Map Theme - Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

[motivemakesaman]

I shared one of my new videos a few weeks ago, and was encouraged to put more of my own spin on a song, and so with this song, I decided to do just that. I wanted to keep the idea of slow building the layers going, at least at first. As with last time, everything was crafted from scratch. All sequences were hand entered, no midi (other than a clock) was used.

[datfootdive]

Man everyone on this site plays piano, huh? Nice job on this. Feels retro, but modern at the same time. Very godlike. Keep it up man

[Garrett Williamson]

Sweet cover, dude! Watching the video was entertaining too. It was a good video. The solo at about 3:15 was a little weak but I love that synth. Overall, I like this. Nice going.

[motivemakesaman]

Sweet cover, dude! Watching the video was entertaining too. It was a good video. The solo at about 3:15 was a little weak but I love that synth. Overall, I like this. Nice going.

Yeah, the solo was like 70% of what I really wanted it to be, but it was late when I got to recording that part, and I was running out of time to get the video done. It was one of those, "its not horrible, lets just go for it." It was also take 10 of 15, and every one after that just went downhill, so I just went with it.

If I choose to submit this one, I will be re-recording a few parts to make it a little bit more polished.

[Soul Splint]

Love it

[timaeus222]

Hm. I thought the synth lead at 0:11 and so on was substantially drier than the piano. It's just too upfront for me. Needs more reverb and a very slight volume drop (0.4~0.8dB). At 0:34, the bass could have had a slightly lower cutoff to make the piano sound less lofi when it's really just more distant than the bass.

The mixing later on sounds pretty cramped IMO, and I think it can have some notch EQ and scooping EQ on backing parts to let the leading and percussive parts breathe more and come through more cleanly. A general rule of thumb I follow is that if I can hear every note or feel every harmony, the mixing is on good grounds. Much of the instruments you are using have substantial amounts of unfiltered treble, and the chiptune drums aren't really coming through. Sidechain the kick to the bass, and it should do a little bit to help.

Also, the repeated leitmotif doesn't change that much. For OCR, you'd need more interpretation for a pass. Much of this sounds just like a looped exact transcription of the melody with some development to the layers. Overall, I think this sounds too much like a cover. Arrangement needs more personalization with more differences in the melodic contour and rhythm and less repetition. Production should be more apparent (it just doesn't feel like there was much mixing at all in this, just nice sound selection that just happens to fit decently without mixing).

[motivemakesaman]

Hm. I thought the synth lead at 0:11 and so on was substantially drier than the piano. It's just too upfront for me. Needs more reverb and a very slight volume drop (0.4~0.8dB). At 0:34, the bass could have had a slightly lower cutoff to make the piano sound less lofi when it's really just more distant than the bass.

The mixing later on sounds pretty cramped IMO, and I think it can have some notch EQ and scooping EQ on backing parts to let the leading and percussive parts breathe more and come through more cleanly. A general rule of thumb I follow is that if I can hear every note or feel every harmony, the mixing is on good grounds. Much of the instruments you are using have substantial amounts of unfiltered treble, and the chiptune drums aren't really coming through. Sidechain the kick to the bass, and it should do a little bit to help.

Also, the repeated leitmotif doesn't change that much. For OCR, you'd need more interpretation for a pass. Much of this sounds just like a looped exact transcription of the melody with some development to the layers. Overall, I think this sounds too much like a cover. Arrangement needs more personalization with more differences in the melodic contour and rhythm and less repetition. Production should be more apparent (it just doesn't feel like there was much mixing at all in this, just nice sound selection that just happens to fit decently without mixing).

Thanks for the feedback.

I purposely left the lead dry. I really liked the way it contrasts with the other parts that are pretty thick with the layering and reverb and whatnot. As far as mixing is concerned, no doubt this song could benefit from a few sessions of more focused mixing work, but with my videos, especially given that this is, for the time being, an unpaid hobby, I have really limited time to record, mix, film, and edit each video. And, I am still really happy with the turn out. I would never post a song I am not happy to listen to. Hopefully in the future I be able to transition into working on my art full time, and then I will be able to give my videos the time they deserve, but until then, I am still happy with the way they turn out.

Also, just wanted to say that this has a lot of mixing and mastering going on. It was definitely not a case of things fitting nicely without mixing. And as far as production is concerned, I have to disagree with you. I think production should not be apparent. It should be that translucent layer that brings everything together, without being noticed. I am a very natural, keep the mistakes to make it sound human, kind of guy...so my philosophies of mixing kind of line up with that.

All that being said, I can also freely admit I can always learn, and I agree that there are things (especially in bringing out drum tracks) that I can work on in the future.

Finally, I feel like my disconnect with what OCR is looking for (at least what I have been told in my two posts I have made thus far) comes from both my background and my personal musical interests. I have never done remixing, like ever. I have always been a physical instruments kind of guy, and got into electronic stuff only a couple years ago. This is why I use almost entirely hardware equipment, because it kind of connects my roots and training with what I am into making. All that said, this means that variation from source material is secondary to things like timbre and choice of instruments for each part. My first few VGMs are pretty much spot on the originals, and that is because I never had that urgency to deviate from the source that much. I don't have that need to separate yourself enough from the original (while still having that connection to it) that comes from the ethos of remixing. I am much more of a covers guy, and maybe that isn't quite "the thing" here. But, hopefully I am not overstepping my bounds by posting my tracks now and again. I just want to share with other lovers of the VGM scene. As far as my tastes are concerned, I am really into subtlety. Slow build post-rock is one of my favorite genres. I am all about the little changes that, over time, become big changes. I try to change things in *hopefully* powerful little ways. Like, in the first third of the song, each iteration of the theme comes with changes. Yes, there are the obvious additions of each new background track, but there are actually slight variations on the theme that repeat each time. I made them slight because I wanted the change to come gradually, and I wanted the focus of each repeat to be the new thing that was added.

Hopefully this doesn't seem too defensive. I have a tendency to scrap everything I do and take every single piece of criticism (both constructive and not) to heart, and I end up losing a big part of who I am when I do that. I know I have a lot to learn, and I definitely take what you say as helpful. I just also want to let you know my thoughts. Because there are very few things that I do without reason (although I will take full responsibility for the sloppy solo, that was merely a time crunch issue! >.<;

Thanks again for really listening and giving feedback.

-Ace (Motive Makes a Man)

Edited July 25, 2014 by motivemakesaman

[timaeus222]

Thanks for the feedback.

I purposely left the lead dry. I really liked the way it contrasts with the other parts that are pretty thick with the layering and reverb and whatnot. As far as mixing is concerned, no doubt this song could benefit from a few sessions of more focused mixing work, but with my videos, especially given that this is, for the time being, an unpaid hobby, I have really limited time to record, mix, film, and edit each video. And, I am still really happy with the turn out. I would never post a song I am not happy to listen to. Hopefully in the future I be able to transition into working on my art full time, and then I will be able to give my videos the time they deserve, but until then, I am still happy with the way they turn out.

It's good that you're happy with it, but of course you'll feel that way for the most part, because you wrote this. When someone has critiques, it helps to put aside your attachment to your music and try to see why a critic hears it a certain way. They give critiques because they hear things that are off, and hopefully not because they just want to be mean. Sometimes the critiques are opinionated, sometimes they are just true to an extent that doesn't feel as apparent to others. The lead, for me, just stuck out and basically "coated my ear palette", similar to how something that's too spicy can coat your palette in a meal and distract you from the other flavors and textures. Everything in a room, literally everything, will reverberate to some extent. Depending on the room, you might not hear it as much, but it's there somewhere. Try clapping loudly, then pausing, in a closed room in complete silence and listening for what happens when you finish the clap. The reason why I say that is because even if you, as you said, like the way the dryness contrasts with the other reverbed parts, you can still add subtle reverb just so it'll fit in a little better, because sometimes you're using synthesized sound, which doesn't always have reverb built-in. It can be as subtle as something you barely notice in an A/B comparison with reverb/no reverb. With speakers, you don't hear such a small amount of reverb as sensitively because there's already the real room's reverberation.

Also, just wanted to say that this has a lot of mixing and mastering going on. It was definitely not a case of things fitting nicely without mixing. And as far as production is concerned, I have to disagree with you. I think production should not be apparent. It should be that translucent layer that brings everything together, without being noticed. I am a very natural, keep the mistakes to make it sound human, kind of guy...so my philosophies of mixing kind of line up with that.

Yes, but I wouldn't think that right away (besides, my words were, "it just doesn't feel like there was much mixing at all in this", not "doesn't sound like there was any mixing at all"). Remember, *you* can see your project file, and *I* can't. You could have touched a lot of EQ bands and mixer faders, and it might have not really done anything substantial, but you could have touched only a few things and it might have done a lot. When I first started mixing and EQing and such, half the time I didn't know when what I was doing was actually doing something substantial.

However, with production being more apparent, it's not my opinion that says that. Yeah, you could see it a different way than I do, but it's not necessarily because I'm a different person than you are, but because you have a different audio system than I do. When production is clear, yeah, I'll say it. If I hear some muddiness issues or something else, then I'll mention it. I'm not perfect, but I'll say what I hear the way I hear it. Remember that although you are a hardware kind of guy, this is a digital audio workstation kind of era, and with that comes higher expectations. I'm not trying to be harsh here, just realistic. With the tools that you can have at your disposal, you can get a good amount of clarity with most (logical) combinations of sounds, with a certain amount of attention to detail.

For example, to me, the production

is *really* apparent, since almost every sound is clear (sometimes the low strings can get a little muddy, but this guy is really busy and had to finish this in 8 hours). And if you want, there's a walkthrough of that ReMix,

.

Finally, I feel like my disconnect with what OCR is looking for (at least what I have been told in my two posts I have made thus far) comes from both my background and my personal musical interests. I have never done remixing, like ever. I have always been a physical instruments kind of guy, and got into electronic stuff only a couple years ago. This is why I use almost entirely hardware equipment, because it kind of connects my roots and training with what I am into making. All that said, this means that variation from source material is secondary to things like timbre and choice of instruments for each part. My first few VGMs are pretty much spot on the originals, and that is because I never had that urgency to deviate from the source that much. I don't have that need to separate yourself enough from the original (while still having that connection to it) that comes from the ethos of remixing. I am much more of a covers guy, and maybe that isn't quite "the thing" here. But, hopefully I am not overstepping my bounds by posting my tracks now and again. I just want to share with other lovers of the VGM scene. As far as my tastes are concerned, I am really into subtlety. Slow build post-rock is one of my favorite genres. I am all about the little changes that, over time, become big changes. I try to change things in *hopefully* powerful little ways. Like, in the first third of the song, each iteration of the theme comes with changes. Yes, there are the obvious additions of each new background track, but there are actually slight variations on the theme that repeat each time. I made them slight because I wanted the change to come gradually, and I wanted the focus of each repeat to be the new thing that was added.

Yeah, it can be hard to force yourself to interpret VGM more substantially. Maybe you have an attachment to an OST because it's your favorite game, or maybe you just want to give it a good homage and the first way you learned how to do it was exact transcription and you want to "stick to your roots". For OCR though, yeah, in terms of interpretation this is on the lesser side, but it's not in the realm of MIDI-exact transcription. This wouldn't get direct-rejected by email. The piano chords were a nice touch, for example, to change up the harmonic complexity. I did appreciate the layering you did, but sometimes it felt like you could have taken layers out as you put more in to change it up but not mud it up. It's fine to post VGM here as much as you like (within reason; I mean, try not to post a billion WIPs in an hour ), so don't feel afraid to put more. Being in the workshop, you kinda need thick skin.

Hopefully this doesn't seem too defensive. I have a tendency to scrap everything I do and take every single piece of criticism (both constructive and not) to heart, and I end up losing a big part of who I am when I do that. I know I have a lot to learn, and I definitely take what you say as helpful. I just also want to let you know my thoughts. Because there are very few things that I do without reason (although I will take full responsibility for the sloppy solo, that was merely a time crunch issue! >.<;

Thanks again for really listening and giving feedback.

-Ace (Motive Makes a Man)

No problem. I think I started kind of like this too. Something that would help though is to not scrap everything you do, and just put it in a folder that you can go back to later and look at just for fun. Maybe you had an old idea that was really good but you didn't think so at the time you wrote it. Edited July 25, 2014 by timaeus222

[Garrett Williamson]

Dude. Motive. Never give up. People will hammer you. Timeaus is just giving you some critique and you're taking it well but I'm just saying for future reference, your username is what needs to be going on, man. Being motive and having motivation is what gets you to success.

Of course, I think Timeaus is very critical of mixes and every tiny little piece but honestly that can be a very good thing. It can be very useful to have that guy and Timeaus is that guy.

Just keep going, dude. I really like this and even if there are possibly some problems with it, I think it's got fantastic potential. I love it. Maybe not ocremix-acceptable at the moment but that's not a bad thing. OverClocked ReMix tries to be pretty broad with what they take but there still are some limitations. That's where YouTube and SoundCloud can be awesome in case OverClocked ReMix can't take it. But I think you could get this to a point where it's ocremix-acceptable if you really wanted to. Your call.

[motivemakesaman]

Dude. Motive. Never give up. People will hammer you. Timeaus is just giving you some critique and you're taking it well but I'm just saying for future reference, your username is what needs to be going on, man. Being motive and having motivation is what gets you to success.

Of course, I think Timeaus is very critical of mixes and every tiny little piece but honestly that can be a very good thing. It can be very useful to have that guy and Timeaus is that guy.

Just keep going, dude. I really like this and even if there are possibly some problems with it, I think it's got fantastic potential. I love it. Maybe not ocremix-acceptable at the moment but that's not a bad thing. OverClocked ReMix tries to be pretty broad with what they take but there still are some limitations. That's where YouTube and SoundCloud can be awesome in case OverClocked ReMix can't take it. But I think you could get this to a point where it's ocremix-acceptable if you really wanted to. Your call.

Thanks man! I plan to keep on going and my hope is that this can become something that I can live off of so that I can dedicate more time to making my videos that much more polished.

"I have a tendency to scrap everything I do and take every single piece of criticism (both constructive and not) to heart, and I end up losing a big part of who I am when I do that"

What I was trying to say (and I now realize was not well worded) was that I used to always take every single criticism completely to heart, and it ended up making me not enjoy what I made because I was so afraid of making sure I catered to every single thing people said was off to them. The effects of this were pretty intense, and it has taken me a long time to sort of, reclaim my own sound and style and whatnot. So, hopefully I don't come off as though I am just shrugging off or being overly sensitive to criticism, I am just learning that all these years of futzing (I have never had any formal training in audio engineering) around with music actually do account for something, and my opinion is actually of value.

I really think I am going to clean up this track and submit it in the future. I like the groove enough, and there are thing I definitely think need to be fixed.

Oh, and I just wanted to say, when I recorded those Microbrute parts (the lead) my left hand was reaching through a camera tripod, making sure not to knock it over, and the right hand was reaching around the tripod. Point being, when you add the video to the process, it makes everything harder. More limits (memory cards, batteries) more time, more stress. Which is why I really want to touch this up for submission (or even just for the eventual album release).

[motivemakesaman]

That Castlevania remix is TIGHT.

[Garrett Williamson]

I was so afraid of making sure I catered to every single thing people said was off to them.

Nothing's perfect, man. I wish we could please everyone but something's always gonna be off. Mixing and producing, even when I think something is as perfect as it can be for me, I finish it and then it's out there and being sold and I can't take it back and then SUDDENLY I hear at least one thing in the track I knew I could've fixed. Always. I mean, like just recently with my new album and even my singles and the remixes on this site. And then when it comes to listeners, even if the majority loves it, there will always be at least that one person who either doesn't like it or is at least bothered by something. Or there are numerous people that are bothered by various things. It's good to try and get it to a point where most people will like it how it is but there will never be that full satisfaction from literally everyone. But hey, there's nothing interesting in everyone liking everything.

[timaeus222]

What I was trying to say (and I now realize was not well worded) was that I used to always take every single criticism completely to heart, and it ended up making me not enjoy what I made because I was so afraid of making sure I catered to every single thing people said was off to them. The effects of this were pretty intense, and it has taken me a long time to sort of, reclaim my own sound and style and whatnot. So, hopefully I don't come off as though I am just shrugging off or being overly sensitive to criticism, I am just learning that all these years of futzing (I have never had any formal training in audio engineering) around with music actually do account for something, and my opinion is actually of value.

Yeah, of course your opinion matters. In fact, you can certainly decide what critiques you want to try addressing and what you would consider too minor to address. I'm just someone who picks things out for you to consider.

Oh, and I just wanted to say, when I recorded those Microbrute parts (the lead) my left hand was reaching through a camera tripod, making sure not to knock it over, and the right hand was reaching around the tripod. Point being, when you add the video to the process, it makes everything harder. More limits (memory cards, batteries) more time, more stress. Which is why I really want to touch this up for submission (or even just for the eventual album release).

Fair enough, though people who are just listening to the ReMix by itself without the video (like the judges) wouldn't know that unless you told them, and not everyone makes a video and its audio at the same time (or even a video for the audio). =P Actually, a lot of 'official' pop music videos are just lip-syncing and acted dancing with an overlayed, pre-recorded, mixed and mastered song.

(and thanks for that compliment on the Castlevania ReMix! )

Edited July 25, 2014 by timaeus222