*NO* Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2 'Premeditated Treachery'

[Liontamer]

I definitely can't tell what's going on here, the second sub like this in as many weeks; what did I do to deserve this?!? (Kidding) Have contacted the submitting artist for a breakdown - LT

Greetings again from PrototypeRaptor, aka Jonathan Paulsen. I have a remix here of Red Alert 2's Hell March (one of my most favorite video games/music sources of all time) by the amazing Frank Klepacki.

I've always thought that the theme could pack more "punch" and just blow the listener away; this is what I've tried to accomplish. It's a hardcore DnB remix (no big beat or anything like that) - which I haven't really heard too many of here on the site. (probably arrangement concerns)

So I've tried to add new harmonies, new parts, vary the drums, and add differing sections to make it more "OCRemix friendly."

Sorry, I have no source here, just a mp3 I ripped from the game.

I hope you enjoy my remix - I'd hate to have butchered such a great song.

link:

(On a different note, I don't know if I'm allowed to have two mixes on the panel at the same time (StarFox Barrel Roll)...it's been a couple of months since I submitted that I believe and the submission instructions only indicate 3 weeks in between mixes - just wondering. Thanks)

LT Edit (10/30): Whoa, that's a lot of timestamps. See below:

Alright, sweet! Yeah, that's what I arranged. I had links, if you know what I mean... I just didn't know if it was acceptable to, well, link to them much less upload the files. Anyway, the time stamps as requested:

:01 - :12 - synths working their way down to the main riff (C - C# - E - C)

:12 - :24 - main riff is in the bass, harmonies added (source is extremely simple)

:24 - :35 - main riff still in bass, additional parts come in, arps, etc. Chord changes are simple, like the source.

:35 - :59 - background section, 7ths added to main riff and put in background, bass progression altered though chord structure is similar. Rearrangement of the 2nd melody in source is heard quietly. (:57-1:00 in source loops)

1:00 - 1:10 - 2nd melody is brought to forefront and rearranged (pretty liberal rearrangement to be honest)

1:10 - 1:22 - back to the :35 section with different instruments, modulation of the main riff in the bell synth

1:22 - 1:34 - serves as a bridge/drill n bass section. (plus I just like messing with stuttering effects Bass line is still in the right key, so no weird changes like that.

1:34 - 1:46 - most instrumentation falls out, drums filtered (both melodies from the source are spliced together)

1:46 - 1:59 - drums building, instrumentation building, main riff heard in a quiet background synth

1:59 - 2:22 - chorus again (main riff in bass/differing instrumentation)

2:22 - 2:57 - guitars come in and build on the riff, drums fall back into distortion, main synth plays a modified source melody

2:57 - 3:08 - drums fall out, instruments fall out, build on the main chord (c min)

3:08 - 3:34 - slow time, guitars with the main riff, synth improv solo/beep synth playing modified 7ths of source

3:34 - 3:57 - chorus again (preparing for the big finish)

3:57 - 3:58 - big dramatic pause (right...)

3:58 - 4:22 - climax point; main riff in guitar/bass; many supporting instruments get modified melodies; arps come in/crazy vocal work begins. (fire!)

4:22 - end - bass continues the main riff, drums fade out, filtered crash for a closure.

So, I guess in a nutshell I used the main bass synth to emphasize the main riff and the supporting instruments to modify the other melodies (specifically the one from :57-1:00 in the source)

I wanted to add more instruments, namely, an orchestra, but to get that bombastic sound I wanted the drums pretty much needed to be limited at 0db...this left little room in the mix.

Alright, I hope that helps you out - if you need anything else just let me know.

[Liontamer]

I'm not sure which source he meant:

Red Alert 2 - "HM2" (aka Hell March 2)

or

Red Alert - "Hell March"

I'm guessing the first one. Will update when I know more.

[zircon]

He's referring to HM2. It's just very liberally arranged. :27 in the original has a guitar melody that goes "D, D#, F#, D". In the remix, he does that same melody one key down. "C, C#, E, C". However, the rhythm is definitely different. The mixer also adds two extraneous notes not present in the source, which really confuses things. Much of the other material surrounding this riff (eg. chord structure, bassline) is different than the original as well. You could interpret the other melodies in the remix as being heavy variations, but I wasn't hearing that. The entire second part of the melody of HM2 was left out (the one that starts at :46) - you said in your timestamps you arranged it from :35 to :59 in your mix, but I heard 0 evidence of it.

www.soundtempest.net/ra2melo2.mp3

Didn't hear that melody or that rhythm anywhere in the remix.

As for the main riff, here's a side-by-side; the original riff repeated once, followed by the remix riff repeated once.

www.soundtempest.net/ra2comp.mp3

Simply put, this is too liberal. There is a wealth of source material, and the remix just doesn't connect to it enough. I think you went way overboard in making your mix "OCR-friendly" - don't be afraid to just straight up use the source melodies with no variation. We have NO RULE against that. I do it all the time, actually. You just need to do a decent degree of embellishment and addition as well. Here, you've gone so far from the original that you've basically made a new track that, while stylistically similar to HM2, is at best influenced by it.

Production is good overall at least. No major problems there; I think the bass is too distorted though. I would cut that back and octave it so you can hear it a little more clearly. The guitars later also sound pretty thin, maybe because everything in the mix is pretty distorted, so they don't cut through like they should. I would boost their bass to low-mid and cut the mid/high-mid. Boosting the stereo would help too. Of course these are secondary issues compared to the arrangement one. If you're willing to go back to this and really make the source connection MUCH more clear, I recommend a resub.

NO

[Liontamer]

My initial feeling as well is that this is simply too liberal. The melody here sounds nothing like the intro buildup at :27, the six-note melodies at :45 (main verse) or 1:06 (chorus), the guitar work at 2:13, or the string samples at 3:20. Melodically, those are basically the only places he could have gone. Let's see what's up now that zircon made some mock-ups to make the comparison easier.

Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: The Soundtrack - (01) "HM2"

Production-wise this is crowded but seems fine. No problems for me there. Way better than Star Fox "Barrel Roll," which was extremely generic for the genre.

But the overall treatment feels too liberal. The best we get at staying overtly to the opening 4 note "main riff" from :27-:28 in the source is from 3:20-3:31 with the supporting guitar. Otherwise, I hear how you're also using that main riff first from :12-:16 in the mix. And I'm not saying I'm automatically put off by rhythm changes, but to me the sum total of the changes sounds too different from the original and obscures the connection too much. As for the "second melody" first used from :46-:51 in the source, I also didn't pick that up in the areas you timestamped.

I can't run with it. To me, the changes to the source melodies at the core of the arrangement ensure that the whole arrangement sounds similar the source but could pass as "inspired by" and a wholly original track. Otherwise, this is a good track and well put together, IMO.

A reluctant NO

[DarkeSword]

You're allowed to have more than one mix on the panel at a time, so long as you're following the Wait-3-Weeks rule for submissions.

In any case, this is a wicked piece of music. I really love the crazy level of energy here. Nice job.

I do agree that it's too liberal though, for the reasons that Andy and Larry mentioned, so I'm going to say NO. Don't get discouraged, and you feel like it, please tweak this and resub. It'd be cool to have it on OCR eventually.