Super Metroid - Vectoral Exploration (Upper Brinstar)

[APZX]

I started a few days ago on a remix of

.

 

I decided to go a bit on the more atmospheric side of things. The remix borrows heavily from the source but I found that stretching out the main chords while maintaining the original timing of other instruments makes for an almost totally different feel to the piece. I've still got a lot of work to do and I'm only on my second revision to the track right now.

 

Listen or download rev 2

Listen or download rev 3

Listen or download rev 4

Listen or download rev 7

Listen or download rev 8

Some things I know I need to work on already:

- The percussion is pretty minimal and I need to put some more variation in there; i.e. a few more individual elements and change up the patterns. *Something I noticed about the bass as well is that keeping these fairly minimal and the same adds a certain hypnotic quality I feel* **Some slight changes here mainly for accenting certain points in the first half**

- The bass while I mostly like still needs work. Right now it is Synthmaster Player but I really want to change it to something else, but that is going to necessitate building a new sound from scratch. Just not something I'm in the mood for currently. Additionally, I really need to vary the pattern a bit more. *Changed the sound up, but haven't changed the pattern. It seems kind of hypnotic keeping it the same throughout the track* **Again some slight accenting, but primarily adding some more movement as it were in the second half of the track**

- The main pads while exactly what I want I almost feel there is something else missing. Haven't figured out what yet. Thinking some pumping synth strings at certain times would be a great addition. Possibly a full on arp to add more texture. Have experimented, but nothing I've tried I really like.

- I realize there is distortion at a few points. Haven't figured out what it is and probably has more to do with the individual instruments. 

- Mix has a billion issues, but it will change quite dramatically before I'm fully done with this. Any suggestions on things to try to make it an interesting listen would be appreciated. 

- The breakdown I want to make it more unsettling, but haven't decided on how yet. Really need to ramp up the volume of that section as it goes on though. *Did some changes here and feel pretty good about it now*

 

So, yeah still long ways to go, but definitely turning out to something interesting yet. Let me know what you think.

[Slimy]

I thought the intro was rather slow and boring - even for an atmospheric piece. The first 29 seconds are just the original chords! I think it would be improved if you added more instruments to it and made it more complex, (while still keeping it subdued so that you can build it up,) and/or changed the chord structure a bit.

 

I rather liked what you have going toward the middle and end of the end of the song, despite it's WIPness. The slightly Metroid Prime style original melody over everything was a nice touch. I also like how the song got more ominous at 3:23 - it suits that part of the original song very well, though you could add more to it.

[APZX]

Slimy,

 

I know the opening is the original chords. I did say that I found taking those and stretching them created an interesting bed of sound to work with. But honestly I do agree with you on the opening which is why this next revision is entirely just working on the opening even if only slightly.

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the middle section yet. I know it still needs something, but I just haven't figured out what. However, your comment about the Metroid Prime solo did spark a change to the Intro in the form of a single instrument. Honestly, one of the longest lead lines I've written in a very long time. Not entirely sure it works the all the way through, but I don't think it is all that bad. So, with that being said I present the third revision of the track. The largest change is the inclusion of an opening lead line that goes for about 2 and half minutes.

 

Listen or Download

[timaeus222]

The intro to me sounds pretty bare. Mainly, the pad you have is pretty thin and lacking motion, and since it seems like it's supposed to be ambient/atmospheric, the lead brassy sound seems missing some reverb. Maybe some Valhalla-like reverb could work. Also, at 0:29 - 0:54, I'm pretty sure the arp is harmonically clashing with the pad (a bit). The intro, I wouldn't say is boring per se, but it's not particularly elaborate of a soundscape and feels rather empty at the moment. It starts getting more interesting at 0:58 though, but not until 1:27 does the soundscape actually seem to change that much from the first seconds.

 

The sine-wave-like sound at 2:47 is the type of detail I would be looking for; fill in that soundscape, because based on the arrangement, this feels like it's supposed to be atmospheric overall.

 

3:23 was a nice shift to a darker mood. I think a smooth, deep analog bass could work pretty well there, and it's also a place where you could really bring on the sweeping pads, glockenspiel/bells, tubular bells, etc. At 4:00 - 4:28, it's a bit personal preference, but maybe the kick could start fading in instead of starting loud, just to ease the listener back in gradually.

 

You may find these as something to be inspired by.

 

 

[APZX]

Timaeus,

 

That opening brass sound is drenched in ValhallaVintageVerb already. I mean I can put more on it. The issue I think is that you're not hearing a lot of HF information in the reverb, which is completely intentional because I find too much HF in the reverb can be as bad as excessive HF distortion. 

 

I realize that the arp is clashing with the pad & brass sound harmonically. I'm not sure if I want to keep it the way it is, fix it, or make the clashing lesser but almost more sinister like. 

 

I do like the idea of fading the kick back in during the second half of the track, but I think it might be more interesting to shelf the low end back in with just a tiny bit of volume fading. That could actually be pretty interesting. 

 

You are right that the opening isn't elaborate. Really overall the track isn't elaborate at all, and it really isn't meant to be. The thing I'm having problems with is finding which instruments that I can add that keep it sparse yet full at the same time because I want it to seem that it is sparse & is not elaborate. That is the real tricky thing to do. I mean I could go ahead and throw in another dozen or more layers to the sound no problem, but then it would turn into this dense thing that doesn't do anything interesting. I'm honestly starting to think at this point that I need to start thinking about little background FX details, as I have none right now. And I really need to change up the bass sound the more I listen to it. You say deep analog bass, huh? Hmmm, I might be able to do something with that. More things for me to consider.

[timaeus222]

Yeah, I realize this track isn't supposed to be attention-grabbing and crazy and whatnot, but intricate details to fill in the soundscape would take you a long way. Even a more complex layering to the pads would help.

[APZX]

Definitely feeling those last comments. The problem I found with small details is that if you put too many in it gets over crowded & can sound almost sporadic. It requires a light touch.

 

So, I need to take a break from this for a bit now. There are a lot of little things that I changed in revision 4. Hopefully, nothing should really "stand out" but the track should stand out a bit more if that makes any sense. More pads and some fun little effects. Still need to work on the bass. The problem is that I've been so focused on changing the macro aspects of the soundscape that I haven't really gotten to the fine details of the low end yet. I will get there at some point. 

 

Link to listen or download rev 4. 

 

Again let me know what you guys think. I'm aware that there are a multitude of issues yet with the track. I'm slowly working my way through them. It just takes time heh.

[timaeus222]

This is really coming along. Keep it up.

[APZX]

Rise from the dead my thread! RISE!

 

Right so, after some very annoying glitches with VSTs and having to rebuild the project and a super crazy hectic work schedule I have made progress on the track from Revision 4. In fact I'm on revision 7 now, but 5 & 6 were mostly the seeds to what revision 7 is. 

 

There are a ton of little changes in this one that deal primarily with how I went about started approaching the soundscape in general. There is just more going on, but in a good way. Hopefully, it is just a few elements that just help lift the track in certain spots. I'm still not 100% if I like all the changes I did. But I did finally get around to changing the bass up to something different. I also had some more play with the breakdown. 

 

I still haven't changed up the percussion patterns nor the bass patterns. However, the bass now has more movement to it thanks to some filter changes. Now, to me with all that is happening up top it doesn't really seem to get boring with the percussion or bass. They're there for foundation and hold the track constant. At least to me that is what it seems like. 

 

Listen or Download Rev 7

[APZX]

Yet another revision.

The biggest changes here deal with an alternate percussion pattern and a few new bass patterns. In the first part of the track they're mainly there for accenting transitions. In the second half they're there to help add some more movement. 

I'm just trying to decide if I've got enough in the second half or if it needs more. See, I'd like to keep the second half a bit more textural with a more pronounced & contrasted melodic nature to the first half which gets into a lot more layering and creating a denser soundscape. I want to contrast the two. The problem I'm trying to solve is whether I've accomplished this and put enough into the second half for it stand on its own.

Listen or download Revision 8

[timaeus222]

I think the biggest problem that this could have is the pacing, and I think you know that. You do have lots of subtle details though that ultimately I'm okay with the pacing for the most part. Some suggestions/observations:

- What if you added a slight filter envelope on the choir-like pad you start using in the beginning?

- Is there any way you can make the bells near 1:27 more tonal? Or are they just something textural for the background?

- The repeated bass pattern repeats a lot. That's really what I'm most concerned about. But you do have some variation on the bass in the second half which helped (for instance, near 5:10).

- How about a space-like sweep at 3:24 if you have one? One example I can think of is the one used for this track at 0:21. I heard some sort of sweep there, but I think it could be more obvious. The later instances of that sweep you have now, though, I would keep, though maybe you can thicken the tone up a bit with some slight distortion?

- 3:59 can have a transition, so some sort of long reverse can work (like a cymbal, noise sweep, etc), and whatever else you may think fits if you add that reverse.

That's all though. It's improving!

[APZX]

All right!

- What if you added a slight filter envelope on the choir-like pad you start using in the beginning?

I hadn't considered that, but at some different points I had considered doing something similar. I'll give it a go, actually what might work in a more interesting fashion is to use a shelving filter and slowly open up through the intro. I have a couple of other thoughts I could do to make it a little more interesting, but this just confirms a suspicion I had. 

- Is there any way you can make the bells near 1:27 more tonal? Or are they just something textural for the background?

They're more textural in nature, but I can make them more melodious with some layering. At least little bits and pieces that way. I have to be careful with what I add or I might find things getting to melodically dense. Most of the things I've added have been more for texture rather than melody. However, there are certain moments that come & go that I feel need something more. Perhaps giving some melody here or there will really help. 

- The repeated bass pattern repeats a lot. That's really what I'm most concerned about. But you do have some variation on the bass in the second half which helped (for instance, near 5:10).

You and me both. As you noticed I did do some switch up towards the end. I'll work on it and try and come up with some more variations. The thing is that I really don't want to overdo it either. In fact I'm finding that to be the really hard part about this. Even a small change typically has a very dramatic effect on something I didn't want it to. Another thing I'm really concerned about that you didn't mention is the perucssion. It is for the most part the exact same thing all through the track. 

- How about a space-like sweep at 3:24 if you have one? One example I can think of is the one used for this track at 0:21. I heard some sort of sweep there, but I think it could be more obvious. The later instances of that sweep you have now, though, I would keep, though maybe you can thicken the tone up a bit with some slight distortion?

I could totally do something like that. In fact I even have an idea for it. Actually this is a legitimately good idea. Though I'm gonna try and make it a bit unsettling or creepy sounding because that is the whole point of that section. But even so you've given me an idea.

- 3:59 can have a transition, so some sort of long reverse can work (like a cymbal, noise sweep, etc), and whatever else you may think fits if you add that reverse.

I did something in another track that would probably work here too. In that it builds up to almost a cacophony of sound and then drops to silence essentially. I was already starting to kind of lean this way because I feel that whole section afterwards needs something to better transition it to the end. 

Pacing is something I'm concerned about. That is part of the reason for the entire build up to the breakdown. I mean honestly I think there is good flow up the breakdown honestly. There are other issues of course with that section, but I don't feel like it has anything to do with pacing. The real problem I'm having is trying to fill out that second half with something that not only separates it from the from the first half, but also stands perfectly fine on its own. And this is where I feel the majority of the pacing issues stem from. The front half of the track flows well, but that second half doesn't flow nearly as well. 

As a quick aside. I know the mix right now has a multitude of issues, but I actually compose & mix at different stages. The overall track will sound different tonally before I'm done. Right now I'm just focused on getting the flow, instrumentation, and voicing where I want it. 

Thank you kindly sir!

[Slimy]

The lead synth at the beginning that has the melody for awhile - I think you should give it more expression, and have it swell with the song more. You could squeeze some more subtle emotion into it. And although I like it's sound, I think should should change it to a slightly different instrument at 0:58 for variety's sake. Or perhaps change the instruments earlier than that, and switch back to the original sound at 0:58.

The bass could definitely use some variation, after you hear it the first time. I don't think making it gradually more complicated will have a negative impact on the song.

I love all the new textures you added at 3:23.

At 4:36, you have a string-like instrument playing a quick chord every beat, (again.) I think the song's climax might sound more interesting and differentiated if you emphasized it with a reverby piano or something. Just for that last part. You could also try having the choir swell every other measure.

[APZX]

More expression and more subtle emotion in the opening instrument? I'm not really sure how I'm gonna do that one. I mean I can add some stronger vibrato to it, and make the filter open a bit more, but I'm kind of running out of modulation slots on it. Even with that being said I'm not sure what you mean when you say some more subtle emotion to be honest. To me it emotes more than enough. I can layer it with something else, but then I could possibly run into a problem I've had more than once when making this track, and that is it as I add more instruments I have to be careful with what I add as it may do something I don't intend for it to do. So, yeah you're gonna have to be a bit more descriptive in what you mean exactly. 

Now, I can try switching the instrument out at one point and what not. But I already tried that originally when I added it, and found it to take away what I want that lead to do. The reason I've kept that lead the same for so long is because it is meant to be singular and feel small & insignificant. I want it to be almost a beacon of venturing into the unknown. So, I can see adding some stronger vibrato to it to make it sound a bit shakier at certain points, but at others I want it to have almost an absolute resolve. 

I don't disagree about the bass either. However, the problem is I don't want it to drastically differ for the simple reason of changing it too much radically changes the way you hear the track and how the textures work. I've been working on varying it, but it isn't a fast process. 

The last one I see what you're saying and I tried a piano already at that part. I honestly didn't like it. I felt it took the track into a territory that wasn't what I wanted. I've tried other things, and I'm not actually against the choir idea. The biggest problem with that is I don't actually have any good choirs, and I'm not about to drop the money on some either because I simply don't use them often enough to warrant the money into a good library of them. If you have some suggestions of some freebies I'll gladly give them a try. However, I can experiment with some other options to give a similar kind of effect. Look I don't disagree with the notion of making the second half of the track different, and it something I'm still working on. 

[Rozovian]

Metroid!

Some of the sound design is rather simple, intro lead, bass, and snare in particular. There's also more complex sounds, creating a disparity between them. Best example of this might be around 5 minutes in, with the bass being simple and the other things more complex.

The arrangement is cool, but feels a little stretched thin. Could be a minute or two shorter (says the guy who made an 8+ minutes track for the DKC3 album). Some really cool original touches in here. 4:36 brings in some really cool original writing. Then there are parts than seem more like filler, like 4:50-5:05. Something about the sound design around there brings to mind the more lush and wet Metroid Prime tracks.

I've got two ideas for you to try, if you're interested in some experiments that might help you improve the track and your remixing in general (make sure to do this on a copy of the remix so you don't lose what you've got so far). 1 - Redo the sound design as chiptune, to make things really simple, and work on the arrangement without being distracted by the sound design. You can also try all piano (except drums, obviously), or something else to help you get at the arrangement without distractions. 2 - Disable all the effects to get at the sounds themselves, and redo the simple/complex category sounds to make things more cohesive. Then redo the mix.

Cool stuff.

[APZX]

@Rozovian

I never got to personally enjoy this wonderful game on the SNES back in the day. My first Metroid game was actually Metroid Prime. However, after playing that I went back and gave Super Metroid a go and frankly was blown away by just how good it was. Anyway, back on topic.

Thank you for noticing that I deliberately put simpler sounds against more complex ones! Going slightly off topic-ish for a moment. Something I'm trying to do with this remix is not only a remix in my own flavor of strange hard-to-define-genre electronic music, but that in my sound palette try to play on the Metroid OSTs in general or at least the ones I've played. For example the Theme of Super Metroid is a fairly dark piece with some very nice orchestral elements that are far more traditional (well as good as you can get the SNES to do orchestral stuff anyway). But then you take what I'm remixing here, Upper Brinstar, and it is kind of got this nice Electronic Vibe to it. However, compare Upper Brinstar to say Arrival on Crateria and it is a fairly stark contrast in the difference between not only the sound palettes, but also voicing of the instruments themselves. In fact the entire OST of Super Metroid is like that. Some tracks are simply heavenly in just how traditional they are, but then others are very dark and foreboding at their very core and not traditional in any sense. So, in this remix I'm also trying to pay homage to that disparity in the OST. That entire breakdown at 3:23 is inspired by darker parts of the OST as an example. Another is in the sound choice I'm using. Simple leading sounds with more complex backing & textural elements. The percussion sounds while very simple are far more organic sounding than most anything else (though they are electronic) and I'm contrasting those against far more electronic sounding instruments. I'm just glad that someone noticed it. Seriously, thank you!

I hear ya on that, but I'm gonna keep it at the length where it is. I know there are some moments where it the composition is stretched a bit thin. I really do and I'm trying to figure out ways to overcome that. Timeaus pointed out something I hadn't considered before yet, which is to use the bell texture more melodiously. Which at a few moments I think will help with filling it out some. Also, if it makes you feel any better I did a nearly 16min track before, not a remix though. I really started to get into music with Trance. As a result I'm not really against longer tracks that are more droning and repetitious. But it can't be without purpose you know?

I've tried number 1 before and it ended disastrously for me. I just don't think like that when it comes to composition. I can hear a melody and how to build upon it in different ways, but I cannot compose like that. As I start a composition I'm immediately in the sound design as that is also a part of the composition itself to me. I cannot separate the two like I can composition & mixing. Composition & sound design to me are too integral to one another to be able to separate. At least in my brain. I've tried it more than a few times and each time I never liked the finished results because they were never what I was hearing in my head before hand. Number 2 is really me separating composition & mixing. It isn't common that my final mix sounds just like compositional mix. I know this thread is supposed to have a single track in it, but as an example of this is I did a remix of Blue Fields from FFVIII. Compisitional Mix versus the Final Mix. In the composition I'm much more focused on getting instrument voicing precisely where I want things to be. I'm not really concerned if they necessarily fit together in terms of spacing, spectrum or things like that. I already do that for pretty much every track I make these days. However, for me separating out arrangement and sound design isn't something I can really do. They're just too intertwined in my brain. I know a lot people work like that, but if I hear compositions that way I immediately start hearing instruments that will fill up the track. Wow, I'm getting really long winded about this lol. But yeah number 1 just doesn't work for me for reasons that are hard to explain. Sorry  But it still is a great piece of advice for folks. 

Thank you for the listen and comments!