Pokemon GSC - Golden Memories - New Bark Town V.2

[jordanrooben]

Version 1:

Sources are all from Pokemon Gold: New Bark Town, Dark Cave, Dragon's Den, Kanto Gym Leader.

All the sources other than new bark town are closer to cameos than major parts of the mix.

Version 2: removed supplemental sources. New Bark Town is now the only source.

Source:

Remix: https://soundcloud.com/jordanrooben/new-bark-town

Remix V.2: https://soundcloud.com/sanus-concordis/golden-memories-v-2

Edited October 6, 2013 by jordanrooben

[Chimpazilla]

Jordan, you sure can pick the BEST sources, I love this one.

The remix is a very interesting arrangement indeed, sort of medley-ish though. I have to say the styles don't really blend well together, and the transitions are jarring and uncomfortable. The speedup is... odd. The lead at 2:35 is just... not so good. *ouch*

Most of your instrumentation has waaaaaay too much reverb, which is especially apparent in the first section, as all the instruments just bleed together into mush. I'd dial that back by a huge percentage, and high pass the reverb, too. Low end reverb usually means mud.

The kick sounds very boxy. You'll need to experiment with layering some kick sounds and then doing careful eqing and compressing to get a good, tight sound. The snare is too loud, too hissy, and just generally doesn't fit. At the end, the hats are also too loud and upfront. My offer still stands to help you with this process.

[jordanrooben]

Thanks for the advice chimp! I toned back the reverb, but it's worth noting, that the piece, as a whole has more 'verb than I usually use, but that's intentional. I put compression on the kick, which I had forgotten to do, and I like the way it sounds now. And most importantly, I revamped a huge amount of the song. Now there's only one source. It's a lot shorter, but I think it flows a lot better now.

Version 2: https://soundcloud.com/sanus-concordis/golden-memories-v-2

[timaeus222]

Seemed pretty liberal at first until 0:54, but after looking at the source more closely, it seems like you broke down the source pretty heavily. You used the bass, then the backing arp, then the melody. I'd say it sounds too liberal until 0:36, as it's really difficult to make the connection from an indistinct bass in the source. Any sort of "implied chord progression" isn't quite enough to tie in as source, IMO. It's gotta be recognizable.

Mixing seemed fine until 1:01. Now the bells somehow gained treble, maybe from some sort of de-low passing automation. It's too bright in a somewhat bad way, and it actually hurts.

At 1:14, the bass is mostly subs, and so the notes aren't extremely distinct. As a result, the section is texturally sparse, without much midrange backing other than the harpsichord-like instrument, and without much low end (non-subs) bass. The fake lead guitar is then exposed as well.

The choice of the 909 snare sticks out quite a bit. The other instrumentation asks for a more chill arrangement, so the snare is a little too powerful.

Afterwards, the brass leads at 1:23 have a fakeness in their sequencing and because of the lack of realistic articulations. The bass just then has more low end non-subs power, but it was in the middle of a section, so I didn't see it coming.

1:53 sounds really awkward texturally IMO. A guitar, a harpsichord-like instrument, a really subs-heavy bass, and loud & dry hi hats in a section where the writing suggests a breakdown or chill outtro.

Essentially, this all boils down to sound choice, spectrum emptiness, and sequencing realism.

[jordanrooben]

Version 3: https://soundcloud.com/sanus-concordis/golden-memories-3

[timaeus222]

For some reason or another, I think the production took a step back at pre-0:31. I did really like the instrumentation there earlier, and it was merely the source notes themselves that were hard to recognize.

I still stand by Kristina's and my sentiment on the snare being too powerful as a 909 at 0:32. On one hand, you have the baroque-friendly harpsichord and grungy bass, and on the other you have a snare fit for dubstep and other high energy genres. So then, which are you aiming for? Chill or high energy? Having both in one is a bit of a strange dichotomy in most cases, with this being one of the exceptions due to the drum sample choice in particular.

Drums can convey rhythm, energy, and power, among other things. The timbres you choose for your drum samples is going to have a huge impact on whether or not the overall instrumentation is cohesive. If you have ridiculously strong drum samples but the rest of the instruments don't follow suit, it is likely to sound awkward and stick out.

The kick is good in terms of the polish in the timbre, and I wouldn't mind too much if it was left as it was, but it *can* also fit in a balls-to-the-wall heavycore mix, such as in

works, so it might not really work in all sections. Edited September 10, 2013 by timaeus222

[Chimpazilla]

Jordan, do you have a new Soundcloud user name? *confused*

Whoa, this sounds like a different track altogether! It does sound much more cohesive this way, I prefer it. I dig this arrangement! The instrumentation sounds much different. Some leads are a bit too loud.

Yeah, that snare is still too loud and unfitting, and sounds overcompressed now too. The crash is too loud. I disagree with Timaeus here about the kick, it sounds very powerful and compressed which can work well in other types of tracks (and genres like DnB), but I'm not convinced that it is working here, at least not in all sections. I'd like a softer, less compressed kick all the way up to about 1:19, at that point the heavy kick can work... then back to softer at 1:28 and all the way to the end. (also at 1:28 that lead is too loud) Hats at the end are still way too loud. Turn them down, and HP them quite a bit... start around 9k Hz and see how it sounds but you only need a little bit of "tst" to sound good here.

The bass sounds... really good.

Overall Jordan, this is a humongous improvement. Balance the leads a bit better, and get the drum timbres under control, and you're on the right track I think! After all that we can start to discuss the finer points of clarifying all the sounds in the mix, eq-notching so things have their own space.

[timaeus222]

I disagree with Timaeus here about the kick, it sounds very powerful and compressed which can work well in other types of tracks (and genres like DnB), but I'm not convinced that it is working here, at least not in all sections.

Actually, that's literally what I was thinking, only I didn't write it out. xD

[Chimpazilla]

Actually, that's literally what I was thinking, only I didn't write it out. xD

Yup, THAT'S what Timaeus meant to say, it just took ME to write it out.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Chimpazilla

[jordanrooben]

Version 4: https://soundcloud.com/jordanrooben/golden-memories-v-4

Also, Kristina: I do have a new soundcloud username, but it's actually a separate account for my pseudonym that I use for releasing my own music.

[PixelPanic]

A little bit too focused in the higher ranges, even the bass has some twang, which contributes to it, and the bass doesn't have much thump power to ground the beat. There's no sizzle, so it's managed well, but it's a matter of volume. As a compliment to that, the leads are too loud, and could be served to be lowered. It was short and sweet, though, enjoyed the arrangement.

[Chimpazilla]

The bass sounds really good. Do NOT remove the twang, it is great, and without any upper end, basslines can be hard to hear. I think what you've got here is quite good.

The new kick sounds much better! Drums are better balanced overall. The claps are a touch dry but ok. Hats at the end are better. It wouldn't hurt to throw in some extra percussion here and there. Lead at 1:28 is still a bit loud.

Starting at 0:31 to 0:59, there is some overly-reverby backing stuff going on that doesn't seem to fit with the rest, melodically. Same thing from 1:48 to 1:58. Either it is written wrong, or whatever instrument you're using has too long a release, or both.

Getting there!

[Argle]

Everything sounds flat, two dimensional. I don't think the sound choices are doing you any favors. Not really a fan of the electric guitar lead. The ducking on the pad in the beginning sounds out of time. The thin clap is rather cheesy. There are places where things sound dissonant, like 0:38 and others. On the plus side, the arrangement is much more focused than the first version I listened to. IMO the sounds and mixing are hurting the arrangement.

[timaeus222]

Everything sounds flat, two dimensional. I don't think the sound choices are doing you any favors. Not really a fan of the electric guitar lead. The ducking on the pad in the beginning sounds out of time. The thin clap is rather cheesy. There are places where things sound dissonant, like 0:38 and others. On the plus side, the arrangement is much more focused than the first version I listened to. IMO the sounds and mixing are hurting the arrangement.

I agree that the pad in the beginning is off-time, and it's due to the sequencing and its amp envelope attack. The clap is thin in this context.

The sounds are still pretty basic, and only two are actually at a decently high level of quality (1:01 bells, 0:29 sweep), objectively speaking. The bass is OK, but it's definitely fake in sections where it's supposed to be a bass guitar, and better in tonal quality on the lower notes in sections such as 0:51.

There is in fact dissonance, at 0:38, 0:45 and 0:48-0:49 for example. It would help to audition chords prior to writing a section to avoid these dissonances.

Edited September 13, 2013 by timaeus222

[jordanrooben]

Version 5: https://soundcloud.com/jordanrooben/golden-memories-v-5

I added a handful of extra sounds to the mix, but if it still sounds 2 dimensional, let me know. Also, I can't help but feel that the bass is a little too powerful. Ugh. I need a different perspective.

[timaeus222]

The new beginning pad is pretty interesting, but too high in treble (the sparkliness) to sit nicely in the mix. Also, the way it's written, it sounds like a fade-in to me, rather than just a pad sound with a slow attack envelope. In other words, the fade is unnatural.

It kinda sounds like it's clipping in the intro, particularly if you listen to the cymbals. The bass is not necessarily too loud in volume, but in frequencies, yes. There's loads of low mids that could have been cut to let it sit better in the mix.

I think you could benefit from looking at basic EQ tutorials and practicing how to EQ intuitively.

Edited September 17, 2013 by timaeus222

[jordanrooben]

Version 6: https://soundcloud.com/jordanrooben/golden-memories

I EQed out some of the mids from the bass, and tweaked the levels. They sound fine, if a bit powerful, on both my headphones and speakers. How do they sound for everyone else?

I also modified the pad during the intro. Does it sound more natural now?

As for the dissonance that people have mentioned... I genuinely can't hear it. Maybe someone could help point it out.

[timaeus222]

Alright, the treble on the pad is much better, and the bass is much better as well. The pad also sounds more natural. The bass' volume is good. There's just a little overboost at 75Hz and 120Hz, but not by *that* much. Maybe 0.8~1.6dB.

I'm not entirely "sold" on the first lead sound you used (around 0:06), mainly due to the strange attack speed, but I'll live.

I also find it awkward that the reverse cymbal at 0:40 is panned, but the cymbal at 0:41 is both disconnected from it timing-wise and completely centered. I'd imagine they were intended to be related, but spatially they're in two different locations. The timing is negligible, though, in my opinion. As for its timbre, I would personally try to soften the transient (created when the drumstick hits the cymbal) by lowering the right frequency range (it tends to be near wherever the default location of the "4" band token is in FL), as the atmosphere you're going for would lead me to choose a cymbal with a softer hit sound.

I like the plinky arp in the background at 0:41, as well as the majority of the instruments in the breakdown section at 1:00.

My opinion is that 1:28~1:48 has a lead that is kind of meandering, with objectively minimal connection to the source. Half the time I didn't know what implied chord progression to imagine next, and typically a song has a somewhat predictable one, or at least a somewhat predictable implied bassline. You see, I was in jazz choir in high school, so I developed my skill in improv, which is why I can listen to a song and improvise a bassline. Long story short, if I listened to the soloed lead at 1:28~1:48 a few times and tried to improvise a bassline, it would be pretty hard.

In terms of the sequencing, in some sections it seems like many of the instruments are combined in such a way that they suggest specific atmospheres (breakdowns, high energy, half-time, etc.), but the rest of the instruments contradict that suggested atmosphere. For example, 1:00 sounds like a breakdown section, but the drums continue in a dance rhythm rather than, say, a high passed big beat rhythm, a pure hi hat rhythm, or no drums at all (which are all common but not the only possibilities), and the outtro at 1:58 could suggest a bassline with longer sustained notes rather than short/staccato notes since it's reasonable that the energy is toned down there.

Overall, the arrangement is pretty standard, but not bad at all. Texturally, it could optionally use some more detail, which some people might call "ear candy". It would seem to imply extra unnecessary/filler material, but actually, it's something that audiophiles love, and it's also something that developing audiophiles will likely love in the future. It's not necessary to add that extra level of detail, but every little bit helps.

Edited September 25, 2013 by timaeus222

[jordanrooben]

Okay, here's version 7: https://soundcloud.com/jordanrooben/golden-memories-v-7

At this point, I'm honestly running out of inspiration for this track. I'm pretty happy with it though, and while it's not as good as I might be able to make it with more work, I think I'll be listing it as *finished* soon.