How to make this sound?

[Kanthos]

I need to have

ready to go for my church band - I'm the keyboard player. I'm still fairly new to playing around with synths, so I'm not sure how to create the sound that the keyboard player is playing right at the start of the video, the high, bright synth chords.

Could someone describe it or suggest what I might do to create the sound in my own rig?

[Rozovian]

The closest I get is a waveform that lacks its 5th, 7th, 10th, and 12th harmonic, but it's far from the specifics. Not sure if that's the waveform they started with or if it's just a snapshot of it from the wave. The hard part is getting the modulations right, the filter, any interactions between multiple oscillators...

You could ask the guy who posted on their blog about their keyboard gear.

[Kanthos]

Hmm; Larry's oriental, so he's definitely not one of the keyboard players in that video, so I didn't follow up on that before. I'll try asking him though; he can probably at least point me to the person who did make and use that sound.

[Die]

Sounds like brightness to me. Though it also has some Fantasia in it. The sounds changes from keyboard to keyboard, so you can't get the exact same sound, unless you have the same sound module, that is.

You could try a dual instrument (layering) with Fantasia and Brightness and see what you get.

[Kanthos]

That comment does me no good whatsoever since I don't know what keyboard you're referencing Even if I knew that those were presets on, say, a Korg Triton, how would I find out what they sound like individually, since I don't have a Triton on hand?

Also, the keyboard player in the video is using an Akai MPC 61 MIDI controller, so just about anything could actually trigger the sound.

[Die]

I'm not referencing any keyboard. Fantasia and Brightness are sounds from the General MIDI specification, so they're virtually in every synth on the planet.

And layering is stacking synths on top of each other to get more than one sound at the same time.

[Die]

You can try with whatever keyboard you have right now. Try those two sounds and see if they sound any similar.

Additionally, you can use a synth software, like SONAR, Cubase or FL Studio, download some VST's, like Cakewalk TTS, Dimension or Sonik Synth, and try those sounds there.

[Kanthos]

I highly doubt they're using general MIDI sounds; those aren't good quality compared to the non-GM presets, on any keyboard I've tried. My best guess, actually, is that they're using Omnisphere; there's just more to that sound than anything that can be done with basic oscillators, to my ear.

And yes, I know what layering is; I'm fairly new to making my own synth presets, not in setting up a live keyboard rig. My current rig is two keyboards and a couple other MIDI controllers running into Ableton Live; it's quite sophisticated, but gives a good balance between having all my presets chosen for each song and having the flexibility to change sounds when the band goes in a different direction or makes a last-minute set change.

[Die]

Hmmmm...

They could very well be using General MIDI sounds. General MIDI is not a synonim for low quality. General MIDI is a specification, not a sound module. That means it establishes rules to follow, like controller 1 = Modulation, 7 = Volume, 10 = Pan, etc.. It also sets the numbers for each instrument, like 1 = Grand Piano, 2 = Bright Piano, ..., 41 = Violin, 49 = Strings Ensemble, ..., 89 = Fantasia, 101 = Brightness.

Any keyboard that complies with the specification MUST use those very same instrument numbers, so that any program/VST designed to function with General MIDI works as expected. It's up to the keyboard manufacturer to decide which sounds to include in the General MIDI Bank, whether low quality or high quality.

As a side note, EWQL Colossus, one of the most acclaimed VST's out there, has a General MIDI bank to use with GM-compatible keyboards/controllers, and it has incredible sounds. For example, GM1 (Grand Piano) is a 2GB instrument sampled from a real high-quality grand piano.

Oh, and if you have a MIDI controller running Ableton Live, you can try Sonik Synth or Dimension Pro. They both have a ton of synth sounds to try. I'm pretty sure you can find something that sounds like that in them.

[Rozovian]

That's not what he means. He's looking for specifications on how to create that sound, not where in a legacy soundbank to look. You're also assuming virtual instruments all comply with GM standards for soundbanks.

I read that they're using the Alesis Micron for some synth sounds, which like its big brother should have a formant filter and a few other non-standard modules to build sounds from. The sound may well come from a single oscillator, just with a fair amount of modulations and effects. Can't say, tho.

I'm not as sure they're using Omnisphere, but there's plenty of presets to look through there, and it's probably the synth I'd use to try to create something suitable anyway.

[zircon]

What keyboard(s) are you using Kanthos?

[Kanthos]

What keyboard(s) are you using Kanthos?

My keyboards are a Roland V-Combo VR-700, that I'm using as a main controller and for organ sounds, and an M-Audio Oxygen 49 as a second controller, so I don't have to mess around with splits.

Within Ableton Live, I've got a couple instances of Kontakt loaded, for piano, EP, and orchestral sounds mainly, plus NI Absynth, FM8, Arturia Analog Laboratory for more authentic analog sounds, Korg Legacy M1 for the standard stuff you'd get on a Korg workstation, Sylenth, and Reason rewired in. After this Sunday's service, I'm going to add Omnisphere; I just don't want to make substantial changes like that this close to the event.

Basically, I've got more than enough options to make that kind of sound; I'm just not sure how to start, and figured I'd ask before I dig through the thousands of presets for the plugins I have loaded.

They could very well be using General MIDI sounds. General MIDI is not a synonim for low quality. General MIDI is a specification, not a sound module

Yep, I know how GM works, and I know that it doesn't automatically imply bad, but on every hardware keyboard I've used that has a GM bank (Korg TR, basically a Triton without a few features, Yamaha Motif XS, and my current Roland V-Combo VR-700), the GM sounds are virtually all worse than their non-GM counterparts. Yes, Colossus and some other software synths might be good, but nothing I'm running has a GM bank, and I'm pushing the limits on CPU and memory resources as it is, so if I add anything to my setup, it'll be Omnisphere and nothing more. Plus, I don't have any more money to spend on this.

I read that they're using the Alesis Micron

Yes; one of the other keyboard players in the video (they have 3) is using it; I think he's adding a synth bass part. You clearly see his hands off the micron right at the start, and clearly see someone else playing, so it's not the Micron, unless their keyboard players are all sending MIDI to each other's gear, and that'd be a nightmare.

The sound may well come from a single oscillator, just with a fair amount of modulations and effects. Can't say, tho.

I'm not as sure they're using Omnisphere, but there's plenty of presets to look through there, and it's probably the synth I'd use to try to create something suitable anyway.

Yeah, it might not be Omnisphere and might be something simpler; Omnisphere is definitely a lot of peoples' go-to synth, and it's talked about all the time in church music circles. Failing any other ideas, I'd start by looking through its presets to see what's close, and go from there.

[Rozovian]

I noticed the sound seems to either randomly detune the note, or use some slow vibrato effect or lfo->pitch. A clue to the sound, just not that useful compared to any filter stuff.

Yeah, it might not be Omnisphere and might be something simpler; Omnisphere is definitely a lot of peoples' go-to synth, and it's talked about all the time in church music circles. Failing any other ideas, I'd start by looking through its presets to see what's close, and go from there.

You can exclude the Dance, Electronica and High-Energy patches from Synth Poly, I just went over those and found maybe four that sound even remotely similar in timbre:

propet xpad

juno tides

fat fizz face

bite and pluck

The patch browser is a bit clunky, but at least I can command-click to select multiple categories in a list. On Mac, obviously. Dunno what you've got.

Might work to look through the Keyboards category, or even pick a similar-ish pad and shorten that. If the soundsource's attack is too long, just set the sample start a little further in. Amp envelope first, tho.

[Kanthos]

Please don't take time looking through the Omnisphere presets on my behalf, unless you really want to I can do that myself; I'd feel bad having people do things that I can do too.

[Rozovian]

I like that sound. I want it too.

[Kanthos]

Knock yourself out, then

I'd start looking too, but probably not until Monday; again, need to make it through the current service before I start preparing for next month.

[Die]

Ahhhh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said about GM.

Well, you could try with some presets like the one I mentioned, and start tweaking them to see what you get. Or you can start from scratch and play with the oscillators to try to get to it, which is much harder...

I think it's easier to tweak a little some presets. Most likely you won't get the exact same sound, but it'll be a pretty close one I guess. Omnisphere is a good place to look for synth sounds.

[PrototypeRaptor]

You're looking for a progressive house/trance pluck:

In nexus, there's a pluck called PL Combined Beauty that sounds reallllly close to this right out of the box...

http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/24010478/file.html

Some eq work and you'd definitely be close enough to fool whoever.

You can also find that sound in any number of Sylenth1 and Massive "Progressive House" packs.

[Rozovian]

You're looking for a progressive house/trance pluck:

In nexus, there's a pluck called PL Combined Beauty that sounds reallllly close to this right out of the box...

http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/24010478/file.html

Some eq work and you'd definitely be close enough to fool whoever.

You can also find that sound in any number of Sylenth1 and Massive "Progressive House" packs.

Really close. We can has details for making our own?

[anykey]

I'm not great at this, but there's definitely some LFO on the pitch of it, relatively slow attack, and it doesn't seem to have that long a release on it either (going by when he lets go of the notes)

When I first heard this I thought it was a vocoder, kinda sounds like a choir sample layered with something else, although from the responses in the thread about the group that can't be true, haha.

Maybe some chorus might help with it - it sounds very wide to me. I've been messing with sylenth but haven't bothered using the right notes so can't really do all too well, haha.

Sylenth1 should definitely be able to get very close to this though, assuming it's not using any samples.

EDIT: Scratch that, re-read the thread. I'd be willing to bet there could well be a choir sample (nexus/omnisphere/alchemy all have these) in there, especially going by the subject matter

I'm gonna be trying to get this for ages now, hah

[Kanthos]

I got something; it's not exact, but close enough to make me happy.

I made a multi in Omnisphere with:

1 - Virus JP Poly 1, Octave 0, mixed at -9.2 dB

2 - Classic PWM Polysynth, Octave 0, LPF set to 0.625, -1.62 dB

3 - Workstation Bell, Octave +1, -7.04 dB

I can't remember which patches were set to which octave, since I played around with them, so there's the settings I ended up with; other than the filter and changing the mix, that's all I did.

You might want the mix levels a bit higher. Since this is my live keyboard rig and I don't want any sound to be overpowering, I set my main piano sound to a good level and balance everything else against that, so I'm not sending too hot a signal to the main mixer. (One downside of playing in a church context is that your sound guys are often volunteers, and sometimes clueless).

I'll post an A/B against the original in the next few days.

[Kanthos]

I lied, I made one other edit.

In the Virus JP Poly 1, I muted layer B. It sounds just a bit too buzzy without doing that.