*NO* Chrono Trigger "Mystic Cathedral"

[Liontamer]

Artist Name: Mel Decision

This piece was inspired by Emi Meyer's cover of Metallica's For Whom the Bell Tolls that appears in Blue Eye Samurai. I loved the tolling of the bells followed by the heavy intro. I had the idea of starting off with a choir that trails off into bells, before pivoting to a metal mix of The Cathedral. The loop for that theme is exceptionally short, however, so I dug into parts of Light of Silence, which appears inside the cathedral's dungeon, and then bits from World Revolution, which plays during one of the final boss battles of the game and slotted nicely into place with the rest of the mix. I wanted to keep the instrumentation fairly minimal for this mix, so I stuck with drums, guitars, an organ synth for timbral contrast, and occasional choir to really dig into the cathedral feeling. Outside of EQ and compression, the processing was fairly minimal—mostly reverb, a little chorus, and some short delay.

This piece probably ended up being 20% arrangement and 80% fiddling with guitar VSTs to make them sound more natural. Props to the Sages & other remixers during office hours for all their feedback and advice around guitar tones, amps, and humanizing guitar midi. The tips I learned were both immediately applicable in this piece and also helpful for some other WIPs I'm tinkering with. I would have loved to get some live instruments playing on this track, but going all-in on VSTs did allow me to learn a lot more about programming guitars, which I'm grateful for. Hopefully I was able to bring some semblance of realism into the parts.t

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Games & Sources

Chrono Trigger:

• The Cathedral by Yasunori Mitsuda: entire source, 0:00–1:10, 1:34–2:10, 3:22–3:46, 4:28–end remix
• Light of Silence by Nobuo Uematsu: 0:06–1:05 source, 2:16–3:10 remix
• World Revolution by Yasunori Mitsuda: 0:25–1:18 source, 3:10–3:22, 3:47–4:28, 4:40–4:52 remix

Edited July 11 by Liontamer
closed decision

[prophetik music]

opens with some very verby choir and organ synths. acoustic comes in soon after, aping fingerstyle. the attack on this guitar vst doesn't really sound super realistic for this (it's a weird combo of hammer-on and nail picking), nor does there seem to be much velocitization on it. there's a resolution at 0:59, some bells and sfx, and then drums building into 1:23 where we get some distorted bass guitar and rhythm guitar. the drums here are very verby, which lends to an arena feel. the bass again doesn't have much in terms of velocitization on it, which makes it feel very robotic. the rhythm guitar is panned pretty widely, or is stacked, and either way doesn't quite have enough distortion on it to cover up that it's not super realistic. the lead guitar comes in with the melody soon after and is really loud compared to everything else - it completely wipes every other instrument off the map and needs to be turned down a lot.

there's a bit of a break at 2:10 for a few seconds, and then we get some ensemble rhythmic stuff as the lead does some runs around Light of Silence. these runs don't sound super realistic mostly because of the attacks - there's no mix of picking and hammer-on. if it's possible in your vst to do that, you definitely want to look into varying that up. the vibrato that's put on the lead in a few places, like 2:35, sounds weird because it starts at the attack instead after a bit - set that lfo to start after a bit so that it's not modulating the attack right after it's picked.

3:10's a palate cleanser with the world revolution chords, and then we get a recap of the manoria cathedral melodic material. it sounds like the lead here is repeated from earlier based on how it's handling vibrato. this section is arrangement-rich and really fun. i love the stacked chords at 3:55 and how impactful that is.

4:28 is another manoria recap - this theme is getting a bit played out by this point, but you do keep it different by passing it around between instruments which is a good choice. 4:52 is the start of a ritard that causes some really weird transformations in the audio - is your reverb tied to steps instead of seconds for duration? i'm wondering if that's what's causing the modulation - and then at 5:10 we've got a recap of the opening section, and it's done.

this is a great arrangement! there's so much going on and i love that. despite never leaving 4/4, it has a real proggy feel to it. that said, the instruments absolutely are letting you down here. this track is screaming for live guitar, and while normally i wouldn't say "you need live instrumentalists to make it on the site", this track 100% will benefit from live guitar at least if not also live bass and drums. i know you're in tight with some great performers, so i'm wondering if you'd be able to work with them to get some real instruments in here instead of the fake stuff, because quite simply a guitar vst will never do what you're asking it to do without mentat-level abilities in industry-leading tools, whereas half of the guitarists in the community could do this in their sleep.

with that in mind, i'm not going to spend time talking about mastering, since i do feel strongly that this will change a lot when you revisit it. as it is, the instrumentation isn't good enough to pass as real or fake enough to pass as synth rock as-is, so i'll not pass this yet. but i'll definitely pass it when it comes back around and slays me with sick guitar riffs =)

 

 

NO

[Hemophiliac]

I loved this arrangement from the first version you showed me when it was randomly started up during Magfest in Jan. The whole idea worked out great, because the total concept is awesome. It's really awesome to have heard your arrangements mature and develop so much in the last few years.  Unfortunately the execution of the production and programming of the parts are holding this back.

Now, I'm not saying everything in here is bad because there's some really cool little details that I did notice that do help with the realism.  For example, triggering and using vibrato in the longer notes in the guitar, and sliding into notes. Those definitely help to give a human and realistic feel.

I'm not getting the sense that the parts are blending together in the mix, they feel like they are separate elements that happen to be playing the track.  Some in the same room, others maybe in another venue entirely. The kick also has a very round bassy tone in this as well that makes it hard to make out in the mix too.

Prophetik said this as well, and I really want to emphasize that you do not need live instruments to pass, but even just getting the guitars live here would go so far in helping with everything on this.

Again, arrangement and vibe is incredible but I can't pass this in the current state with the mixing and realism being rough.

NO (resubmit!)

 

[Chimpazilla]

Very interesting medley arrangement, the concept is solid and the combination of themes works really well.  This arrangement is a winner and does not need to be changed imo.  But the production needs some improvement.

The opening starts super abruptly, and the soundscape is oppressive.  There are multiple instruments and choir playing, and it is very midrangey and crispy and overwhelming.  The guitar or dulcimer at 0:18 is very bright and robotically played.  I like the choir but it is trying to carry the melody which falls apart for me when the dulcimer comes in.  To my ears, the dulcimer is playing a countermelody but it is mixed as the primary instrument in that section.  The dulcimer doesn't always sound in key with the choir during that section, and the choir is playing a variation of the source material at that point, so my brain is confused.  

At 1:46 we get the main guitar playing the source motif very clearly with good interpretations.  I agree that a real guitar would benefit the track. The sampled guitar sounds uncanny and robotically timed, and the extra notes in the motif line make it sound more fake than it should be, since the attacks are all the same.

The outro is the same as the intro, the heavily midrangey choir and pads and dulcimer.

The mastering on this track is unnecessarily loud.  SPAN is showing me there is some inaudible sub/rumble content below 30Hz for a good portion of the track, which only serves to reduce your mastering headroom.  Make sure nothing is playing super low other than kicks and basses, and make sure nothing is letting inaudible rumble through.

NO (resubmit)

 

[Liontamer]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:08 AM, prophetik music said:

the instrumentation isn't good enough to pass as real or fake enough to pass as synth rock as-is, so i'll not pass this yet

Quoted for truth. Please forgive me for sounding glib, Mel; it'll sound like I hated this, when I mean to just cut to the heart of what's holding it back since the other Js already weighed in. It's got good arrangement ideas in a vacuum, but every major component sounds stilted and inhuman, which is a non-starter. I recall hearing this during Office Hours, and the electric guitar in particular, which was the worst offender, doesn't feel markedly stronger than what I previously heard. You don't need live performers to get this passed, but you do have to humanize this set of instruments or find better samples. Even just for making strong mockups, it would be worth it to see how much you can hone this.

NO