*NO* Super Mario Bros. 2 "Subcon on Mushrooms"

[Emunator]

Contact Information

ReMixer name: Tab Newflax
Real name: Tobias Nylin
Email address: 
Website: https://www.tobiasnylin.com/
Userid: 2108

Submission Information

Name of game(s) arranged: Super Mario Bros. 2
Name of arrangement: Subcon on Mushrooms
Name of individual song(s) arranged: “Underworld”, “Bonus Start”, “Success”, “Failure”

Comments about the mix:
Hello! This is mainly a remix of the “Underworld” theme from Super Mario Bros. 2. Some tiny parts of the remix are also from the “Bonus Start”, “Success” and “Failure” themes of the same game.

As you might know, the original “Underworld” theme is very short, it’s only roughly 10 seconds! I always liked this song, although it’s a bit repetitive I never get tired of it. I got inspired to remix it and extend it for several minutes. The sound of the remix is mostly inspired by Infected Mushroom, and so is the name of the remix. The result ended up in a 5-minute long remix, I hope you like it!

Timestamps: Links to source songs, I will refer to these names in the timestamps:

Underworld Theme Part 1: 0:00-0:04

Underworld Theme Part 2: 0:04-0:10

Success

Bonus Start

Failure

 

0:00-0:17	Intro
0:00-0:02	Reverse lead and cymbal with sound effects from bonus game slot machine.
0:02-0:17	“Underworld Theme Part 1” both bass and lead.
0:17-0:47	Bass Section 1
0:17-0:32	“Underworld Theme Part 1 Bass”.
0:32-0:47	“Underworld Theme Part 1 Bass”, with some variation.
0:47-0:55	Break 1
0:47-0:55	“Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”.
0:55-1:26	Bass Section 2
0:55-1:26	Here the bass plays a variation of the “Underworld Theme Part 1 Lead”. Also the drums from the “Underworld Theme” starts here.
1:08-1:10	“Success”
1:23-1:26	“Success”
1:26-1:56	Build Up 1
1:26-1:41	“Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”.
1:41-1:56	This tropical-sounding instrument plays a faster variant of “Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”.
1:56-2:34	Main Section 1
1:56-2:34	Same as above but with more instruments and percussion.
2:34-3:20	Break 2
2:34-2:49	Original bassline inspired by the source.
2:49-3:04	Strings play chords that I came up with that sounded nice together with “Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”. An Arp plays a variation of these chords.
3:04-3:20	Pad plays a variation of “Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”. The piano plays a counter-melody.
3:20-3:34	Build Up 2
3:20-3:34	Pad now plays chords that I came up with that sounded nice together with “Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”.
3:34-4:12	Main Section 2
3:34-4:04	Mostly the same as “Main Section 1” except now it uses elements from “Break 2” and “Build Up 2.
4:04-4:12	Here I added some new chords, I thought they sounded familiar… turns out they sound like the "Course Clear Fanfare" from Super Mario Bros. 1.
4:12-4:26	Slowdown
4:12-4:26	Mostly the same as “Bass Section 1”.
4:26-5:16	Outro
4:26-5:04	Piano and Flute play variations of “Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead”.
5:04-5:16	“Bonus Start” and “Failure” theme morphing into a part of the “Overworld Theme” from Super Mario Bros. 1.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Liontamer
closed decision

[Chimpazilla]

Hhhmmm.  As much as I appreciate the attempt at a timestamp, I find myself rather confused and struggling hard to hear the source material clearly.  Right out of the gate, the source material is clear (first 4 seconds of underworld), but once the glitchy bass begins, I can't understand this writing as source since it is heavily interpreted.   The two iterations of "success" are clear.  From 1:26 all the way to 4:04 I'm struggling.  You are relying heavily on what you're calling "underworld part 2" as your lead writing, and listening very hard I can discern that they literally are the same notes.  I hope Larry will chime in here to say if this counts or not.  I suspect it might count, but for me, it is so heavily interpreted that I have no sense of the original source tune, and that's a dealbreaker for me personally.  I hope another J will help me clarify if this is ok.  I only begin to hear clear source use again starting at 4:04-4:25.  I like the SMB1 at the very end although I feel like the outro is too long, with the same confusing interpretation of that "underworld part 2."  

Honestly I feel like you took those few notes of "underworld part 2" and played around with them in different ways until they created something cool, while pulling away nearly 100% from the feel of the source tune.  I have done this myself, and I feel it here.

This will require a more detailed source-use breakdown.   For now, I will just comment on other aspects. 

From the beginning, I'm concerned about the mixing.  This is already a mix filled with unconventional sounds, bubbly glitching and lots of filtering, and the mixing is muddy.  Once the soundscape is really full at 1:57, I'm hearing an amalgamated wall of sound.  I can't tell leads from backing, and the bass is barely audible.  Overall, the mastering is too hot, sounding rather crispy and distorted (not in a good way) during the fullest sections.  At a minimum, this mixing will need to be addressed and cleaned up.

I like this concept, it's creative as can be, but I'm not sure there's enough source.  I am sure however that the mixing needs another pass.

NO

Edited May 3, 2022 by Chimpazilla

[MindWanderer]

I enjoyed the hell out of this!  This Deadmaus-style glitch-house is one of my favorite styles of remix, and you really nail the genre and the energy that such an arrangement should have.

Unfortunately, Kris's criticisms are dead on.  Your interpretation of the Underworld theme is a lot of fun but it's not recognizable without either a ton of imagination or a clinical evaluation of the notes used.  It's the lynchpin of the whole arrangement, and without it, I don't feel like this meets our standards for source usage.

Her comments about the mixing are correct as well.  It's muddy more often than it isn't, and some sections (like 2:26-2:33 and 4:04-4:10) are a wall of noise.  Loud, hissy sweeps and risers, and tons of competition in the mids and mid-highs, combine to make this difficult to really listen to and appreciate.

I'm glad you submitted this---it's a lot of fun, catchy as heck, and supremely original---but I don't think we can post it as-is.  I hope for your own sake you clean up the production---and it's certainly something to bear in mind for your next submission---but the source usage is still a problem for us.

NO

[Liontamer]

Really great to hear from Tobias, who I recognize from the VGMix2 days. I'll timestamp what I could make out there, but it wasn't anywhere near what Tab had laid on in his notes as the source tune connections:

:00-:46, :51-1:24, 1:30.5-1:33.5, 1:37-1:41, 1:45.5-1:49, 1:49-1:55, 2:11.5-2:24 (quiet, maybe gaps), 2:24-2:32, 2:47.5-2:49.5, 2:57.5-3:17.5, 3:27-3:34, 4:03.75-4:27, 5:03.5-5:13

Fairly generic synths to open things up, but creatively processed and within an interesting arrangement idea. Wondering how this has 2 NOs to start, but let's see. Drops off at :46, but comes back with the source melody at :55 and some nice organic-sounding beats derived from the source. Another dropoff at 1:28, and I can't tell what if anything's being referenced. Same with the line at 1:41, it doesn't sound like Mario 2, but you have the Underground backing beat from 1:49-1:55. Alright, nothing really wrong with the original section; we'll see where it goes. Arguably cluttered after more textural filler arrived at 1:56, then... OK, actually cluttered from 2:11, or, wait... damn, from 2:26-2:33 was very cluttered. Yeah, this was a bit much, but a purposeful build, so respect for paying this off. 3:35 was just a bunch of clutter, moreso at 3:50, and I'm still not recognizing anything melodically from Mario 2 for the longest time; is this ever going to circle back? When the underground melody finally came back at 4:04, it was just completely buried in muck, but thankfully sounded better from 4:12-4:27 once the soundscape cleared up.

On the production side, decluttering this would be very nice, because you have sections that just descend into indistinct noise that undermines the writing and contrast you're attempting to make. But yeah, the crux of why this is deemed too liberal is because of your treatment of "Underworld Theme Part 2 Lead", which is mostly unrecognizeable. In the original, it's only a 10-note pattern, so when you've altered it as much as you have, no one would really pick it up, and I even grew up on this theme and don't recognize it here, just the part 1 section, the drum pattern, and the melody's second half from the part 2 lead. Maybe it would seem too pedestrian for the arrangement, but you didn't need to alter the part 2 melody so drastically. As long as you feel it wouldn't compromise your vision of the piece, Tobias, go more straightforward with the melody; you already have a transformative and expansive enough concept as it is. If not, no worries, and I hope you submit something else so we can finally have you posted here. 

NO (resubmit)