Unaccepted Remix

[thomas_kresge]

I recently submitted a remix, an orchestrated version of the Luigi's Mansion theme. It was immedietally shot down for apparently the following reasons:

* the arrangement is not different enough (e.g. structure, tempo, instrumentation) from the original game music

* the arrangement is too underdeveloped and/or too repetitive

* the sound quality (e.g. mixing, processing, sample quality, recording, performance) is poor

The second one (arrangement is too underdeveloped and/or too repetitive) I can really understand, but I'm really wondering why it would be shot down for the other two reasons. Normally I probably wouldn't complain, but this other remix that djpretzel held in very high regard is making me wonder heavily about the other two reasons. This said remix is a Kid Icarus remix available here. This is one of the few orchestra-based remixes on the site. So here's what I'm wondering, starting with "the arrangement is not different enough (e.g. structure, tempo, instrumentation) from the original game music".

I'm not sure if standards have charged or what, but the Kid Icarus remix is hardly any different from its original. I has really no original parts thrown, it's just an arrangement. Granted, a very well-done arrangement, but still an arrangement (it's debatable weather you might consider an arrangement a remix). My Luigi's Mansion song doesn't really have too many original parts thrown, but it is most diffinetily different from the original. The tempo goes from slow to presto, original harmonies were thrown in, etc.

But that's not my biggest concern. The third reason shown was "the sound quality (e.g. mixing, processing, sample quality, recording, performance) is poor". I'm using Garriton Personal Orchestra to obtain the sounds, and they sound no higher or lower quality than the Kid Icarus song. It's highly acredited and sounds a thousand times better than MIDI. The two reasons that were specifically pointed out were the processing and sample quality, and I'm not 100% sure of what either of those means.

Because all my ranting is totally uncomparable without my song, here is a link my Luigi's Mansion remix. I would really like to here the input of other people.

Luigi's Mansion

Kid Icarus (again, for comparison)

[Chickenwarlord]

The mix was accepted over 5 years ago. Quality standards change. At the time, the sounds used there were probably close to top of the line. Music production has evolved at such a rate to make some of the best sounding old things childish in comparison to more modern offerings. Look at how far gaming consoles have evolved over the same period of time.

Firstly, everything is mastered fairly quietly. I understand that you want to have dynamic contrast, but in this case, it's to the point where I can barely hear it until 1:50.

The brass in your mix sticks out fairly sorely. There's quite a bit of unwanted squeaking coming from those high note stabs in...some instrument I can't readily identify. Maybe a flute? It doesn't really vary, as you yourself have said. Throw in some of your own stuff. Add a little interlude to break away from that main theme. Get creative. It will help you immensely.

[Skrypnyk]

I'm not sure if standards have charged or what,

Yes, yes they have. Download a mix in the upper 1000 and compare it to one of the first 500.

Now, I'm not sure if someone sent you the rejection letter, or if it was just automated, but I don't think they meant 'ALL' of those reasons are the reasons it wasn't accepted.

However, I could be wrong.

I don't know the original, so I can't compare, but the first 1:45 is verrry dull, minimal, basic, boring, simple, etc. etc. The next minute is a bit more exciting, but even then that's not saying much.

You samples, regardless of what you used, sound very flat, very gamey (for lack of a better word). There's no strong features to them. Some mastering/processing of them to bring them out, and have them sound stronger could help.

So yea, the jdgfgts are really anal about interpreting the mix into something different, while keeping the original recognizable, and having good samples are a must. (even if they cost 5, or 500 dollars, better to sound real then sequenced).

[Sil]

If it’s a good arrangement, you can’t really tell off the bat because the sample quality is just not up to par with what you can do with the free/cheap samples that are available online.

To me it sounds like you weren’t directing your arrangement towards your sampler’s strengths. My advice: find out what your ensemble of instruments can do best and write for that. Composers have made similar sacrifices for hundreds of years. If you really need a certain sound and don’t have it, you’re going to have to find it or buy it.

Those flutes right from beginning of the Icarus arrangement show that you know what sounds good. The brass at the beginning of the Luigi arrangement kind of imply that you don’t. See what I’m getting at?

[Dafydd]

Here's a bit of advice. Begin by listening to this thing I made for you.

It starts out like your intro does, with every not being the same velocity. Sounds pretty mechanical, doesn't it? Then the same thing plays again, this time with more individual velocities for each note. It still sounds fake, but it does sound better. No person can play an instrument to sound the exact same every time they play a specific note, so when an instrument is played like that, everyone thinks it sounds fake. When you can actually hear the same sample being repeated so many times in a row, and on the same note, it sounds really fake. This is what happens in your intro. You need to vary the velocities. The piano instrument I used has lots of different samples and plays them depending on how high I set the velocity for each key. A loud note has one samples, a faint one has another sample. If this orchestra pack you're using doesn't have this (I believe it's called layered samples) feature, you need to look for a better one, because you will never make a good brassline with just one sample for each note. Also, you need to make sure that the notes aren't always playing perfectly quantized - they need to be slightly off-beat to sound real. Pull the notes around so that they're not exactly on the beat - sometimes they should be ahead, sometimes they should be lagging. We're talking milliseconds here, but it makes all the difference.

Also, you're leaving this brass of yours, which is never going to sound convincingly real no matter what you do with it, completely naked. It feels almost embarrassing, like going to the freshman high school marching band's first performance. You need to divert the attention from the parts that aren't so convincing. Try adding some pizzicato strings to fill up the empty space between the notes there in the beginning, or some subtle woodwind chords in the background. Don't let either of these let the melody fall in the background, but keep them just audiable to make the song feel less empty.

I think I've been kind enough to another person to sate my conscience for a month now.

[Rozovian]

* the arrangement is not different enough (e.g. structure, tempo, instrumentation) from the original game music

* the arrangement is too underdeveloped and/or too repetitive

* the sound quality (e.g. mixing, processing, sample quality, recording, performance) is poor

The arrangement is pretty much the same as the game, tho at 1:50, things start happening. Nice that you've thrown in the boss version as well, but the rest of the song is boring, repetative, and sound dull. Like Dafydd says, vary velocity. Tho I onder how much of these is just straight from the MIDI.

You should consider reworking the first one and a half minutes of it, by swapping instruments around, or at least adding little events, like drum fills - just not with drums. Little things that happen to it. Listen to this. Most of the time it's the same theme over and over and over, but in so many different ways. WIth Luigi's Mansion theme, you can do the same, in different psooky styles (or whatever else you wanna go for).

The sound sucks. Sorry buddy, but it does. I know it's not easy to get good samples (I spent a fair amount of money on mine), but that's not an excuse. There's some links on the remixing forum that might help you. Overall, it sounds very MIDI-ish. The samples don't have much articulation, they're boring, really. I don't know how GPO works (and don't have any need to, either), but there's good samples out there. They also sound a bit lo-fi.

So this song being rejected isn't a wrong call from whomever was responsible for it. It needs more work. Try listening to a couple of songs in a similar sound, at least in terms of pacing and/or instruments, preferably more recent ones, so you won't get fooled by the lower quality of the older ones.