraries included are awesome.

You never really buy Kontakt for its sound library unless you're someone like me who is upgrading from only soundfonts. It's not fair to say East West has better quality because NI has a lot more libraries with instruments that East West has not even touched.

BTW, gratz on your new mini-you, Biznut!

Edited August 14, 2011 by Neblix

[Meteo Xavier]

I disagree. If you're talking about the STOCK kontakt library, yes, but the other more specialized sample libraries included are awesome.

Well of course I'm talking about stock libraries, although some stuff like Battery 3, Guitar Rig, Session Strings have a weird, "thick" and for lack of a better description, "lightly distortioned" quality to them that I really don't like. It's only recently with the West Africa library and Alicia's Keys do they really sound like they have a professional clarity to me, but as I struggle to articulate my thoughts beyond that, I suggest not putting too much stock into those opinions.

Point is... well I made it already in the post above, but yes I'm generally talking about stock libraries.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well of course I'm talking about stock libraries, although some stuff like Battery 3, Guitar Rig, Session Strings have a weird, "thick" and for lack of a better description, "lightly distortioned" quality to them that I really don't like. It's only recently with the West Africa library and Alicia's Keys do they really sound like they have a professional clarity to me, but as I struggle to articulate my thoughts beyond that, I suggest not putting too much stock into those opinions.

Point is... well I made it already in the post above, but yes I'm generally talking about stock libraries.

The stock libraries are about 1/6th of the stuff you'll find in Komplete 8 Ultimate. Kontakt is like 43GB out of what, 240GB? Komplete 8 Ult. is a bundle of all of their products. Like, ALL OF THEM. They have tons of sample libraries that aren't just Alicia's Keys, West Africa, or Session Strings. Take a look through their catalog some time.

I stand by saying it's not fair to compare the stock library of Kontakt to Complete Composer's Collection. That would be a comparison between Kontakt and CCC, not Komplete 8 Ultimate and CCC.

[Kanthos]

What genres of music do you hope to create? If you mainly want to make orchestral music, I'd probably go with CCC. Komplete 8 offers very little that will be good quality, though I prefer winds from the Kontakt library (they're adapted from the Vienna Symphonic Library special edition suite, I think) over EWQL Symphonic Orchestra's winds. Basically though, both Kontakt's stock orchestral sounds and EWQLSO are general libraries; EWQLSO is probably better overall, but you might be better off spreading your money around to get, for example, LA Scoring Strings or Symphobia and some VSL Special Edition winds and Project SAM Orchestral Brass. Then again, you'll need a full version of Kontakt for some of those.

The other thing to consider is that for other third-party libraries, you may need a full version of Kontakt; it's not *that* much more to just get Komplete.

If you're set on doing only orchestral, I'd rethink getting either package, but if you want a general set of instruments, I'd go with Komplete, and maybe spring for Alicia's Keys. Both suites have their tradeoffs, but Komplete is easily the winner if you want decent synth sounds, especially if you have no other synths. In the CCC, everything is sampled. I'd also rate Komplete higher for their B3 and electric piano sounds; I'm still on Komplete 6 and I liked the Scarbee Vintage Keys package enough to buy it separately and use it in my live keyboard rig. Plus, the Vintage Organ package is sampled, but covers the full range of B3 drawbar positions (plus a few other vintage organ types and variations); it's a worthy successor to NI's old B4-II instrument.

One last consideration is how good a computer you have. Kontakt has always been regarded as the better sampler, and while I haven't paid attention to how well EastWest's PLAY 3 engine has been performing (it was released within the last couple months as a free upgrade to anyone using any PLAY instruments), PLAY 2 was generally regarded as having much worse performance. Even if PLAY 3 provides a slight advantage, even to Kontakt 5 which will be released at the end of September along with Komplete 8, I'd be shocked if NI didn't regain their edge quickly. Plus, no one other than EWQL is making sample libraries on the PLAY engine.

[Meteo Xavier]

I stand by saying it's not fair to compare the stock library of Kontakt to Complete Composer's Collection. That would be a comparison between Kontakt and CCC, not Komplete 8 Ultimate and CCC.

43GB of useless samples is still a hell of lot to have that are useless.

Still, we're not really disagreeing about anything. Komplete 8 ultimate sounds awesome and its a really tough call between that and CCC. Getting both is WAY too expensive though.

[Nabeel Ansari]

43GB of useless samples is still a hell of lot to have that are useless.

Still, we're not really disagreeing about anything. Komplete 8 ultimate sounds awesome and its a really tough call between that and CCC. Getting both is WAY too expensive though.

They're not useless at all. They sound great, and if you don't think so then you're not using them to the best of your ability.

[dannthr]

I would go with Komplete 8 Regular and then save my 500 bucks on 3rd party Kontakt only sample libraries.

[Meteo Xavier]

I would go with Komplete 8 Regular and then save my 500 bucks on 3rd party Kontakt only sample libraries.

And what would you recommend from these 3rd parties? I myself recommend SHREDDAGE and CINEHARP and recommend checking out Emotional Piano, Spirit Flute, and Zitherette from what used to be Tonehammer.

[dannthr]

And what would you recommend from these 3rd parties? I myself recommend SHREDDAGE and CINEHARP and recommend checking out Emotional Piano, Spirit Flute, and Zitherette from what used to be Tonehammer.

There are many options of all different kinds, but Biznut has not described exactly WHAT kind of music s/he wants to make.

[ShrackAttack]

I would go with Komplete 8 Regular and then save my 500 bucks on 3rd party Kontakt only sample libraries.

^Pretty much what dannthr said. Personally I wouldn't buy EWQL CCC again due to the PLAY engine alone, but that's because I've had a lot of problems with it personally. I'd wait and save up for libraries that use Kontakt (which is basically everything else)

[Meteo Xavier]

I have yet to see why PLAY is so maligned myself. I need to check out the new PLAY 3 engine.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I wouldn't mind buying CCC for PLAY now that I have a better machine that can handle it.

My top choices for 3rd party libraries would be Impact Soundworks' entire collection and Cinematic Strings if I were to go with Dannthr's selection. Not sure if you count Abbey Road's drum libraries as third party but I would get those too, and on top of that CCC because neither I nor my processor gives a damn.

[ShrackAttack]

I will say Hollywood Brass sounds quite nice , but that's a whole different topic.

[Pyro Paper Planes]

I own the CCC (EWQL Symphony Orchestra, EWQL Symphonic Choirs, QL Pianos, QL Ministry of Rock, QL Gypsy, QL SILK, QL Stormdrum 2). While I've owned it for 6 months, I've only really been able to use it in the past month. For sample instruments, they're some of the best that I've used. For a "real" instrument library, they're very good. But something doesn't sound right. I don't know if it's the PLAY engine, my computer specs, or something I'm doing wrong, but I just can't quite get it to sound right. Then again, listen to "The Crimson Depths". I believe that was mostly done with EWQL, and it sounds bloody fantastic (even the OverClocked ReMix team thinks so:

)

Here's one of my piano solos:

I hate to destroy the illusion, but that piece wasn't done with a real piano: It was done with QL Pianos. While I consider it "finished", I can't shake the feeling that something sounds off. Without the "Room" microphones, the piece felt bare. With the "room" microphones though, it doesn't sound as clear as a real piano. If anyone has some advice, I'd love to hear it.

In the end, I think if you take your time with the EWQL libraries, you'll have some phenomenal sounding libraries on your hand. Look at The Crimson Depths. Just be prepared to work on it: It took me a few weeks to work through the PLAY engine's quirks.

Now, I don't own Kontakt. However, from looking at the demos they have some fantastic synthesizers. They also provide plenty of options for mixing the tracks themselves. Finally, they offer expansion: There are several third party libraries that require the Kontakt Player. One I've been eyeing in particular is the Emotional Piano. Every time I hear that library, my heart melts.

So, what should you go with? It depends on what style of music you wish to compose. As a CCC purchaser, I'm not entirely convinced. Yet, Sam's track alone shows that it CAN be brilliant. If you're needing a more "varied" library, I think Kontakt will be the better option of the two.

Here's my question for Kontakt users: What version should I get? Firstly, I own a Mac. Secondly, I really want to purchase the Emotional Piano library, but it requires Kontakt. The Logic Studio library is decent, and EWQL has some fantastic orchestral options. I'm lacking in decent synthesizers though. I think I'm edging towards the Komplete Edition (not the Ultimate Edition). It seems to include a good balance of everything.

Blimey that was a long post.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Pyro Paper Planes

[Nabeel Ansari]

Here's my question for Kontakt users: What version should I get? Firstly, I own a Mac. Secondly, I really want to purchase the Emotional Piano library, but it requires Kontakt. The Logic Studio library is decent, and EWQL has some fantastic orchestral options. I'm lacking in decent synthesizers though. I think I'm edging towards the Komplete Edition (not the Ultimate Edition). It seems to include a good balance of everything.

Blimey that was a long post.

You're kind of misunderstanding here.

Kontakt is a software sampler. Komplete is a bundle of different products and it includes Kontakt with some other stuff that works in Kontakt.

If you want synthesizers, buy Komplete, sure, but don't expect to be using Kontakt at all. The sampled synths in there are kind of crap, only a few good patches. Stuff like Massive, Reaktor, Absynth, and FM8 are the synthesizers that come included in Komplete. But they aren't any way related to Kontakt.

There's only one version of Kontakt you can buy. That's Kontakt 4, soon to be Kontakt 5. It comes with a decent stock library, but at $400 you're better off buying Komplete and getting all the stuff that ISN'T Kontakt related. You said you're lacking decent synthesizers; Kontakt isn't what you're looking for. Ultimate edition is just more sample libraries for Kontakt, which isn't what you're lookin for. You want synths.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Neblix

[Pyro Paper Planes]

You're kind of misunderstanding here.

Kontakt is a software sampler. Komplete is a bundle of different products and it includes Kontakt with some other stuff that works in Kontakt.

If you want synthesizers, buy Komplete, sure, but don't expect to be using Kontakt at all. The sampled synths in there are kind of crap, only a few good patches. Stuff like Massive, Reaktor, Absynth, and FM8 are the synthesizers that come included in Komplete. But they aren't any way related to Kontakt.

There's only one version of Kontakt you can buy. That's Kontakt 4, soon to be Kontakt 5. It comes with a decent stock library, but at $400 you're better off buying Komplete and getting all the stuff that ISN'T Kontakt related. You said you're lacking decent synthesizers; Kontakt isn't what you're looking for. Ultimate edition is just more sample libraries for Kontakt, which isn't what you're lookin for. You want synths.

I should have took more time to describe Kontakt, as that's pretty much what I meant.

Emotional Piano REQUIRES a paid version of Kontakt... I think. AKA:

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kontakt-5/

(For reference: http://www.soundiron.com/instruments/pianos/emotional-piano/)

So my question is, should I go ahead and spend the extra $160 for the Komplete version (AKA $399 vs $559)? Or just stick with the base version for Emotional Piano, and look elsewhere for synthesizers? And what other synthesizers would you recommend in its place?

Edited August 22, 2011 by Pyro Paper Planes

[dannthr]

Yes, the cumulative value of all the products included in Komplete is kind of ridiculous.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I should have took more time to describe Kontakt, as that's pretty much what I meant.

Emotional Piano REQUIRES a paid version of Kontakt... I think. AKA:

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kontakt-5/

(For reference: http://www.soundiron.com/instruments/pianos/emotional-piano/)

So my question is, should I go ahead and spend the extra $160 for the Komplete version (AKA $399 vs $559)? Or just stick with the base version for Emotional Piano, and look elsewhere for synthesizers? And what other synthesizers would you recommend in its place?

Do not buy Kontakt if you're willing to pay full price, that's just an awful investment. Go up to Komplete to get the synthesizers that you want in addition to also being able to get Emotional Piano and other awesome sample libraries.

As for a synth other than Native Instruments' flagships, Zebra 2 is very powerful, though it's $200. The total value of getting Zebra and Kontakt is much much MUCH less than buying the Komplete tank, so if you want synths, get komplete. Don't bother paying $560 either. Buy it for $500 on amazon or something. Buying from Native Instruments web site is borderline wallet torture unless they have their 50% off every single thing except Komplete black friday sale.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Neblix

[Rozovian]

Long post short: get Komplete.

You get a variety of different synths there, along with Kontakt. Unless you know exactly what you need and know where you can find that for less, you can't go wrong with Komplete. I use Absynth or FM8 in every other track I make these days.

Tho you can still do loads with Logic's own synth. I use the ES1 for bass sometimes, ES2 for pads if I wanna automate them a lot. EFM1's interface might be a bit weird, but you get your feet wet in FM synthesis there. If you've got the full version, you should also have Sculpture, which means you've got a physical modeling synths for more organic sounds. Ultrabeat is a fairly lightweight drum synth/sampler, which also comes in handy when I don't need all the options Battery (it's in Komplete) has. just saying.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Rozovian

[Pyro Paper Planes]

Here are a few examples of genres I want to create:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud663-0durU

I'm essentially lacking in synthesizers and "good" percussion (snare hits, etc). Finally, I hope to add to my QL Pianos library by getting ahold of Emotional Piano.

I'm wondering if Komplete will be able to do any of that. Am I rushing things? Am I just not spending enough time with the Logic synthesizers? I might be better off getting something like Omnisphere.

Thanks for your time. Sorry for asking multiple times, I just want to be sure in my purchase...

[Nabeel Ansari]

Here are a few examples of genres I want to create:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud663-0durU

I'm essentially lacking in synthesizers and "good" percussion (snare hits, etc). Finally, I hope to add to my QL Pianos library by getting ahold of Emotional Piano.

I'm wondering if Komplete will be able to do any of that. Am I rushing things? Am I just not spending enough time with the Logic synthesizers? I might be better off getting something like Omnisphere.

Thanks for your time. Sorry for asking multiple times, I just want to be sure in my purchase...

Komplete is a delicious choice for that kind of music, and so is Omnisphere. The way I see it is, Omnisphere has MORE OF what you're looking for, while Komplete has what you're looking for and a bunch of stuff you might NOT be looking for.