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The Derrit

Guild Wars 2: 'and i thought i would go to bed after i got to level 30'

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Oh, you'll be in for a treat. This game does a lot of awesome stuff other MMOs don't do.

Well I knew that much. Guess I just don't know enough of the awesome little details!

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so i might be the only one who feels this way but this game honestly doesn't excite me as much as the inital idea did.

i really liked guild wars one because of the co op campaign feel it had. and then even despite that, you could still go out solo exploring and feel a sense of freedom, like diablo crossed with metroid a little bit. it had all the trappings to be as much of an mmo as you wanted it to be, but it also let you go it on your own if you wanted to. and having quests the way they were, gaining skills and building a proper set felt really good. i had a hexes necromancer that slowed and degened everyone in the area, and even though it was a niche thing it was satisfying to be able to specialize in it so heavily.

with guild wars 2 a lot of that's gone. it feels like a traditional mmo with looser party mechanics, and all of the classes i've played have felt sadly similar. the idea of having everyone be able to do everything is cool until you realize it means no one has any standout differences. i haven't touched on engineer yet and i'm sure other classes i haven't played do neat things too but if everyone can do the same kind of stuff and the level cap is low, where will the competitive balance go? also while there are still story instances they make a point to blend them in with everything else so it doesn't feel like you're instanced. it's a lot less '3d dungeon crawler' and a lot more mmo-style 'do quests and grind gear,' which really isn't as fun.

someone throw in a counterpoint that i can sink my teeth into i really want to like this game

Edited by The Derrit

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PvP. Given that was a very large focus in the original, and will continue to be so in this, that's where a large part of the continued play value will come from. Yeah, I'd agree it's not the same feel as GW1, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And while the classes may see similar, I do still see a lot of uniqueness in each, mostly in how they handle the use of their skills. I noticed that each class has one or two core mechanic that's shared with only a couple other classes, if any. The Mantras used by the Mesmer, the Marks of Necromancers, the Conjures of Elementalists, etc. If anything, they seem to rely on different mechanics for each class, instead of vastly different effects. A lot of this is likely for simplicity's sake, since it's easier to define and learn a standard set of conditions than to need to explain how each individual skill works. It does mean that, indeed, each class is going to be applying similar effects. However, I think that's also something they're trying to mitigate somewhat through the combo system, where it pays to each be filling a different role. Just because the roles aren't set doesn't mean each player won't adapt their role to fit their style of play.

That's my take on it, anyway. No, it's not the savior of MMOs, but it is leaps and bounds forward in many areas that, until now, have been simply considered the norm by hundreds of MMOs, both Korean and American. Whether it fills its role as a proper successor to GW1 is yet to be seen, but I'm certainly seeing a lot of the foundation shining through.

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PvP. Given that was a very large focus in the original, and will continue to be so in this, that's where a large part of the continued play value will come from. Yeah, I'd agree it's not the same feel as GW1, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And while the classes may see similar, I do still see a lot of uniqueness in each, mostly in how they handle the use of their skills. I noticed that each class has one or two core mechanic that's shared with only a couple other classes, if any. The Mantras used by the Mesmer, the Marks of Necromancers, the Conjures of Elementalists, etc. If anything, they seem to rely on different mechanics for each class, instead of vastly different effects. A lot of this is likely for simplicity's sake, since it's easier to define and learn a standard set of conditions than to need to explain how each individual skill works. It does mean that, indeed, each class is going to be applying similar effects. However, I think that's also something they're trying to mitigate somewhat through the combo system, where it pays to each be filling a different role. Just because the roles aren't set doesn't mean each player won't adapt their role to fit their style of play.

That's my take on it, anyway. No, it's not the savior of MMOs, but it is leaps and bounds forward in many areas that, until now, have been simply considered the norm by hundreds of MMOs, both Korean and American. Whether it fills its role as a proper successor to GW1 is yet to be seen, but I'm certainly seeing a lot of the foundation shining through.

i think my issue is that it's now a full-on mmo instead of a massively online roleplaying experience. the difference being that an mmo has grinds and and limited-but-necessary partying, and a distinct feeling of *not being a unique character within the game world*. they start you off by being like 'oh hey you're that guy who did the thing you're kinda famous around here!' but then so is literally every other person wandering around that you see. you instance into a story mission and when you get instanced out you watch 5 other people run by to save the day the exact same way that you just did.

in guild wars 1 the focus was on being able to quest for more skills or gold to craft what you needed, and then a long, story driven cooperative campaign that made your position in the game unique. when you instanced, you really went and your party was the group of people saving the world. it was more linear diablo in 3d land than it was world of warcraft.

what guild wars 2 has become to me is a nintendo mmo, an mmo for the people who don't like mmo elements. the same way smash brothers has been made into the fighting game for people who don't like fighting games, the same way the metroid prime series were made into the shooters for people who don't like shooting games, the way several (but certainly not all) nintendo games have turned into games for people who don't like games, often taking out vital elements of a game experience to keep it from being too frustrating for the casual or uninformed.

i think their aim was great but sadly the end result is an mmo that feels shallow. pvp will be fun i'm sure they've got some really cool ideas lined up but the actual game itself doesn't seem to have enough mechanical meat to it to hold up long term.

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I disagree on just about every point you made, but I won't bother arguing. You don't like it, you don't like it.

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and having quests the way they were, gaining skills and building a proper set felt really good. i had a hexes necromancer that slowed and degened everyone in the area, and even though it was a niche thing it was satisfying to be able to specialize in it so heavily.

with guild wars 2 a lot of that's gone. it feels like a traditional mmo with looser party mechanics, and all of the classes i've played have felt sadly similar. the idea of having everyone be able to do everything is cool until you realize it means no one has any standout differences. i haven't touched on engineer yet and i'm sure other classes i haven't played do neat things too but if everyone can do the same kind of stuff and the level cap is low, where will the competitive balance go?

It sounds to me like you've only played a few professions and only a few levels of each. I mean, there is plenty of room for specialization as you continue to progress to level 80 (Is that really considered a low level cap, or were you unaware that 80 is the max?). With the ability to customize and rearrange weapon sets, utility skills, attributes and traits, gear, sigils, and runes, you've got more than enough room to specialize in certain aspects and playstyles. I've played a Mesmer (level 33), Guardian (level 7), and a Ranger (level 9). The Guardian and Ranger feel the most similar right now due to the fact that they're still so low level, but even just swapping around weapons gives them a largely different feel. Even so, I've already found very distinct differences in how they go about creating certain effects, and how strong they are in the different aspects of control, support, and damage.

By the end of the last stress test, my ranger was set to be all about spreading around conditions. The shortbow bleeds enemies when you're to the side or behind them, and can also put stacks of poison on the opponent (or opponents depending on range). On top of that, my sharpening stone utility allows me to apply bleed on my next 5 attacks, so even when my opponent faces me, I can keep the bleed on, and my pet devourer can be signaled to place down a field of poison that I can shoot through to continue stacking poison on my enemies. And this is with a level 9 Ranger with only one utility skill slot unlocked. It was also a way different feel and style of play from both my Mesmer and Guardian who really don't seem to have a lot in the way of conditioning enemies to that degree.

i think my issue is that it's now a full-on mmo instead of a massively online roleplaying experience. the difference being that an mmo has grinds and and limited-but-necessary partying, and a distinct feeling of *not being a unique character within the game world*. they start you off by being like 'oh hey you're that guy who did the thing you're kinda famous around here!' but then so is literally every other person wandering around that you see. you instance into a story mission and when you get instanced out you watch 5 other people run by to save the day the exact same way that you just did.

If you don't like that aspect of it, that's perfectly fine, but there is really no way to make everyone's experience entirely unique. Yes, those other people running over that way may have done the same thing you just did, but even Guild Wars had that. As soon as you go into any outpost you're surrounded by people who very likely just did a mission or quest that you're about to go on, or that you just completed yourself.

I actually feel like GW2 handles this even better than the original because dynamic events will behave differently as they chain from one to the next, or as they interact with other events. Not to mention meta events that seem to happen rarely and change huge chunks of the map. Due to how frequent or infrequent an event is set to be, or what actually triggers it, there may be events that only a small handful (relatively speaking) of people have ever experienced. Within two weekends and two stress tests, I've yet to see the shadow behemoth, nor have I experienced a good number of events in the other races' areas. Even the personal story is branched—and from the get-go—to give you a lot of variety in how the story will play out. My story was entirely different from the one my friend played through even though we were both playing human characters.

Guild Wars 2 certainly has a few problems here and there, but I don't feel like this is one.

Overall it sounds to me like this just isn't your kind of game. And that's totally acceptable. Just because a huge amount of people are getting way too over-hyped about the game doesn't mean it's going to conform to your sense of what "the perfect game" is. Or even what a good game is. In the end, though, no one is going to be able to sway you into liking it if you're problem with it is that it's an open world MMO.... because it is an open world MMO, and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon.

Edited by Binjovi

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This isn't a meaty response by any means but here are my thoughts for having a limited time with the beta weekends and stress tests:

PvE is just as fun as the original Guild Wars with a nice spontaneous co-op. However, sometimes I want to flip a switch and have my own instance in the entire world again.

I found myself unable to complete certain events because they were out in some obscure area and no one was around. This definitely stood out in the second stress test and no one was in the starting areas.

The classes can do "everything" but not all at the same time, which is nice and allows for specialization.

The crafting system seems interesting, but I will probably end up looking for recipes online if the recipes are consistent. Though that might not be how it actually works, just my impression.

Despite the low cost of waypoints, I still felt like I was losing a lot of money using them. However I didn't read my character mail and didn't know you actually get money for completing quests through that. So this probably isn't an issue.

The world is really awesome and I love the scaling of the cities. It takes time to get places and the architecture is really beautiful and huge. It really gives a feeling of an actual city.

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It sounds to me like you've only played a few professions and only a few levels of each. I mean, there is plenty of room for specialization as you continue to progress to level 80 (Is that really considered a low level cap, or were you unaware that 80 is the max?). With the ability to customize and rearrange weapon sets, utility skills, attributes and traits, gear, sigils, and runes, you've got more than enough room to specialize in certain aspects and playstyles. I've played a Mesmer (level 33), Guardian (level 7), and a Ranger (level 9). The Guardian and Ranger feel the most similar right now due to the fact that they're still so low level, but even just swapping around weapons gives them a largely different feel. Even so, I've already found very distinct differences in how they go about creating certain effects, and how strong they are in the different aspects of control, support, and damage.

By the end of the last stress test, my ranger was set to be all about spreading around conditions. The shortbow bleeds enemies when you're to the side or behind them, and can also put stacks of poison on the opponent (or opponents depending on range). On top of that, my sharpening stone utility allows me to apply bleed on my next 5 attacks, so even when my opponent faces me, I can keep the bleed on, and my pet devourer can be signaled to place down a field of poison that I can shoot through to continue stacking poison on my enemies. And this is with a level 9 Ranger with only one utility skill slot unlocked. It was also a way different feel and style of play from both my Mesmer and Guardian who really don't seem to have a lot in the way of conditioning enemies to that degree.

If you don't like that aspect of it, that's perfectly fine, but there is really no way to make everyone's experience entirely unique. Yes, those other people running over that way may have done the same thing you just did, but even Guild Wars had that. As soon as you go into any outpost you're surrounded by people who very likely just did a mission or quest that you're about to go on, or that you just completed yourself.

I actually feel like GW2 handles this even better than the original because dynamic events will behave differently as they chain from one to the next, or as they interact with other events. Not to mention meta events that seem to happen rarely and change huge chunks of the map. Due to how frequent or infrequent an event is set to be, or what actually triggers it, there may be events that only a small handful (relatively speaking) of people have ever experienced. Within two weekends and two stress tests, I've yet to see the shadow behemoth, nor have I experienced a good number of events in the other races' areas. Even the personal story is branched—and from the get-go—to give you a lot of variety in how the story will play out. My story was entirely different from the one my friend played through even though we were both playing human characters.

Guild Wars 2 certainly has a few problems here and there, but I don't feel like this is one.

Overall it sounds to me like this just isn't your kind of game. And that's totally acceptable. Just because a huge amount of people are getting way too over-hyped about the game doesn't mean it's going to conform to your sense of what "the perfect game" is. Or even what a good game is. In the end, though, no one is going to be able to sway you into liking it if you're problem with it is that it's an open world MMO.... because it is an open world MMO, and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon.

and maybe i just haven't played enough of it to get to the meat that i'm looking for. it is just in beta after all and i didn't get *that* far. it's just my initial impression. i want it to be good though.

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18 as a necromancer and 10 as a human mage

how did you get to level 33 in 4 days? that's crazy

also as a note, regardless of how far you get the specialization options are there to be seen in the skills and equipment menus. they just ring hollow to me, you save up a couple points and buy them. i much preferred having to find someone who sold that skill, or gave it to you through a quest.

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Try to get your hands on a Guardian, Warrior, Ranger or Thief. They may give you the different feel that you're looking for. Right now, you're playing two scholar professions where the most noticeable difference in how they deal damage (for now) is one specializes in condition damage (Necromancer) while the other primarily spikes/nukes (Elementalist). While it may, I don't think trying Engineer or Mesmer will help you shake that feeling of similarity quite like those other four will.

I got to 33 over both weekend events. So essentially 5 days, give or take. Plus, it's not that difficult to level up in the game, and once you hit 30, that flat leveling curve seems to kick in. I did just about every DE I came across unless I was on my way to meet a friend, or really wanted to try something and didn't have the time. I also did a lot of crafting (over level 100 tailor), completed my available story (which seems to hand out a good deal of EXP), went exploring around the world (just the four available cities in the game will get you from level 1 to 7 by locating all the points of interest and waypoints), and gathered just about everything I came across (made a mint on the trading post). All of these things net you decent EXP and help you out in other ways as well. The crazy thing is, there's at least one guy with a level 65 (or so) character. Leveling isn't that hard when you just play the game. There are tons of things to do and you're making levels the whole way.

Yeah, the trait options are there for perusing, and some may not seem like much the way they're described (and I hear there will be more and better ones coming hopefully next BWE), but they can actually change things pretty heavily. Don't forget that you're upping your attributes for each trait point you put in too. If the trait doesn't seem like much, the attribute increase certainly helps to give you some specialization.

I also want to mention that elite skills are a blast. At least the two I got (Moa Morph and Time Warp) were. I'd recommend trying to hit 30 on a character for these alone, if you can. 30's also a nice spot to really start testing options because you actually have a lot at that point. Once you have options, it's easier to see how they affect your character's play style and specialization. So swap skills around, respec traits, switch out weapons. Hopefully the depth you're looking for will show itself a bit more prominently. Don't forget that you can also hop into the mists to temporarily unlock EVERYTHING for your character while you're there. So if you really want to play around with options, head on over and check it out next time.

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With the last beta weekend fast approaching, I thought I'd spark some more GW2 conversation by bumping this thread, and also, providing a sweet timelapse video someone did of GW2 scenery with nearly 10,000 screen shots (yes, almost TEN THOUSAND!).

Just in case anyone is wondering, the desired effect would not be the same had the person chose to just record video and speed it up.

Cheers all, and I can't wait to see some of you in 1.5 months :)

~Syllix

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OK I really can't believe no one has posted in here in over a week!!! Anyway, I finally was able to play the Asura and Sylvari classes. To my surprise, I actually didn't really care for the Sylvari, and they were my most anticipated race, and the Asura, who I had no desire to play at all since I heard about them, actually ended up being one of my favourites!! Ingenious little bastards....

Really had a blast this beta weekend although I only played a total of a few hours of the 3 days... Definitely cannot wait to get my head start on August 25th! (Server - Yaks Bend... anyone???)

Come on OCR let's hear some more GW2 chatter! Only about a month to go! More thoughts please!! :):):)

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I've been playing Thief pretty much every BWE. This weekend I mostly just did WvWvW and ending up getting to around level 20. I was using dagger/dagger or dagger/pistol for damage and then short bow for mobility. I had power to around 2100 and precision to around 2450. (2500 is capped for a stat as far as I know) I had quite a few backstab crits for 7-12k on players and a lot of 4-10k heartseekers. I pretty much blew through anyone 1v1 and did a lot of 1v3, 1v4, and 1v5s. This was mostly due to a majority of players not knowing how to play, how to spec, or buying proper gear though :P.

We were running a 5 man group with some people I used to do WoW arena with and some other friends and were having a blast.

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I'm not sure if I thought the game was fun enough to buy. I think I will buy it to play it more though becase I still feel that there is something there.

I enjoyed Necro quite a lot - so much CC and anti CC also decent sustained dmg.

Burn ticking for 700 dmg is quite good too since it can last a long time.

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Yet again I missed another beta -_- Well I'll just say while I kinda liked the theif, I feel like I'm looking for something else. I'm gonna try an engineer next time and see how it goes. Can't wait for this to come out and finally really sink into the game.

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I'm really surprised no ones talking up Gw2 around here, the final beta weekend just ended and there really isn't much being said. I shall rectify this by posting my thoughts!

I had a blast playing an Asura Elementalist. Being able to switch between the 4 elements AND 2 weapon sets at will gives them a gigantic potential list of abilities to go to for just about any situation that pops up. After playing a fair amount of TERA - The combat in Gw2 feels just as good if not better. I like that every ability seems important and impactful. There really are no 'bad abilities'. I didn't get far enough into the mechanics to really see the stat system and the perks and abilities yet, but It looks very fun to toy with.

I might be playing League Of Legends a bit too much lately, but some of the combat design really felt like it shared some similarities to that, where - instead of focusing on a core role (like damage, or tanking) you use your characters kit in an attempt to manage the situation and turn things to your favor. I died a lot, but I usually felt outplayed, never outclassed - and that's a refreshing change of pace from something like wow, where gear determines the majority of the fights. Also, the majority of the times I died, i would think to myself 'If I had switched kits and done X instead of Y - I might still be alive.' I might be calling it too early, but I honestly think Gw2 has the best PvP of any MMO i've ever played - and I've tried pretty much all of them.

I really enjoyed the overall flow of the solo questing. It never forces you in a single direction, yet kindly tells you where it might be a good idea to go next. I LOVE that you can go through entire segments of the world without doing any fighting. In the starting Asura zone, there is an area where the 'goal' is to just tinker with electronics. You *CAN* fight berserk golems and such, but there are these little tables setup where you and another player can play 'golem chess'. It's a little 3x3 grid where you can move and attack. It's basically a game within a game - and it's pretty fun, AND you get experience for it. So fun. I feel like Gw2 is taking the best parts of every MMO before it and putting it all together in a fantastic package.

All that praise aside, I do have one very big issue with the game, and it's that the game engine is incredibly unoptimized. You need DDR3 Ram and at least a quad core to run the game at a solid frame rate. I have 3 computers, and ran the game on all 3. One of them is high end, one is the middle-man, and I have a very dated one as well. The game was only really playable on the high end machine, and that's a huge shame. The graphics in Tera are much prettier, and the game runs smooth as silk on most machines, because of Unreal Engine 3. They really, really need to spend some time optimizing the game engine, because it runs like crap in its current state.

Oh - is there a server OCR people are planning on playing on?

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Oh - is there a server OCR people are planning on playing on?

Alot are on Yak's bend, but by the time I tried to get to it in the beta it was full, so I did vassburg. Hopefully it won't stick me with Vassburg and I can move to Yak's bend when the actual game is released. So pick Yak's Bend ASAP.

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I'm really surprised no ones talking up Gw2 around here, the final beta weekend just ended and there really isn't much being said. I shall rectify this by posting my thoughts!

Oh - is there a server OCR people are planning on playing on?

Did you not see my last two posts? I'm trying to spread the word as well! haha... maybe we need a new official GW2 thread... one that doesn't say "LIMITED BETA SIGNUP" hmmm.. can I make a new thread you think?

And, I'm also on Yak's Bend :)

So towards your comments on the optimization and graphics, I was able to run the game at medium settings and I have a mid-2010 iMac running bootcamp...

my graphics card is a radeon 5670... definitely considered a low end graphics card... and my framerate was nice and smooth the entire time. As far as the graphics go, I've read a bunch of different forums about people saying the love it, they hate it, compared to this, compared to that... honestly, it's just personal opinion. Guild Wars 2 is really going for that artistic painted style, where as Tera has more of that fantasy art style, so I think that's where the difference is, not so much actual graphics.

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All that praise aside, I do have one very big issue with the game, and it's that the game engine is incredibly unoptimized. You need DDR3 Ram and at least a quad core to run the game at a solid frame rate.

the game is not multithreaded, so a quad core isn't required. just a decent clock speed.

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Yak's Bend fo' life! Can't wait to hang with all you guys.

Also, as far as the graphics optimization goes, they've been working on it as the betas went. You should have seen the first one. That was lag city. I'm sure it'll run beautifully on release.

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Yak's Bend fo' life! Can't wait to hang with all you guys.

Also, as far as the graphics optimization goes, they've been working on it as the betas went. You should have seen the first one. That was lag city. I'm sure it'll run beautifully on release.

i hope so, that was my biggest issue with the game overall. i could barely run it for more than an hour or so without my computer getting dangerously hot

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