Monster in the Headlights (Haunted Woods) - Diddy Kong Racing

[Neifion]

Remix: https://soundcloud.com/kekopro/monster-in-the-headlights

Source:

DKR needs some more lovin'.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Neifion
Switched to finished after mod review

[timaeus222]

Hm. I think you can heighten the creepiness of the sine wave by adding a little resonance and increasing the glide time a little.

Might just be me, but I think having staccato strings at 2:08 - 2:20 would heighten the energy more for me. To me the strings feel kind of flat playing legato behind the sine wave. I also think the drums (kick+snare+hi hats) could be stronger. They get especially buried at 3:05 - 3:39 and undermine the intended energy there. Perhaps you wanted to stick to an orchestral instrument positioning, but this feels more electronic-orchestral than orchestral to me.

Overall, I think the mixing could be cleaner in the midrange as well. I think the arrangement is great though. Interesting, not plodding, little unnecessary repetition, and great mood changes. Not too conservative.

Edited May 8, 2014 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

Hey timaeus, thanks for listening!

Yeah, I'll go ahead and raise up the drums a bit. I had intentionally kept them out of the way because I didn't want them stealing the spotlight, but certainly for the finale, they do get pretty buried.

I see where you're coming from for 2:08-2:17, though I wanted to keep it sort of low-key "boogie style" with the bass, legato strings, and theremin (that's the sine wave thingy) until the wailing strings runs and brass hit it big with the jazzy sound.

For the mix, do you mean that the mid-range is muddy? Think some EQ is in order?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Neifion

[timaeus222]

Yeah, that does sound like a theremin more than a pure sine wave, though I still stick by that portamento suggestion.

For the mix, do you mean that the mid-range is muddy? Think some EQ is in order?

It's a little minor, but the bell-like polyphonic sound at 2:20 seems a tad imbalanced with the right side (500~800Hz). At 2:43, I think the contrabasses are supposed to be doing something, but it's hard to hear (200~500Hz). Could be because you meant them to be quieter than the mallet instrument. Lastly, at 3:17, if you turn up the volume enough (though not much more than 'normal'), stuff below about 300Hz seems slightly subdued and could use more clarity, but I don't think it's technically problematic to the point where the clarity actually obscures instruments too much, IMO.

I wasn't really on my good headphones until now, though I still hear about the same things as I did earlier today. So, I guess it's more like bass and low-mids.

[Neifion]

Yeah, I had the close mics up on the vibraphone at 2:20, which increases the stereo field. I kind of like it like that, but I'll see what it's like dialed back a bit. As for the theremin slides, I'm afraid of them getting cheesy if they're any more prominent, but I'll try increasing them a little and seeing what happens.

At 2:43 the low strings are following the vibraphone in a lower octave, intended to provide a slight boomy layer underneath, so yeah, they were intended to be just a subtle accent to the forefront vibes. But I'll increase them a bit like you suggest, as I do want them heard!

The last part from 3:17 where the s*** starts to hit the fan, I can see where you're coming from. I think I know exactly what to do; the low strings staccs and the bass are fighting for some room. I'll probably clarify the strings there so that the bass can do it's nice boomy thing in peace.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Yeah, that does sound like a theremin more than a pure sine wave, though I still stick by that portamento suggestion.

It's a little minor, but the bell-like polyphonic sound at 2:20 seems a tad imbalanced with the right side (500~800Hz). At 2:43, I think the contrabasses are supposed to be doing something, but it's hard to hear (200~500Hz). Could be because you meant them to be quieter than the mallet instrument. Lastly, at 3:17, if you turn up the volume enough (though not much more than 'normal'), stuff below about 300Hz seems slightly subdued and could use more clarity, but I don't think it's technically problematic to the point where the clarity actually obscures instruments too much, IMO.

I wasn't really on my good headphones until now, though I still hear about the same things as I did earlier today. So, I guess it's more like bass and low-mids.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Neifion

[Brandon Strader]

I am prepared for the liking of remix. Very good ambient intro.

The sound design is great. That string crescendo at 1:00 could have perhaps a little more reverb on it to give it more of a natural / extended sound perhaps. Personal taste. Sounds great. At 1:37 it feels like a build-up that peters out a little until the drums come in, not sure if you could put something else in there too. *shrug*

The drums lay down a sweet surf rock vibe. 2:20 brass seems a little louder than necessary but probably only by say, 3db or so.

Definitely a theremin-type sound. If you want to go full-on theremin, you could try BTS Super Theremin VST. But this is passable and acceptable as is, no issue.

The bass seems kind of stereo separated, or at least I'm hearing it wider than what my ears tell me is appropriate. It'd be great to hear it as a more centered bass to help hold down the foundation of the song. The drums may be a LITTLE quieter than they should be, but I'd be careful raising them too much. Other things like lowering the brass will go a long way, in addition to a small drum boost, to make the foundation stronger.

This is a really great mix. Some things could stand to be a little less dry, like the higher vibraphone type sound at 2:43. Strike a nice balance between popping in natural reverbs but don't overdo it! And again, lowering the brass a little might go a long way to helping out - instead of just putting a bunch of reverb on the brass, lower it a bit, and apply a subtle reverb. I think that'd work out quite swell.

I think this is pretty solid though, it sounds on par with stuff I've seen posted or to-be-posted, just a couple small tweaks. Nice work

Just as a side note, you probably already do this, but make sure the lows on your reverb sends cut off at 800hz or higher. This'll make sure your reverb is nice and subtle, and less muddy. Not saying the song has that issue, just saying in general.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Brandon Strader

[Neifion]

Hey Brandon, thanks for the critique!

Yeah, the beginning was definitely new for me - more sound design-y than my usual stuff. I drew inspiration from various stuff like Tales from the Crypt, Are You Afraid of the Dark, Hitchcock... pretty much everything that scared the crap out of me as a kid, lol.

The bit of calm after the crescendo at 1:37 was me going for a "you're on a precipice, ready to jump to your death" sort of feeling (brought back the wind sound to try and help convey that) before "diving" into the upbeat surfy part (glad you picked up on the surf rock, btw!) Guess it maybe doesn't work as intended? I want to keep that feeling of "holding your breath" there though... any suggestions?

Thanks for the other tips as well, especially cutting the lower frequency sends to the reverb for clarity. I'll have a new version up soon!

Edited May 10, 2014 by Neifion

[Brandon Strader]

Maybe at 1:37 the wind could be wiiide stereo so you hear it in both ears, and be louder? That might help push the concept forward

I don't know if I mentioned it, but it DOES sound like you can wrangle some more volume out of the mix, maybe even without sacrificing dynamics. Just make sure you put some kind of brickwall at -.1db to prevent clipping But use your ears -- audible clipping is something you wanna listen fer.

[Neifion]

Cool, I'll try upping and widening the wind as suggested. As for the volume, the loudest parts (brass) are already pushing close to my limiter at -0.2 db. So lowering the brass a bit and cleaning up the low end could provide a bit more headroom. I'll try that!

[Neifion]

New version up, same link above! For the bass, in addition to centering it, I cleaned up the low end a bit, and I think that helped clear the mix up further..

[timaeus222]

Yeah, come to think of it, this does have the potential to be mastered louder, but I'm not gonna press you on that. However, I *will* refer you to a few references that I consider at a loudness I really like. When I listened to this, and then tried re-listening to my own stuff, suddenly it felt louder, maaaaybe by about 2 dB, so there's that for a very minor FYI.

https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/i-am-the-sentinel-credits

https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/orc-wars-opening-sequence

https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/the-black-flag

Things sound more balanced now. The melody at 2:48 - 2:52 sounds a tad strange to me though. I dunno if it's just because it's a little sparse at that textural level or if the notes are just weird. Maybe both. Though this isn't a big deal.

Hm. The mix at 3:05 immediately sounds different from previous sections. If you A/B 2:20 and 3:05, 3:05 sounds like the instrument balance is shifted towards the legato instruments, at least until 3:16. 3:16 sounds more normal to me, but 3:05 sounds odd---something's off. The dynamics there feel flatter than at 3:16, maybe due to the sequencing of the staccato articulations, or maybe due to the timing of the legato articulations. I don't think this is that big a deal, but maybe one or two judges might point it out.

That aside, I think this sounds post-able. =)

Edited May 11, 2014 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

The volume is butting up against my limiter, so I think probably the only way I can get it louder is through compression. And testing it on lower-quality speakers, there are parts that are threatening to dip everything if I make it any louder. Any suggestions on how to up the perceived volume?

2:48-2:52 (as well as the vibraphone bit immediately prior) are part of a transitional "break" from the heavy parts before and after. They're the exact same notes as 1:57 (the main chorus) as well as the source, for that matter.

2:20 and 3:05 are not the same. 2:20 is analogous to 0:23 from the source, while 3:05 is analogous to 0:32 from the source. 2:20 has the big brass, while 3:05 has no brass at all and focuses on legato mid strings and staccato low strings. It's a transition from the "break" immediately prior into the big brassy finale just after.

2:20 and 3:16, however, are analogous (notice the brass in both), though because 3:16 is the build into the finale, we get a continuation of the mid legato strings from the previous section, with some brand new energetic trumpet punctuation. So they're definitely different; the end is supposed to be bigger than the middle.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Neifion

[timaeus222]

The volume is butting up against my limiter, so I think probably the only way I can get it louder is through compression. And testing it on lower-quality speakers, there are parts that are threatening to dip everything if I make it any louder. Any suggestions on how to up the perceived volume?

Depends on what limiter you're using, but I use TLs-Pocket Limiter, which is pretty lenient on the compression. (The more lenient the compression, the more overcrowding can occur instead, but at least it doesn't sound pumpy!)

2:20 and 3:05 are not the same. 2:20 is analogous to 0:23 from the source, while 3:05 is analogous to 0:55 from the source. 2:20 has the big brass, while 3:05 has no brass at all and focuses on legato mid strings and staccato low strings. It's a transition from the "break" immediately prior into the big brassy finale just after.

2:20 and 3:16, however, are analogous (notice the brass in both), though because 3:16 is the build into the finale, we get a continuation of the mid legato strings from the previous section, with some brand new energetic trumpet punctuation. So they're definitely different; the end is supposed to be bigger than the middle.

I'm not actually implying that I thought those two sections (2:20 and 3:05) were supposed to be similar in arrangement, but I meant those as the two sections I compared in production that caused me to hear the odd, slight "deficiency" in treble.

In that case, it feels like what you intended to be the leads aren't sounding like leads to me. Might be because of their (reverb-based) positioning in the mix, but to me they don't feel as upfront as the brass. As a result, I'm perceiving the backup brass to be subdued, which is fine since you wanted the legato mid strings to be the focus, but I'm also perceiving the leads to be subdued.

These are minor things though, and this actually is sounding very cool. Technically, I think you have the chops to get posted by now.

Edited May 11, 2014 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

The strings are not meant to be as upfront as the brass (despite their normal orchestral positioning at the front). But this song is more akin to a pops orchestra (electronic stuff aside), and the brassy parts are supposed to be in-your-face, with the legato strings filling the room in the middle.

At 3:05, before the brass comes back, the strings are the focus. The legato strings and staccato strings are playing counterpoint here. At 3:16, the brass returns to play excited stabs and are more in-your-face than the strings. The strings, which carry on from 3:05, are playing counterpoint to the brass, and are strong but not so upfront. Hope I made sense here!

Thanks again for all the tips! Changing to mod review now!

Edited May 11, 2014 by Neifion

[Supercoolmike]

pretty cool way to reinterpret the song.

from 0:00- 2:20, i felt like i was listening to an alternate theme version from the show "tales from the crypt"

then from 2:21-end, its a montage of the crypt keeper having a party at that mansion.lol

[Neifion]

pretty cool way to reinterpret the song.

from 0:00- 2:20, i felt like i was listening to an alternate theme version from the show "tales from the crypt"

then from 2:21-end, its a montage of the crypt keeper having a party at that mansion.lol

Awesome, that's what I was going for! Also nice to hear that other people are familiar with Tales From the Crypt. Makes me feel not quite so old!

[XPRTNovice]

MODREVIEW

Hey there. Very cool take on this. I love the way it makes me think of Monster Bash.

- This is a personal taste thing, but the dual-panned wind SFX in the beginning that start a half second apart throws me off. I would just start them simultaneously.

- Bassoon around 0:50 sounds a little off to me. Probably the most unrealistic sound in the whole soundscape...I might consider replacing it with another instrument, or have the swells more graudal/slow rather than up and down so often.

- Pay close attention to the accented viola marcatos at 1:30 ish. Some of them feel like they're just a touch out of volume.

- Overall could use more low end support from the orchestra, prior to beat drop. it feels a little bottom-light, especially for the feel of the piece. This problem goes away at 1:45 when the beat drops, though.

- Beat drop at 1:45 felt like it could use something more...maybe a cymbal crash? It's a great moment in the piece though.

- The spooky leads are great.

- Brass hits at 2:20 confused me a bit because I couldn't tell if the trumpets and trombones were playing in unison; it sounds like the trumpets come in a little delayed. That might be fine, but do take a listen and make sure it's how you intended.

- String lead at 3:05 gets almost completely lost behind the orchestra hits that were previously brass hits at 2:20. Also, listening to the orchestra hits definitely makes me think that there's some production issue going on at 2:20 that you need to take a look at in the horns.

^^Now having read Timaeus' comments on the lead confusion, I see that I might be suffering from the same thing. You do need to decide which is the lead and make sure that comes out, because I'm having trouble figuring it out. Those stabs could be the lead, but so could the long notes behind it.

- Nice panning of the vibes on the way out. Nice vibe performance in general.

I like this piece a lot; great job with it. I think with a couple of subtle adjustments this will be an easy pass.

/MODREVIEW

[Neifion]

Hey Joe, thanks for the feedback! Just a couple questions for clarity:

The staccatos at 1:30, when you say 'touch out of volume', do you mean too loud? Too quiet? As for low end support, I think maybe layering some contrabass staccs could solve the problem. What do you think?

The brass is meant to sound like in a real pops orchestra, so yeah, they're not supposed to be 100% tight in their timing.

3:05 has legato violas doing one counterpoint, with staccato cellos doing the other counterpoint (aka the 'orchestral hits', mimicking what the brass was doing at 2:20, as you said). You said that the legato violas (what I assume you mean by "string lead") get buried underneath the cello staccatos, which sounds to me like the cello staccatos are currently the lead. But you said that neither seems to be currently taking the lead.

I think the best solution may be just to remove the cello staccatos. They're pretty redundant anyway; just reiterating what the brass does before and after, while the legato violas introduce a new portion of the source.

Also, could you be more specific about the production issue at 2:20 with the brass?

Thanks again for all your help!

[Neifion]

Based on your guys' feedback, I've got a new version up! Same link as before.

Changes:

- Employed a new limiter to bring the entire mix up 2 db

- Improved the overall clarity of the mix by taming trouble frequencies in the low-mid region, particularly around 400 Hz

- Fixed the panning offset of the wind FX at the beginning

- Smoothed the dynamics of the bass clarinet at 0:50

- Slightly boldened the low end of the orchestra prior to the beat drop

- Tightened up the trumpet staccatos starting at 2:20

- Adjusted the mix of the strings at 3:05 so that the legato violas are more prominent, while the staccato cellos have been toned down, to give a clearer sense of which is the lead

Just to make sure the improvements are on track, I'm going to switch back to Mod Review. Thanks for the tips everyone!

[timaeus222]

- Improved the overall clarity of the mix by taming trouble frequencies in the low-mid region, particularly around 400 Hz

Might have been this edit, but the bass sounds clearer, especially at 2:11 and 3:07! At least at 2:11, I can hear every harmony! The violas at 3:07 sound more like the lead now to me, but maybe trying them one octave above that couldn't hurt, just to juggle your options and see what you like better.

Edited May 21, 2014 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

Might have been this edit, but the bass sounds clearer, especially at 2:11 and 3:07! At least at 2:11, I can hear every harmony! The violas at 3:07 sound more like the lead now to me, but maybe trying them one octave above that couldn't hurt, just to juggle your options and see what you like better.

Thanks timaeus. Yeah, I actually tried the violas an octave higher but their energy was too high too soon coming off the mellow theremin and bass just prior, which is why I save the octave jump for the next section at 3:19 when the brass returns.

Glad to hear the bass is coming through clearer for you; I spent an unhealthy amount of time cleaning up, so that's awesome! Thanks as well for the tip to squeeze an extra ounce of loudness via the limiter as well.

[XPRTNovice]

Hey Joe, thanks for the feedback! Just a couple questions for clarity:

The staccatos at 1:30, when you say 'touch out of volume', do you mean too loud? Too quiet? As for low end support, I think maybe layering some contrabass staccs could solve the problem. What do you think?

The brass is meant to sound like in a real pops orchestra, so yeah, they're not supposed to be 100% tight in their timing.

3:05 has legato violas doing one counterpoint, with staccato cellos doing the other counterpoint (aka the 'orchestral hits', mimicking what the brass was doing at 2:20, as you said). You said that the legato violas (what I assume you mean by "string lead") get buried underneath the cello staccatos, which sounds to me like the cello staccatos are currently the lead. But you said that neither seems to be currently taking the lead.

I think the best solution may be just to remove the cello staccatos. They're pretty redundant anyway; just reiterating what the brass does before and after, while the legato violas introduce a new portion of the source.

Also, could you be more specific about the production issue at 2:20 with the brass?

Thanks again for all your help!

Hey there. I don't have the song in front of me at the moment, but I'll try my best to answer these. Also, I'm not sure where this is written down, but I think you're only expected to get one Mod Review per song. I'll check on that though.

- The 1:30 staccatos' volume seems to change up and down at non-standard intervals that seems more like mistakes and humanization.

- Contrabass stabs might sound quite nice, yes! Just something to round it out a little without bringing in the mud.

- The trumpets/trombones at 2:20 sounded like they were splitting the part. It might be a trick of the ear, but to me it sounded like the trumpets dropped out in the middle of the line for maybe 2-3 notes in a way that struck me as weird. Solo those tracks, and if you don't hear anything funny, ignore the comment.

I'll check on the one-mod-review-per-song rule, because I could have sworn I read it but I can no longer find where I thought it was written.

[timaeus222]

I think it's just 'try not to "hog" a mod', but that's what I recall. Not really more than a guideline, IIRC.

[Neifion]

Hey there. I don't have the song in front of me at the moment, but I'll try my best to answer these. Also, I'm not sure where this is written down, but I think you're only expected to get one Mod Review per song. I'll check on that though.

I think it's just 'try not to "hog" a mod', but that's what I recall. Not really more than a guideline, IIRC.

I apologize if I missed the one review rule; I didn't recall from the guidelines, but I definitely don't want to be a mod hog. In any case, I think I've gotten enough feedback; thanks again for all the detailed help!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Neifion