*NO* Tales of Phantasia 'At the End of a Long Journey'

[djpretzel]

Email sub file Tales_Of_Phantasia_AtTheEndOfALongJourney_OC_ReMix.mp3

ReMixer Name: LunarHeartHeaven

Real Name: Dan Johansen

lunarheartheaven@yahoo.com

Website: (in progress)

Site ID: LunarHeart

Game Name: Tales Of Phantasia / Tales Of Symphonia

My Title: At The End Of A Long Journey

Original Title: Good-Bye Friends / Revival

System: SNES / Gamecube

Composer: Motoi Sakuraba

This is one of the ending tunes from Tales of Phantasia/Symphonia that I love the most, it contains memorable themes, its got alot of feel to it, more then in most games..

What I did here was to draw inspiration from Phantasias version when I made the intro, I added Double Delay piano to make it extra original and different,as the tune goes on I added violin sections to make the music progress more, changed the harp line to something more simple and feely.. as the part goes into the more extreme symphonic parts, I drew inspiration and kind of recreated Tales Of Symphonias symphony, but added extra themes with Orchestra Ensemble..

After the extreme part, I used the basic feeling of the originals, and added harp themes, added guitar theme in a kind of asian tone, it does not "track off" even though I mix a various of styles (not many) *laughs*

Under the Harp a thin line of Violin Spicatto strengtens the sound and intencity..

After this majestic part its repeat from the intro with added Violin line and "slow down"

Then I did the same kind of extreme upgrade as the first round, but I spontaniously added a full-string spicatto part that makes your head fly into a world of adventure, the added theme on the second round of spicatto may be abit recembled with Yasunori Matsudas music from Chrono Trigger, But it fits so well, it would be a shame to change it just for this reason...

The sound on this ReMiX should be top notch, if not, I have no idea what it would have been,and I bet I would disagree *laughs* maybe the guitar part is abit too sharp for some ears, but it floats as it should to me..

Equipment: A secret for the time being

But its mostly softwares, my head, my heart, my will and my Guitar *laughs*

Well.. Enjoy!! I think people would love this remixed tune as I made it alot more epic and alot more filled then the original.. it normally gets pretty dull with all those 3 minute long tunes with 2 parts repeated a numberous of times, it doesnt keep the tunes alive that way, music needs interesting turns (of course fitting to the situations the music is made for)..

PS: Im a musician on a daily basis, maybe this site need a intro tune that resembles THIS site, just an idea.. Im open to make it in that case if not you the judges do it themselves.. I think of a short piece of 10-30 seconds..

See ya

[Liontamer]

http://www.snesmusic.org/spcsets/top.rsn] - "Good-by Friends" (top-228.spc) [sNES Version]

http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/ToP_psf.rar - 228 "Good-bye Friends" [PSX Version]

Tales of Symphonia - 424 "Revival"

The sound was noticeably washed out and the strings joining in as the lead at :30 only confirmed it. Bring in the higher frequencies for some clarity. There were some very poor sounding note-to-note movements with the strings (e.g. 1:01-1:15).

I think the idea will be hit or miss with the group, but I really liked the potential behind the electric guitar being brought in from 1:30-1:58. It initially sounded like a high-pitched string which was a nice touch, though that last note at 1:57 was a sour ending for that section.

Cool tambourine stuff throughout the track by the way, but that was a BAD string swell from 2:25-2:28. Bah, more jerky-sounding string movements were there from 2:57-3:12. Cool idea for the piano as the close, though it was a bit abrupt. That's more a subjective thing, so I'm not taking off any points for that.

But what I AM taking off points for is subbing this glorified rip for the first 2:25 of the track. It was nearly the same tempo as the SPC, only the instruments were changed, some sections were shifted a little, and some relatively minor embellishments were added. It was basically the same genre and feel as the original. Lame. Dunno why you cited "Revival" as an influence aside from it being more orchestral sounding.

Obviously, you need to provide something much more interpretive next time. Work on getting better with using your samples as well by chillin' in the ReMixing forum and continue using the WIP forum for feedback, so someone there can tell you not to submit a near-violation next time.

NO

[Sam Ascher-Weiss]

Glorified rip huh? Liontamer since you claim this is a near-violation I feel I'm going to have to go out of my way to prove why it is not.

From the beginning until 0:30 the melody is played with just the bass in the strings. The strings played chords here in the original. Also there is some ornamentation in the "double delay" piano that is nowhere to be found in the original. At 0:30 the melody is repeated this time with the harp playing a counter melody not found in the original. Here's the brilliant part. He keeps any one instrument from playing chords and allows the harp, piano, melody strings and bass strings to dance around the harmonies creating a full yet open sound. At 0:53 this is continued where the high string part comes in to help flesh things out with out ever having to play a full chord on it's own. None of that is in the original. In the original the clarinet plays a standing harmony part that follows the melody around and a harp is very busy doing it's best to fill in any missing notes. Much different feel created by that.

But wait there more!! At 1:00 the mixer uses nothing but a melody doubled an octave above, a strong bass line and one harmony part combined with some effusive perscussion to create a huge sound. Where is this sort of subtlety in the original? The contrast at 1:15 works perfectly. What we feel we lose in power from the quieter dynamic is instantly compensated for by an energetic obligato figure in the harp doubled by some staccato strings. I have scoured the original yet I have been completely unable to find this obligato part. At 1:30 the obligato part is joined by more "double delay" piano and an improvisational form of the melody played by the guitar which actually does come in at first sounding like a bowed string instrument. I love that effect. I must emphasize this point again. NEVER DOES A SINGLE INSTRUMENT PLAY A FULL CHORD! That takes so much more planning to pull off properly and this mix just absolutely nails it.

Starting at 2:25 I no longer have to prove that this is not a cover because Liontamer claims that after this point it is not a glorified rip. At 2:25 the trombone in the bass and a timpani crescendo make me think it's going to break into something like what's at 1:00 but instead we get some staccato string stuff with each note sounding isolated and deliberate which is great coming out of a passage that was much more flowing. At 2:43 a third staccato string part enters. This part plays perfectly off the other two creating a full sound again while only having to use 3 instruments and never resorting to making them play chords by themselves. At 2:57 the mixer pastes the section from 1:00 and then ends with the double delay piano part by itself. I suppose this ending could have been stronger but it works reasonably well and it is not a serious enough detractor to take away from all the great stuff earlier in the piece.

The orchestration is very original in that it never has any single intrument play a chord yet the harmonies are made apparent by the interaction between the multiple parts. There is a wonderfull give and take aspect of this mix where when one musical element leaves it is replaced by something else allowing things to progress nicely from start to finish without having to just build and build and build. The sounds themselves do not bother me the way they did liontamer so I have no objection there.

YES

[Harmony]

I’ve been looking forward to reviewing this one. Dan turns out some really great original stuff and if you haven’t heard it already, stop by the WIP – Other forum to hear the cool stuff that he and others are creating on the non-remix front.

No question that some good quality samples are in play here. They could have been used a little better though. The constant attack on the strings from 1:01-1:15 sounds completely synthetic in a sea of realistic orchestral sounds. Same problems when the section is repeated. The guitar section starting at 1:30 is interesting indeed. Some stereo separation as well as more balanced levels amongst the instruments would greatly improve the clarity there.

Why was a beat skipped at 2:12? If it was intentional, I wouldn’t advise an abrupt break in a slow ¾ tune without following it up with something other than more ¾ music.

The biggest problem however is the arrangement. The instrumentation differences between the mix and the ToP “Good-Bye Friends” source are somewhat superficial. Compositionally, sections 0:00-1:00 and 1:59-2:25 are mere covers of the first part of the original. The powerful orchestral builds are present in the source and honestly the largest arrangement decision that I hear is switching to a staccato melody at some sections.

Sorry Dan but I can’t pass this one. Listening to some of your original stuff it feels like you haven’t finished this mix. From the choppy strings to the tail of the piano fade out being chopped off, I know that this doesn’t represent your best effort. The arrangement is the major killer though.

NO

[GrayLightning]

Harmony is right, Dan has a lot of neat originals that I've heard in our WIPO forums. I think he PM'd most of us to check it out? This mix is something else entirely though.

This is a fairly cut and dry decision in my book. Your arrangement is indeed better than the SNES version, but when comparing it with the superior Gamecube version, the problems manifests themselves to a greater degree.

First of all the major issue with this mix, is the arrangement. Shna is correct that there are a lot of (little) subtleties in the additions here and under the melody, but unfortunately even taking that whole into account, the arrangement here is ultra-conservative. The instrumentation, pacing, structure is fairly similar to the original, right down to the leads and sleighbells/tambourines (except the addition of the distorted guitar). Genre, rhythm alterations and compositional additions aren't really that pronounced or different for me to consider otherwise. I can see why Liontamer called it a glorified midi, but I personally would not label it as such.

Orchestration in general is pretty good, the interplay between the different instruments is good. But this was true in the original as well. The little additions you added here and there did benefit the mix. I agree with Shna that the use of single lines for the instrumentation is a plus. I do this with all my mixes either completely or to some degree. So I know first hand how it is indeed much more time consuming and usually yields more realistic results. So this is a plus, it's obvious Dan spent much more than the average time on it. Still, to another degree it's an overstated issue. I know a lot of professional orchestrators that will play the chord regardless. A lot of people in fact do this to create a thicker and richer sound. It's particularly useful in string writing to sometimes break such rules for sample/sequencing composition. But that's way too time consumming to get into here. The builds are here, but they aren't as big and rich as in the gamecube version of the theme. This needs more instrumental components and clever reverb design. That's another minor problem of the piece. A lot of the instruments sound so close to center. I would rethink your orchestral seating chart to take advantage of the stereo space. A little more reverb and more creative use of depth placement would also help give this more dimension and power, especially during the builds. I'd like to hear some more percussive elements here; snares, timpani and bass drums should be more prominent and present and would help give more drive and power especially during the crescendos. I should note I like the brass writing in this. But they were also equally well written in the original. Overall in this case, there's good understanding of a lot of orchestration concepts, though it's definitely an almost text-book approach. I would have liked to hear something more daring or different though.

I like this, it's a nice mix, but ultimately there's really not much brought to the table here in terms of personal spin, expansion, new ideas, etc. It's a straight forward arrangement with some additions here and there, with similar genre/style, pacing. One can't help but think this is a weaker interpretation of the GameCube version. Ultra-Conservative arrangement is indeed the "major killer" here. Keep at it, you show promise, but next time gotta bring your A (Arrangement) game.

NO

[danny B]

I agree with Shnabubula that technically, yes, there is a definite degree of rearrangement here. I don't share his opinion that the instrumentation/dynamics alterations are enough rearrangement to justify a yes vote. As far as I can tell, it IS very similar to the original, and even similar in sound quality. It's decently produced and there are no major glaring flaws. But this song and the original, to me, feel nearly the same. There's just higher octave strings on the ReMix.

The cut-off ending is not acceptable.

The qualities of this ReMix have been outlined in the reviews above. I agree with the NO votes on this one.

-D