Creating Seamless loops for Video Games

[Schematist]

I had this issue for sometime, but I never really found a full-proof method to do this consistently. Normally I would use FL Studio and export the file as an OGG file while setting the looping mode to wrap remainder. In some cases the loop works fine and other times there would be clicking sound in the very beginning of the track. Does anyone have any idea on how to approach this?

 

Thanks in advance!

[timaeus222]

I never really had much of a workaround for this, but whenever I encountered something like this, if it was necessary, I slightly adjusted the writing of the track so that the loop point and the first second match harmonically, and adding a soft cymbal at the first second sometimes helped. Sometimes, it can also help if you automate the EQ to match at the loop point versus the beginning.

 

For example, on a render using Wrap Remainder, if the loop point has a tom creating a boomy tail, and the first seconds of the track do not contain a tom, you can automate a high pass on the toms that starts near the loop point and match that up with the beginning of the track so the boominess won't overlay with the beginning of the track and clash with the low-mids.

 

Ideally it would be great for you to find an OGG-supported audio editor (like Audacity). Then maybe if the click is fairly quick, you can either use a declicking feature or highlight the click itself and decrease its volume until it's even with the rest of the nearby milliseconds.

[MindWanderer]

I have no experience with FL Studio, but what I've done to get rid of this in other situations is to open the file in a WAV editor (e.g. Audacity) and zoom way the hell in to the waveform.  If the location and direction of the waveform at the beginning and end of the loop are exactly the same (e.g. exactly in the middle and on the way up), at least in my experience, there doesn't seem to be a click.

[Schematist]

I never really had much of a workaround for this, but whenever I encountered something like this, if it was necessary, I slightly adjusted the writing of the track so that the loop point and the first second match harmonically, and adding a soft cymbal at the first second sometimes helped. Sometimes, it can also help if you automate the EQ to match at the loop point versus the beginning.

 

Truly appreciate this! I will get to experimenting right away!

[Schematist]

I have no experience with FL Studio, but what I've done to get rid of this in other situations is to open the file in a WAV editor (e.g. Audacity) and zoom way the hell in to the waveform.  If the location and direction of the waveform at the beginning and end of the loop are exactly the same (e.g. exactly in the middle and on the way up), at least in my experience, there doesn't seem to be a click.

 

This is going to be my second option if I can't get the advice mentioned above to work. Thanks so much MindWanderer!

[Slimy]

Pffft. I make seamless loops all the time.

 

1: Export your song loop as a wav - don't cut off any reverb at the end.

2: Throw your wav into Audacity.

3: Duplicate the track.

4: Drag the second track to the end of the first one so that it loops - the two tracks should overlap a bit.

5: Copy the overlapping bit, and paste it at the end of the second track.

6: Delete that bit on both tracks.

7: Selects the part of the first track that doesn't overlap the second track

6: Delete that too.

7: Export as a wav, ogg, whatever. You're done.

 

Basically, you just took the reverb from the end of the loop, cut it out and slapped it on the beginning, and used it as a measuring stick so that it loops seamlessly.

[timaeus222]

That basically is Wrap Remainder in FL Studio; it takes the tail of the track and layers it on top of the beginning, which was causing Schematist's frustration earlier. =P

 

If the release on a sound at the loop point is long enough, and if it harmonically clashes with the first note at the beginning of the track, it'll sound pretty bad. (That has happened to me before, and I had to change my writing to accommodate for that)

 

I'll render an example of the harmony/high-pass-automation fixes I was talking about earlier.

 

EDIT:

A not-so-good loop (you can tell that there's a [minor-2nd] clash between the bass, the toms, and the chordal instrument)

A better/more acceptable loop (still has slight issues but not nearly as bad)

 

EDIT2:

Oh, and something I like to do, if you are someone who renders WAV and then encodes into OGG, is to use the tab organization feature in the Playlist window in FL, and it'll mark in the WAV where the tab is. So if you put a tab at the end of the track, that will mark where the tail starts.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I mean the thing about looping is that you're making the next part of the song the beginning of the song, so it would seem paramount that you need to write it as if the beginning of your song could go after the end of your song (or that the end of your song leads into the beginning of your song).

 

Replace all instances of "song" with "loop region" in that explanation if you're only doing a seamless loop of part of the track.

[Slimy]

That basically is Wrap Remainder in FL Studio; it takes the tail of the track and layers it on top of the beginning, which was causing Schematist's frustration earlier. =P

 

Perhaps, but I've never had any clicking/loop-is-not-quite-seamless problems using Audacity.

 

If the release on a sound at the loop point is long enough, and if it harmonically clashes with the first note at the beginning of the track, it'll sound pretty bad. (That has happened to me before, and I had to change my writing to accommodate for that)

 

That sounds like an arrangement problem, not a problem with the looping itself.

[timaeus222]

It's a looping problem, since it was done with Wrap Remainder, just like Schematist; the issue that gave the eh loop was that there was harmony clashing, even though all the notes were in the same key. It just so happened that the tail was of a clashing note, purely in terms of the interval and just the bulky tone of the toms. I didn't expect to hear this issue, and it wasn't really obvious until I created the loop and listened back.

 

(I'll add that this issue was somehow not as prevalent when I merely looped a WAV of the same track to be twice as long)

[Nabeel Ansari]

It's a looping problem, since it was done with Wrap Remainder, just like Schematist; the issue that gave the eh loop was that there was harmony clashing, even though all the notes were in the same key. It just so happened that the tail was of a clashing note, purely in terms of the interval and just the bulky tone of the toms. I didn't expect to hear this issue, and it wasn't really obvious until I created the loop and listened back.

 

(I'll add that this issue was somehow not as prevalent when I merely looped a WAV of the same track to be twice as long)

 

No, it *is* an arrangement problem. Arrangement is about voicing and harmonic direction. Looping isn't a thing that can be flawed or have problems because it's just a concept, it's the fact that the composition is irresponsible that's causing the harmony clash in the first place.

 

You can test this by copying the first part of your track and pasting it after the "end". If it clashes, it's got nothing to do with "looping", it's your writing (/production if it's resonant frequencies or poorly tuned hits). Whether you use a DAW's "loop feature" or do a manual loop, the harmonic clash will still exist. You wouldn't slap two sections of a song together without a meaningful transition or making sure they flow into each other, and checking the end of your track into the beginning is no different when it comes to looping.

 

All seamless looping does is sum the tail signal with the beginning of the track, which is no different than starting the beginning of the track right when the loop point is passed. If it clashes, it clashes. It's not anyone's fault but the composer.

 

To offer some advice, resolving a chord progression with the loop point is the standard usage in the VGM world. Every old famous game melody ever loops well because it's either staying on the same chord before and after the loop (usually the tonic), or going from V or v before the loop to the tonic after the loop. This is one of the ways of how you write a musical loop that isn't just "repeat the stuff that happened before" but rather "the stuff is continuing".

 

Finally, FL Studio's engine is poorly done, and oftentimes settings like "Wrap Remainder" simply malfunction. It's an FL-specific problem because its developer base isn't organized or efficient. If you have problems that don't seem like they make sense, chances are FL is just messing up and you should try a re-render (or doing a manual loop in another DAW or editor).

[timaeus222]

No, it *is* an arrangement problem. Arrangement is about voicing and harmonic direction. Looping isn't a thing that can be flawed or have problems because it's just a concept, it's the fact that the composition is irresponsible that's causing the harmony clash in the first place.

It stems *from* an arrangement problem, yes, but I only get a significant issue with it with Wrap Remainder. When I emulate that as I manually make a looped extension of the track, it isn't nearly as noticeable.

 

That aside, I find that if I render one OGG with Cut Remainder and then one with Wrap Remainder, then playing them in sequence makes the looping issue fairly unnoticeable, but that would require playing two files in sequence (and then playing the Wrap Remainder OGG every further time) in the programming. If it's possible for the programmer to do that for the game, I would try that.

[Nabeel Ansari]

It stems *from* an arrangement problem, but I only get a significant issue with it with Wrap Remainder. When I emulate that as I manually make a looped extension of the track, it isn't nearly as noticeable.

 

I'd attribute that to FL's inconsistency; it does some pretty weird shit sometimes. One time, rendering with wrapped remainder gave me an entire export of silence.

[Slimy]

That aside, I find that if I render one OGG with Cut Remainder and then one with Wrap Remainder, then playing them in sequence makes the looping issue fairly unnoticeable, but that would require playing two files in sequence (and then playing the Wrap Remainder OGG every further time) in the programming. If it's possible for the programmer to do that for the game, I would try that.

 

...Like I said, I've never had any problems using Audacity.

[timaeus222]

...Like I said, I've never had any problems using Audacity.

Not disagreeing with you on that. It just wasn't obvious that doing the same thing manually could turn out differently than doing Wrap Remainder.

[Slimy]

Not disagreeing with you on that. It just wasn't obvious that doing the same thing manually could turn out differently than doing Wrap Remainder.

 

I would agree - that sounds ridiculous and borderline impossible. But apparently FL is inconsistent.

[ILG924]

What about a small fade-in and fade-out in Audiacty with the wrap remainder file? I believe that click you hear is the sudden waveform change in the loop. A small enough fade in and fade out will have the waveform loop seamlessly and it's not a noticable fade if it's small enough

[timaeus222]

The Wrap Remainder file actually takes the tail of the track and pastes it onto the beginning. Even if you do a small fade and remove the click, the actual pasted part is still there, so if you have a compositional issue, you should check that first. Ironically, if you imitate the Wrap Remainder algorithm manually, it's less prominent of an issue.