DZComposer Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I've decided to change the focus of this thread a bit. I have decided that if I had a sequencer with Step Entry ability, I could figure out the rest of the things I need to do. So, I want to know the names of Sequencers with step entry. Thanks. ------------------------------------- Original post: Everything I have done has been done in Notation software. It makes the most musical sense to me as I tend to think of visual representation of music in that way. Every time I try a sequencer, it feels clunky and unnatural to me. Of course the easiest and most obvious thing is to "use what you're most comfortable with." Only, that presents a problem: It hampers me from being able to get the full use out of the sample libraries I am using. Most notation programs don't handle MIDI CCs beyond velocity, mod, pitch, tempo, and volume as well as sequencers and many of the libraries I find myself purchasing are dependant on other CCs to reach their full potential, such as the Garritan Jazz and Big Band library. I've tried several different notation packages. I started with NoteWorthy composer, and actually still use it quite a bit as it is nice for throwing something into MIDI very quick as it seems to have the best entry system of any notator. I've also used Overture 3 a bit. I've piddled with Finale some, but the learning curve gets in the way of my creativity. Of course Notation has other problems, such as it can sound robotic without the use of humanizers. I am aware that many sequencers have a notation entry function, but every one I have tried was far too clunky. My question is this: How should someone like me who thinks in notation use a sequencer in the most painless way possible. Note that my primary style is Orchestral. What tips do you guys offer? What's the best entry method? How do you draw-in MIDICCs without losing control of them? Also, which sequencer(s) should I look into? I'm wanting to purchase one of the big ones, such as Reason or Cubase, in the future, but I'd rather start with something more basic first before I plop several hundred bucks on one. Integrated multiple (at least 4 instuments and 4 effects) VST with ASIO support is preferred, but I can live without as I have Bidule. Oh, and please don't suggest Fruity Loops/FL Studio as I totally hate it and it hates me. Every time I touch it I have a bad expiriance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Sonar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compyfox Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I also suggest Sonar or Cubase SL (not SX). Cubase SE is just too limited in terms of functionality (also VST/VSTi usage and bouncing). Samplitude would be a tad too expensive though. Keep in mind, Sonar still has probs with native VST plugins (unless they fixed that in the latest version that that you can load it without a wrapper), and SL doesn't have notation (though I'm not sure on that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 Can you tell me about Sonar? I have no expiriance with it. For future posters: Please give me an explanation of why you recomend a sequencer. I don't mean to be pressy, but I want to make an educated desicion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylance Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I also suggest Sonar or Cubase SL (not SX). Cubase SE is just too limited in terms of functionality (also VST/VSTi usage and bouncing). Samplitude would be a tad too expensive though.Keep in mind, Sonar still has probs with native VST plugins (unless they fixed that in the latest version that that you can load it without a wrapper), and SL doesn't have notation (though I'm not sure on that). SL claims it has notation, but whenever I open it it just gives me cryptic notes rather then real notation, but I think that's a problem on my side. And why not SX? It's the one with the good notation editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compyfox Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Price issues. SX is 799,- while SL is 399,- with only a handful less features. And I prefer a sequencer, cause I can't read notation (sad but true). Also for drumprogramming and editing it's really versatile. At least in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 I've seen SX for $599 (full, not upgreade or education) on the street, which is within my budget, albiet near the limit of it. Though my question about Cubase is does it come with the required dongle or do you need to buy that sperately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compyfox Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If you buy it new, dongle included. If you upgrade from an earlier version, you need an extra dongle (which is 20bucks, unlike PACE ilok, which wants 40bucks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 It seems really silly to buy a $400-$600 program if you just want to do MIDI editing in a piano roll. I don't know, check out energyXT - it has a pretty good one. But if you didn't like FL, you won't find anything better. It's almost universally agreed upon that FL has the most powerful piano roll around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 Well, like I said, I'm not going out and buying Cubase SX tomorrow or anything. I want to learn how to properly use a sequencer before doing that. One of the reasons why I want to go there eventually is so that I can do things like mixing tracks together, working with audio and MIDI at the same time (That would be nice for that Star Fox drum corps project I'm working on), that kind of thing. Now that I think about it, I actually already have a sequencer. I grabbed Trackton 1 back when they were giving it away for free as a promotion for Tracktion 2. I forgot that I can work with MIDI in it as I only use it for layering multi-track audio and my pittiful attempts at mastering (another thing I need to work on, but that's for a different thread that I think already exsists). Though I don't know how the MIDI and input compares with other sequencers. This fact doesn't nullify this thread, though. In fact, I didn't really start this thread as a suggestion box for sequencers (thought that was part of it), but rather as a way to gather tips on how to wean myself off of notation. Piano rolls seem clunky to me for entry and my sense of tempo on fast moving lines doesn't warrant my use of direct MIDI recording. Though I guess I should ask this, as it would help me tremendously. Do any/many/most/all sequencers allow "step entry" from a keyboard onto a Piano roll? By "Step Entry" I mean selecting a duration (preferably though a PC keyboard shortcut) and then playing a note on the keyboard. Yeah, n00bish (probably even stupid ) question, but hell in the world of sequencers I am one, and truthfully, I am a bit afraid of them. Also, if someone could provide me with a link to a good guide on Tracktion 1, I would appriciate it. As I got it during the give-away time, I got no docs at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Would it be helpful if I did something like put together a video of how one might typically work with GPO and FLstudio? Like a 5-10 minute thing of writing a particular theme. That might give you a good idea of how fast note entry/editing works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compyfox Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Cubase has an awesome working step recording function, if you'e not good with playing stuff on the keyboard offhand, or simply draw the material you want. Sometimes if I'm lazy to record arps, I let them autogenerate, or play them with the step recorder as slow as I want to. Very cool function. Though it's long ago that I actually "produced" a track myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 Would it be helpful if I did something like put together a video of how one might typically work with GPO and FLstudio? Like a 5-10 minute thing of writing a particular theme. That might give you a good idea of how fast note entry/editing works. While it would be helpful, you don't have to do that. I don't want to take up your time (especailly since you're a judge) making a video for me. Sadly, Tracktion 1's MIDI seems to suck pretty bad. I guess I need to look for something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylance Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I've been messing with Cubase LE on my laptop since it came with my firepod, and it actually seems very nice. Only 8 vst slots, but if you are willing to work around that, its a cheap alternative ($100 if I remember correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Taucer Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Would it be helpful if I did something like put together a video of how one might typically work with GPO and FLstudio? Like a 5-10 minute thing of writing a particular theme. That might give you a good idea of how fast note entry/editing works. I would very much like to see something like this, as I have also been trying to upgrade from NWC to something more powerful, and am having the same issues that DZ is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineko Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Sequencer, eh? I still recommend Midi Orchestrator Plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 I would very much like to see something like this, as I have also been trying to upgrade from NWC to something more powerful, and am having the same issues that DZ is. Yay! I'm not alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I'd be happy to do it, just give me a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Is this dying already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 I've decided to change the focus of this thread a bit. I have decided that if I had a sequencer with Step Entry ability, I could figure out the rest of the things I need to do. So, I want to know the names of Sequencers with step entry. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Taucer Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Hell, I'm happy with anything as long as it's easy and it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compyfox Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Still the word "Cubase" remains in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Of course, but I want to know all of the options first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Taucer Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 And any helpful tips you can provide on how I might go about learning to use it to its full potential would be nice -- Cubase looks a hell of a lot more complex than anything I've worked with thus far. Same goes for FL and Sonar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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