Luigi's Mansion (I hope this isn't too God-awful.....)

[Hausdog]

This is my first mix... and it might be a bit disappointing, but I'm working at it.

http://freewebs.com/gbawesome/m.mid

I know... it's a midi... but I'm barely starting this and I'd like your opinion.

Things I need help with:

Getting a theremin soundfont to replace the whistle (I looked on the internet and could only find a couple of really bad ones)

Fixing that harpsichord roll

Getting a Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie soundfont or something really close

Any help and comments would be appreciated! Let me know if this is just unsalvageable and I should quit...

[Dafydd]

Wow... well, people here just aren't too big on midis, as you could imagine. Personally, I think this is pretty nice, I can definitely see why you'd want to find a banjo-kazooie font for this. I don't know what software you're using but one thing that you'll just have to fix once you've found the right sounds/soundfonts and feel ready to make an mp3 out of this is reverb. Things sound really flat without it and since this is an "orchestrated" piece, more or less, you'd really need things to sound realistic, which isn't going to happen without (a little) reverb.

By the sound of this piece, you have a lot of musical talent. I would suggest getting some kind of better software. Don't let midi hold you back.

[Rozovian]

lol, one of the funnier tunes I've heard in a while.

Gonna use a theremin? AFAIK, a theremin generates ordinary sine waves, unless it's built to do something other than that. It's how it's played that gives it the unique sound, very precise tremolo and vibrato. Getting the sine to sound like a theremin is gonna take a lot of midi/modwheel-programming.

But like David said, you've got the talent it takes. Can't help you with the soundfonts, but will happily have a listen to this once you've gotten a little further on it (as in having found soundfonts you can use and rendered it to audio).

[Tensei]

yeah I've found that theremins are best mimiced by some synth design: just take a sine wave with a decent amount of portamento, set the mod-wheel up so you control the LFO, which in turn controls the oscillators pitch. That way you can control the vibrato by using a keyboard's mod wheel or automating it in your sequencer.

[Hausdog]

Man... this is a lot harder than writing a midi. I mean, you're at the mercy of soundfont makers and it requires lots of technical knowledge AND creativity. I salute the people who can make these really fast.

Well, here it is... I have no clue how to do reverb, and I think I'm going to have to change the clarinet soundfont... but I have SOMETHING to show for all my work. Next draft, in the beginning, I'm going to staccato the tubas (yes, the brass instrument is a tuba playing where a trumpet should be) a bit.

freewebs.com/gbawesome/LuigisMansion.mp3

Let me know what you think...

I used SynthFont to play it and Audacity to record it, because FruityLoops didn't want to acknowledge my midi at all, thus making me sad.

And I'm thinking I might just record myself singing like a theremin. I actually did it once... but I had just gotten out of the shower so the steam really helped my voice go that high a lot.

[The Instrumental Light]

Hmm, interesting. I agree, I think you do have a lot of talent in this area. It was even well orchestrated; I'm impressed. The only thing that really stands out is the quality, which may not be your fault. I would as well recommend getting a new or better program to work with; great job anyway!

[Rozovian]

The people that can make these fast have been using a number of soundfonts for long enough to know them. Or whatever else they use.

How'd you make the MIDI. If FL is being an a******, see if you can work around it by opening your MIDI in another MIDI sequencer, and saving it. I don't know FL, never used it, but most sequencers should be able to open MIDI.

There's still some very MIDI-esque issues with this, the lead is choppy when it plays the same note over and over. Staccato might fix that, as you've planned. The boring sequencing of the background stuff half way through, the theremin, I guess. It's a great idea, but it needs more work. Too raw.

Soloing instruments isn't a good idea when you're dealing with soundfonts, or any sampled instrument, really. Without really careful sequencing and note-specific modulation, natural reverb in the right amounts, and a plethora of other details, they'll sound fake.

Also, something to consider, dynamics, that is, how loud and intense the song is at different times. The classic route to take is to crash-start it, cool down, and build up to the grande finale. Yeah, there's variations and alternatives, but essentially, everything needs direction. This is a bit lacking in that department, but work out the technical problems before addressing that.

[Hausdog]

When you say "quality" do you mean samples or production? Because I am sort of a technical idiot and need advice in the production arena if it's a problem. But if it's a sampling issue, I can get new samples (the strings especially... ugh!). Most of them are from a multi-purpose soundfont that does everything decently... The drums are Roland, the guitar is the find I'm most proud of... and the choir, harpsichord, and whistle (because it's temporary anyway) are general MIDI. I had the idea of making the very beginning sound like GM, but I scrapped that after I realized how long it was.

[Rozovian]

I think Industrial Light meant it still sounds raw, as I phrased it.

If you get it to work in Fruity Loops or something you should have had half your production problems solved, and made the rest solvable. The right samples and a little more control can make a huge difference in the overall quality. I went from tracker software to GarageBand some years ago, and it was a big leap. Since then, I've taken smaller steps, but am getting further. it's all about that, steps. Occasional leaps, and a gazillion of smaller steps.

If FL doesn't work, see if you can find some other software to use. If you understand MIDI (numbers, not notes), you might want to consider trackers. But have a look at the guides in the ReMixing forum, you might find some useful software there.

[Hausdog]

Okay... The only thing I've tried that even let me import MIDIs is Acid Studio... which isn't letting me do anything with them, instead preferring MP3's, which seem to hate me.

So Rozovian: you're saying I should change the part of the theremin-type thing, shelve the idea of a sequenced instrument solo, and fix the dynamics? Can do...

By the way, could a human play the guitar part?

I had an idea: I'd modulate the whistle sound... Good idea?

[Tensei]

What version of FL are you using? The midi you posted works for me when I import it..

[Rozovian]

So Rozovian: you're saying I should change the part of the theremin-type thing, shelve the idea of a sequenced instrument solo, and fix the dynamics? Can do...

It's a great idea, but making it sound like a theremin is tricky, plus you need to watch out for making it boring. Long notes changing only when chords change... that's too simple for the judges, and ultimately, for a lot of people to listen to. There are instances where it works, but this isn't one of them, at least not yet. Plus it only sounds like a sine on a synth, not a theremin. Vibrato and tremolo, and more glide/pitch bend.

Sequenced instruments can work as solo, but it depends on the samples/synthesizer. An audio effect on it helps to level things out, tho the best ones are either built into the sampler, or are different kinds of distortion and amp simulations. It depends on the samples and the sequencing.

By the way, could a human play the guitar part?

Probably. Some guitar-playing nolifer. One possibility is to record little parts of it, small sections at a time. Another is to use samples and spend some aspirin on getting it to sound good.

I had an idea: I'd modulate the whistle sound... Good idea?

Might work, depending on the modulation used.

Actually, I'm pretty fond of your theremin imitation idea. Run it through a nice effect to remove the obvious human qualities, and what you have is an artificial yet organic sounding instrument with a human touch... The human voice can do wonders for the mood, and with a remix of this type and mood, I highly recommend trying it.

--

So, Tensei-San got it working in FL. So it's possible. He could probably send you an FL file of it if you say please.

[Hausdog]

What version of FL are you using? The midi you posted works for me when I import it..

I'm using 7.

I mean, it probably works, but I don't quite know how. How'd you import it?

And also, all the sequencing stuff sounds pretty hard... I think I'll just try to recruit a live player and record the theremin-type sound myself.

[Tensei]

I'm using 7.

I mean, it probably works, but I don't quite know how. How'd you import it?

And also, all the sequencing stuff sounds pretty hard... I think I'll just try to recruit a live player and record the theremin-type sound myself.

The Import Midi option, obviously.

What you do then is you add channels with the soundfonts/vsts you want to use and you connect each one to the midi track you need.

[Hausdog]

What you do then is you add channels with the soundfonts/vsts you want to use and you connect each one to the midi track you need.

Okay, I can handle all that except connecting it to the midi track. I'm afraid I don't know how to get anything but middle C played on each 16th note of the first measure followed by a big droning note afterwards.

Well, never mind. It's still really time-consuming, but I can actually make the soundfonts play some notes. I didn't notice the "Piano Roll" option until just now.

What's been happening on the musical front... For one thing, I screwed around with the theremin long enough to convince me that it would probably be easier just to sing it. I staccatoed the beginning part of the tuba and that's about it.

[Tensei]

Okay, I can handle all that except connecting it to the midi track.

Right click on the midi-track (the button should be called 'single staff' or something)-> replace->more..-> choose the vst you want OR you click replace-> Fruity Soundfont player.

[Hausdog]

Okay, I got all that working. HOWEVER, I can't import an audio clip without losing my MIDI stuff and vice versa.

The theremin singing is hard. I tried to sing it at the pitch it was going to be in my song, but one of the notes is at a point where one falsetto goes into another. So I tried an octave lower and twice as long but I ran out of breath. So after a couple more trials with the second method, here's the result:

freewebs.com/gbawesome/suckytheremin.mp3

There are a bunch of pops and cracks that need deleting from the theremin audio file and I desperately need a string soundfont.

[Tensei]

Okay, I got all that working. HOWEVER, I can't import an audio clip without losing my MIDI stuff and vice versa.

To import an audio clip press Channels-> Add one-> Audio Clip, and it will show up under audio clips in the pattern thingy (so you won't see it right away, you have to change the selector at the bottom to "all" or to "audio clips).

I desperately need a string soundfont.

Try Cadenza Strings, Squidfont Orchestra or Papelmedia Strings.

[Hausdog]

I took your advice and got Cadenza Strings and it sounds SO MUCH BETTER than what I had before. Thank you so much!

Here's what it sounds like now:

freewebs.com/gbawesome/anotherone.mp3

Changes I made:

Adding a cartoon "WHOO" sound

Fixed some volume levels

Added the sped-up "theremin" sound

Applied that lovely Cadenza soundfont

Changed the string ensemble to a solo violin

Let me know what you think!

ALSO: I need to get somebody to play the guitar for this. Do you think anybody would be willing to play guitar for THIS? Or is further tweaking required?

[Rozovian]

Sound quality has improved with the new strings, but the overall in those parts don't appear any better as there's now a really slow attack on the strings. See if you can tweak the attack, or start from further on in the sample. Now it sounds like the strings are a little behind. You could of course fix that by moving them a little little bit back, tho I'd prefer strings with sharper attack. Dunno how much control you've got over soundfonts, so can't tell you what to do, but see if you can fix that somehow.

Also, the strings need a longer release time.

The theremin is cool, but with a rather soft attack, strings lagging and drums providing a solid rhythm, everything sounds unsynched at that point. Probably because of the strings. It also sounds a bit off key. Try recording yourself, and apply some effects, kill highs and lows with EQThat's the best way to fake a theremin unless you sit for hours tweaking vibrato, tremolo, and pitch bend settings on a sine wave.

Also, apply a little reverb to make it less dry. Tensei-San, I dunno what bus features and reverb effects FL has, so you should help him with that. Do note, Haus, that too much reverb drowns the song, and too little (or none) make it sound like MIDI or like something recorded in a bathroom. Different instrument require different amounts of reverb. Check the guides forum, I think there's a section on reverb in zircon's compendium.

Much to do. But you're getting a big fat bonus point for the WHOO sound.

[Tensei]

Tensei-San, I dunno what bus features and reverb effects FL has, so you should help him with that.

AFAIK you can't route the channels to a bus in FL (I'm probably wrong about that, but I don't know that much about FL), so you'll have to route the individual channels to the mixer and apply reverb to them.

Just call up the mixer with F4 or with View->Mixer, click on the instrument/midi channel you want in the pattern section, then right-click on a channel in the mixer and select "Link selected channel" (or something similar). After that the name of the channel should be shown in the mixer, and you're free to insert effects by clicking on one of the drop-down menu's on the right. After that you just pick the effect from the list, and it should work out for itself.

I'm thinking for a semi-orchestral setting like this it would be best to put a Fruity Reeverb 2 on the master channel with a relatively high decay and the biggest room size possible, but with a LOW wet ratio. Then you can put a standard Fruity Reeverb on the individual channels and tweak it to your taste.

Hope that all made kind of sense

[Sixto]

You can send any channel in FL to any FX bus.

http://tadakichi.baka.us/fl_channel.jpg

[Hausdog]

The MP3:

freewebs.com/gbawesome/lm3.mp3

Well, this sounds quite a bit better in my opinion. I took everyone's advice. Rozovian, I fixed the strings so that they hit the meat of the note at around the same time as the other instruments. I couldn't fix the attack (sorry.....) so I moved everything up but the strings. Not only that, but I put some decay and release on them so they don't lurch from note to note. Tensei-San, I produced it basically to your specifications. I put the whole thing in a big room, and did some tweaking. The entire track sounds less... crappy now. A bit more organic. Sixto, you saved me a lot of time.

The theremin will return next draft. It's 2 in the morning and I don't want to wake everyone up by singing in too-loud falsetto.

[Rozovian]

Straight to the criticisms:

There's some noise at times, I think you've got it justa little too loud. Bring down the master as little as possible. It could be the samples, but it seems to only happen at the loudest parts. Then there's a little click in the beginning, and the whole (almost) silent part in the beginning (0:00-0:06) is something I bet the judges would have you to fix before they'd let the remix onto the site.

Strings sound so much better now. Kick needs more boom. Layer another sample on top of it, something with more bass and boom. Either that, or add a bass on it. That bass could follow the low brass most of the time.

Effects, use a compressor on each drum. The toms could use that, and the kick more so. I'd use a little bit more reverb, I think. A really weak compressor or multipressor on the master out could also be good, level it all out a little more and kill spikes... which could be what those crackling noises are.

And then there's the matter of velocities. Don't think about that you may have to set it on every single note. Focus on the exciting parts of one instrument, say, the guitar at 0:58-1:10. The end hits could use more velocity, and some notes in the beginning and middle of this section, the lower ones, could be less loud. Some of them. Then pick another section to fix like that. With strings, use the automation feature to give more life. Think like a string ensemble - more or less volume on sustained chords, depending on what you wanna do with them. Drums, start by fixing the tambourine, the multiple hits at the end of every measure (if I got the terminology right), the first ones could be a bit more quiet. The opposite on the 1:10- part, first one louder or second one more quiet.

But you're right, this is sounding a lot better.

[Hausdog]

freewebs.com/gbawesome/lm4.mp3

Well, I worked the whistle into what might be a non-terrible theremin. I added a touch of overdrive to the clarinet. I made the drums sound better.....