How would I go about recording and mixing on separate computers?\

[Kidd Cabbage]

I understand that this process may be, and probably is, different by each recording program, so I'll say now, I'm using Sonar 7.

Well, background - all of my mixes are very guitar-based metal. I've worked very hard on my tone, dual miking my amp even, to get it how it is, so I'm not open to switching to line-in to fix my problems. Well, at semester, I'm transferring to Berklee (hooray), and will most likely be living in the dorms.

Here's what messes me up: you're not allowed to play amped instruments in the dorms. I'll have to go to the practice rooms to play with any sort of amp, so to record my guitars, I'll have to record in the practice rooms.

I use a desktop for all of my remixing, but I do have a laptop. It's apparent to me that in order to keep miking my amp, I'll have to get a firewire interface for my laptop and bring my laptop with me to the practice rooms to record my guitars. Although I'll use it for the actual recording, I will do my sequencing, mixing, and mastering on my desktop, back at the dorm (it's far more powerful than the lappy).

So, here's how my process will look:

-I'll sequence out my programmed instruments (mainly drums using DFHS) on my desktop.

-I'll somehow get the bounced audio to my laptop (my lappy's HDD isn't big enough for DFHS or other sample libraries)

-I'll record my guitars on my lappy.

-I'll somehow get the recorded guitars to my desktop for mixing.

Now, I need help because I don't know how to get the audio between the computers with the audio lining up just how it should be. I can't just export the tracks, I wouldn't think, seeing that I would have to manually line up the tracks, and that would hardly end up precise.

Any ideas?

EDIT: It also should be of help to know that I've got a 250gb external HDD that could be of use here.

[dannthr]

export your recordings in the highest resolution, uncompressed file format you have available and bite the dithering bullet--connect your computers with cross-over cable.

[Tensei]

Depending on how you generally record your playing (i.e. One whole guitar track in one take or separated in a few different sections) it could vary, but I can't really see what's so hard about recording all necessary tracks, exporting them to .WAV, sending them to your desktop in any way you prefer, and editing them there.

[zircon]

Yeah, I don't see what the problem is. Record the WAVs on the laptop, send them to the desktop via LAN, wireless, external hard drive, etc.

[Kidd Cabbage]

The big issue is that if I just manually took the wav files is this:

I don't have my drum samples on the laptop, so I'm going to have some form of bounced audio on the laptop that I record over. Then, when I record the guitars over the bounced drum tracks, I would have to transfer the recorded guitar tracks back over. The whole issue is getting my recorded guitar tracks to line up perfectly with the original sequencing.

[Harmony]

If I'm understanding the issue correctly then my solution would be this: Always bounce your drum track starting from the 1st bar. So now you know exactly where the drums start in Sonar. Then, when you begin recording the guitar into the laptop, always start recording from the beginning of the bounced drum track, whether you need to or not. Now you know exactly where the guitar audio starts relative to the bounced drum track. Finally, when putting your guitar track back into Sonar, set the Now Time cursor to the beginning of the first bar (or wherever you bounced the drum track from) and import the audio. Your guitar track should be exactly lined up with the drum track in Sonar.

Si? Si.

[Kidd Cabbage]

I have, however, had bad experiences with tempos, although set the same, not lining up exactly.

I mean, this was Fruity Loops years ago, but I've been paranoid and skeptical ever since.

[dannthr]

I would hope you'd know where the guitar parts would start and end based on the fact that you wrote the music.

Sometimes, you have to adjust the audio to fit--that's just the way it is.

[Kidd Cabbage]

haha, I know where the parts go, man, but it's not that. It's on a smaller level, where it's more about nuance. Like, I used to record and my recordings were always about 90 samples behind (I never adjusted the offset). Although the recordings were close enough that they seemed to be on time, it just never sounded very right or professional - the playing never felt like it was 'in the pocket', so to speak.

Now, this may just seem like I'm being petty, but it really does make a difference. I've since fixed my offset, and I can guarantee a huge improvement just because the rhythms line up more precisely. Especially with how much compression I use on my music - rhythms have to line up right or it really messes with the compression on tight rhythms.

[Harmony]

I have, however, had bad experiences with tempos, although set the same, not lining up exactly.

I mean, this was Fruity Loops years ago, but I've been paranoid and skeptical ever since.

The process I described doesn't have anything to do with tempos. You can set them at whatever you want and you should still be able to position your guitar audio EXACTLY (to the precision of a single sample) where it should be in Sonar. The only way that I can see a problem occuring is if when you bounce the drums to an audio file, the drums don't exactly line up with the midi data they were generated from. I find that possibility to be very unlikely.

Even still, if you don't want to go through that simple procedure to get sample accurate timing, believe it or not it's really not hard to just move the guitar track around until it's where you think it sounds right. Like Dan said, that's just the way it's gotta be sometimes.

[dannthr]

The only trouble I can see happening would have to do with bizarre recording stalls due to CPU stress--that would create inconsistency in the dual recording process.

But that's unusual now-a-days with Sonar. Give yourself some latency and go with it.

At least try it out--if it don't work, come back.

Also, if this is something that doesn't work out--then it might be worth investing in a solid DI box/Amp Sim package--like Guitar Rig 3 and Rig Kontrol or something.

Especially considering how much stress you're giving one recording session.

[Kidd Cabbage]

Also, if this is something that doesn't work out--then it might be worth investing in a solid DI box/Amp Sim package--like Guitar Rig 3 and Rig Kontrol or something.

I refuse!

You guys sure that when exporting everything and re-importing it to the project, it will be sample accurate?

[dannthr]

No.

But if you're recording and exporting at uncompressed 96Khz or more, you're going to get a sample resolution that gives you room to breathe.

[Kidd Cabbage]

haha, I don't mean samplerates, I mean samples - timing.

EDIT: And I'm assuming that if I record audio at 44.1k 24-bit WAV files, and export them at the same quality with dithering turned off, I wouldn't suffer any quality loss.

[Harmony]

The only trouble I can see happening would have to do with bizarre recording stalls due to CPU stress--that would create inconsistency in the dual recording process.

True, I hadn't considered that.

You guys sure that when exporting everything and re-importing it to the project, it will be sample accurate?

If you're importing/exporting at the same sample rates, I'm claiming yes. Barring any oddball problems, I don't see where timing errors could come into the process.

[Fray]

Now, I need help because I don't know how to get the audio between the computers with the audio lining up just how it should be. I can't just export the tracks, I wouldn't think, seeing that I would have to manually line up the tracks, and that would hardly end up precise.

Oh, I think I get it. All you need to do is export the recorded guitar tracks as broadcast .wav's. Those have the time offset from the beginning of your project stored in them. So when you import them back on your desktop, they'll show up at the exact same start time.

I think there are some global options that you have to twiddle in Sonar to get it to work right, specifically "Always Import Broadcast Waves at Their Timestamp", and for convenience, "Export Broadcast Waves by Default". In Sonar 5 they're in Options -> Global -> Audio Tab. I don't have 7 yet (it's in the mail though ^.-).

I think that's the most elegant way to do what you're trying to do.

[Kidd Cabbage]

Oh, I think I get it. All you need to do is export the recorded guitar tracks as broadcast .wav's. Those have the time offset from the beginning of your project stored in them. So when you import them back on your desktop, they'll show up at the exact same start time.

I think there are some global options that you have to twiddle in Sonar to get it to work right, specifically "Always Import Broadcast Waves at Their Timestamp", and for convenience, "Export Broadcast Waves by Default". In Sonar 5 they're in Options -> Global -> Audio Tab. I don't have 7 yet (it's in the mail though ^.-).

I think that's the most elegant way to do what you're trying to do.

Ahh, this seems to be relevant to my interests.

I think this is what I'm looking for. So, if I have those options checked, and export the audio from my drums to the laptop, it will line up in the project exactly the way the MIDI did originally?

[po!]

I have, however, had bad experiences with tempos, although set the same, not lining up exactly.

I mean, this was Fruity Loops years ago, but I've been paranoid and skeptical ever since.

i've had timing problems when collabing with someone using frooty loops. apparently it keeps track of time differently from sonar and other programs, so when i exported my track from sonar starting from measure X, it wouldn't line up properly if you import it at measure X in FL

i dunno if they fixed this problem, but in any case if you're using sonar for everything you shouldn't have any alignment problems. just set the same tempo for your projects and line up everything to the nearest measure.. it should be fine

btw someone mentioned recording hiccups due to lack of cpu power... in sonar, if this happens, the timing is still fine, but the audio track will contain pops

[Fray]

Ahh, this seems to be relevant to my interests.

I think this is what I'm looking for. So, if I have those options checked, and export the audio from my drums to the laptop, it will line up in the project exactly the way the MIDI did originally?

I think so... but skim the manual for it and try it out first before you get really deep into a project or something. I've never actually used the feature before, I just know it's there from seeing the options, etc..