Strike911
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Posts posted by Strike911
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Maybe I'd feel different about this situation if the game that was so expensive actually was good or contributed to the gaming industry in some significant way.
I'm shocked by the number of people bidding on this thing...
... but hey, if people have the money for something and they have the desire to purchase it, then more power to them, crazy as it might seem.
Lord knows if I had plenty of cash lying around I'd buy stuff that people would think I'm crazy for... like hundreds upon hundreds of arcade machines that I would play the living hell out of.
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i was considering MvC2... but ... Street Fighter 2 HD Remix looks cool too... I'm on the fence... 7 bucks isn't much though...
... *groan*
I know what's going to happen... I'm going to end up buying both.
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see, what we really need are pics of the ugliest game company logos...
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Death Vegas is very cool and exactly the type of stuff I'm looking for.
Yeah, I'm aiming for more of a turn based game that isn't so much twitch reflexes as it is strategy. Again, my prototype doesn't have turns implemented yet, and only demonstrates how one unit can affect the perception of the other, as well as an automated Offense and Defense mode, which honestly was really difficult, but it works.
It is way too fast and again, only accounts for quick combo exchanges rather than real strategy at this point. A menu based system is kinda easy though for attack defense. Just a bunch of if-thens basically. At the end of that video, the guy that made successive hits forced the defender's reaction time to dwindle and, in fact, speed up. Yet, when the guy losing attacks, the slow down in time for the winning guy's reaction time is still slow enough for him to react. It is too fast though.
It's way too fast (because of my limitations in knowing how to actually program) but again, it functions as a proof of concept. Slowing down time much slower than I have it makes the program go fruity since it's an amateur way of doing it. If it were slowed down and accounted for properly and the addition of complete stops where the player can input his command after a successful exchange occurred (where to attack, to move away, etc.) then that's more of how my vision works (which I'm working on). It's turn based with an element of making the right timing for blocks, again, which is the only way I could figure out a system where an eventual failure to block would occur. I started this prototype a year ago, and its the best rule system I could figure out, outside of using only stats which I think is kind of boring. At that point there might as well be no defensive instruction required at all.
The problem I ran into was that if you allow people to input a defensive move consistently with no time limit, they will rarely be wrong when they play the game enough. At that point game will have to rely only on character stats rather than strategy or attempting to affect the balance of the fight. So I'm working on a system where stats affect not only the amount of damage done, but how susceptible to failure a character can become in the middle of a fight. More experience means less chance to fail, which both relies and doesn't rely on stats, which I find appealing.
I'm going to check out Dissidia. Thanks also for posting Death Vegas. It has a lot of similar elements that I want to take a look at. Still, my eventual goal is more of a strategy based rpg style (sans menus).
I appreciate your guys' input.
It's actually helped clear a lot of issues for me in nailing down this rule structure! One day down the line, I'd like to try and get my programmer buddies and me to start working on some kind of game like this, so ... this is just an exercise in game design, rather than actually making a real game. Still, this thread has been valuable.
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Okay, don't laugh at this, but this is what I've got so far. My system utilizes the passage of time based on how well each unit is doing. It's the best I could do to convert perception and morale into a tangible game mechanic.
Basically the better you are playing, the longer you have to perceive incoming attacks to defend. An algorithm controls how slow time goes based on how well each side is doing. If momentum swings one unit's way, the other unit has a shorter chance to block. Based on how quickly a unit blocks an incoming attack, they can gain bonuses, like counter attacks or swing the momentum their way for better chances at landing a clean blow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs062dgGCHo
This is a super basic demo, movement isn't integrated, no one can die, and the player only has 3 attacks available which is not enough for real strategy... furthermore, the idea of turns isn't yet in there... quite, but really to use turns I just have to limit how many attacks each player can do, and what their final position is (are their arms in the air, are they off balance, etc.). Distinct combos aren't in there either. It's a prototype, not even alpha. But it kind of works. The time slowness has to be slowed much more, and in a final version I'd want time to completely stop when an exchange has reached a particular point or if one player has left himself open to attack... in that situation both player would input there next action according to what they both see (move away, move forward, guess where the next attack is coming, etc.). Also, in a final version some more powerful moves would take longer to wind up and then attack, as well as the lag required to pull the weapon back into a fighting position.
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I smell a new forum contest brewing!
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Well, there goes another one.
... we'll never get our bills paid if we can't keep the customers in our restaurant... combine that with old man Atmuh chasing visitors off the front patio.
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Yeah, I think it was in the middle of MGS3's development, although, I'm not sure. It's been a few years. lol.
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Always been a fan of Kojima Productions and the simplicity of Namco's.
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I WILL PULL THIS FORUM OVER!
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Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden II on the 360.
I gotta be honest... playing both of those games was like incessantly pounding my penis with a hammer. They're great for me for one playthrough or so, but my skill level is far too low to enjoy them over and over again. lol.
/jealous
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you think that's bad, wait till you get your ass kicked and faced bashed in by this type of sagat!
omg!!!! That was actually pretty funny! The crowd made it!
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I'm not saying Sonic 4 will be good or bad, I don't know...
... but changes in physics doesn't necessarily mean the game will be bad. I mean, look at the Smash Bros series. Same 2D style, but it changed drastically from each iteration (though admittedly, the change from Gamecube to Wii was subtle at best, not nearly as pronounced as the transition from N64 to Gamecube). The physics changed each time. I understand Sega has a proven track record, but the gameplay's control is all dependent on the level design. If it works it works, fact is, we just don't know if it will or not. There were subtle changes going from Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, but it worked. Who knows at this point until we play it?
It's true that Sonic looks a little more floaty than in older Sonic iterations... does that mean a bad Sonic game? I don't know. It maybe won't feel the same as Sonic 3, or S&K, but then again, its a new Sonic game being outsourced by Sega, who has consistently put out craptacular Sonic games. *shrugs* Could be decent. If I were going to judge the Sonic series before playing Sonic 4, I'd do it by looking at Sega's track record for what an acceptable Sonic release is, not leaked pre-release footage. Games change a lot.
It's all pretty up in the air at this point until we play it. Physics and gravity in modern game engines is like a single variable or two, fundamentally, so changing it wouldn't be difficult. That said, at this point in the game's development, physics settings are probably set in stone, since again, the overall level design for modern platformers DEPEND on gravity. Jump distances are all calculated and levels are designed accordingly. Messing around with gravity once levels look constructed is a slippery slope, because you don't know (without A LOT of testing) if the changes break something in the entire game. Gravity changes can be a delay inducing modification to decent sized games that rely on it heavily, again, a Sonic game that needs jumping would, unless they tweak jump acceleration, each spring's power, a lot of things have to be checked... which is also a possibility.
Not saying change is impossible, but it's highly unlikely at this point. If people don't like the floaty Sonic feel (or in this case, the look of the feel), then they probably already know they won't like Sonic 4's gameplay.
Easy as that.
The possibilities of change are just as likely as the possibilities of the game staying the same as it is, since we just don't know what the team working on the game wants to do or accomplish. We don't know if newer market research indicates that people like the floaty feel... it is in New Super Mario Bros after all. It's in a lot of 3D games that go 2D. Maybe it doesn't feel right to the developers without it?
... I have no opinion of this game right now, myself (outside of missing the classic red blurred feet running animation). Yeah, the video footage looked like it had some bugs, but it was pre-release footage. It wasn't meant to be analyzed by hardcore fans this early in the ballgame. It'll have bugs until the game is ready for release. Is the floaty feeling a bug? Don't know. Running animation final? Don't know. Hell, we don't know if the snazzy title screen is final. None of us do. Yeah, the game looks a little different, but maybe that's what a modern Sonic game needs to sell... it's been a really long time since an old school Sonic game was released by Sega, and the market is different. Fact is, all us old school, hardcore Sonic fans are few and far between in the big scheme of things. Most people will buy a Sonic game because they played Sonic as a kid and want modernized neo-nostalgia. They won't be analyzing things like physics, drop speeds, and stuff because the game is being billed as a 2D Sonic in 3D. Will it feel the same? I don't know, probably not exactly. Will it be a good game? Again, I don't know. Let's not judge a book by it's early, leaked, unfinished second and third paragraphs... or snazzy cover.
I don't have much hope for Sega's acceptable Sonic releases, so I'm taking a "wait and see" approach for the release. If it ends up being classic goodness I'll get it, but for me, all the previous Sonic history makes me hesitant to lay down any cash on a game that just has such a bad and consistently awful track record WITHOUT first playing a demo, or hearing glowing reviews everywhere. I think putting Sonic back in his 2D roots is a good decision on Sega's part but the game needs a lot more than a perspective change to get me to buy it at this point.
I need proof from Sega...
... I still have Sonic Shuffle taste in my mouth, that's why.
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This is a super long post, I apologize, but if you have any input it will be greatly appreciated.
As a few of you may know, I dabble in very amateur game design in my free time. Mostly side scrolling shooter prototypes and proof-of-concepts, but as of late I've been working on a Turn-Based Fighting prototype that combines the strategy of a tactics game except on much more personal level (away from giant armies or squads). Again, it's more a proof of concept prototype than a real game at this point, but I'm making a lot of progress. On occasion though, I run into speed bumps that, because there are so few games similar to what I'm trying to do, cause me headaches when trying to figure out the rules for the game. I've written down pages of pen and paper rules to each turn, and I've got a decent start, but there are a few areas that need a lot of work, and in all honesty, I don't even know that this type of system would even be fun to play. It's merely a system I think has potential and I want to see if its possible to even develop such a thing.
Again, I have a working prototype on my computer that works decently enough (it's basic don't get me wrong, with only a prototype combat mechanic in place) but there are a few little hiccups in my system that could use solving and the only way I've been able to is by analyzing both rules in video game RPGs and pencil paper RPGs. Analyzing how much better professional game developers solved a problem helps me 10 times over, and analyzing gameplay from various RPGs (both video game and pencil/paper) have already helped me on my way.
You don't control armies or squads like you would in a turn based tactics-RPG, but you control the methods of an individual's attack and movement in a 1 on 1 scenario, including leaving yourself open to attack, opting for quick attacks, choosing to make risky moves, evading, counters, etc. I've been looking around the internet for various turn-based combat games in this vein to research how they handle their combat system, but I just cannot for the life of me find anything OTHER than 3 titles.
Tactics RPGs on the other hand are EVERYWHERE, but are not what I'm looking for. What I've learned is that they focus mainly on movement. Attacking is secondary to that. There's no strategy to actually attacking (unless you include order of attacking). You just attack once your guys are in position. Most of the strategy relies on how you position your army of units (occasionally healing them, or producing more). Army based, squad based tactical RPGs are little too wide in scope for what I'm aiming for. Fire Emblem, FF tactics, and Advance Wars would be included as games that are not what I'm looking for. There are typically no defensive responses in these games that the player can decide on. Valkyria Chronicles, allows defensive attacks, but they're automated if I remember correctly. Also not what I'm looking for. Combat should flow freely between each person. Defensive tactics should be inputted by both individuals fighting. So one person would go into a robust defensive mode when the other is attacking, and vice versa. There must be games out there like this, I just can't find them.
So I started this exploration into the vast crevasses of the internet (it got scary), and I can only find 2 or 3 games even remotely similar to a turn based fighter, where micro level decisions are made by the player in regards to how to fight:
1. Hybrid Heaven (Konami, N64)
2. Toribash (Indy, freeware) http://www.toribash.com/
3. Rose&Camellia (flash game, http://nigoro.jp/game/rosecamellia/rosecamellia.php)
Hybrid Heaven is VERY close to my proof of concept. It plays like a regular menu-based RPG except with movement which allows you to choose melee attacks, or move to a strategic melee location. Again, it feels more like a regular old RPG with a movement system, and attacks you can do are limited to melee attacks, largely. What makes it unique is that you can target different limbs and limit your enemy's potential attacks by disabling their good arm/leg/etc. It's as close of a system as I've been able to find that actually mimics the strategy required in a fight. It uses a particularly clunky menu system though, which my prototype is trying to avoid. Still, Hybrid Heaven's mixing of genres is the closet I've come to finding a true, turn based fighter.
Toribash is a little out there and is kind of obscure the way fights are handled and play out. It's more of a systematic physics game than a turnbased fighter, or tactical RPG. You pretty much control a ragdoll to smack people in ridiculous ways as you fall. Strategy is involved ( I think ), but not really the strategy I'm aiming for. Still, the game demonstrates the ability to react to enemy attacks dynamically. Toribash is a little TOO in depth in that you control joints and joint movement to a degree far more complex than merely choosing when to punch or kick. And again, fights are... silly at best. Really, Toribash is a joint movement sim where people just move the joints to kill each other, but you can still react in a timed way. Again, not exactly what I'm aiming for, but the timing structure is cool for reference.
Rose and Camellia also demonstrates something similar, albeit MUCH simpler. where you can choose to attack. You can always evade, but based on how well you're doing, evasion gets increasingly harder to do. Similarly, on occasion you can react to an enemy attack by an instanced counter option. This ebb and flow of fighting is similar to the system I'm trying to develop, though again, much simpler. Good starting place though.
What these games have in common is the ability to react to an enemy's attack. A single attack has ramifications that must be dealt with a turn or two later (position of enemy, status of their arm, etc.). These games (particularly Hybrid Heaven and Rose&Camellia) are very similar to the prototype I've developed. Combat is a little more natural in my system though, and outside the confines of a typical RPG menu system, yet still turn based and strategic.
So my question is this... Are there any more games like these?
I'm looking for games similar to Hybrid Heaven, where the focus of turn based combat at the level of actually fighting. Again, in most regular turnbased RPGs you just choose your attack (Final Fantasy, Pokemon). Hybrid Heaven is unique in that the fight actually feels like a real fight. There are consequences for choosing to punch. Does a punch leave you open to another attack?
I'm looking for games similar to these, and with the massive amounts of flash games that are available, one has to assume SOMEONE has come up with some kind of system that is similar to these.
(I hope I've worded this correctly. It's very difficult to explain this without being wordy or just straight up messing up the explanation merely because games in this kind of genre are few and far between. You see instances of it in a few action games, but a real system is rarely utilized, outside of QTEs, which don't really count. EA's FightNight has a system where you can counter, but its at its core a fighting game, and again, its an instance where that one counter mechanism is similar to what I'm trying to do, but still not exactly the execution I'm looking for. There must be a better way...)
Anyway, if you can give me some turn-based fighting game names, I would appreciate it. I hope I was clear enough in my explanation. Thank you for reading all the way down here... (and also, sorry for over analyzing simple RPG rule structures and writing about them in an overly wordy "written diarrhea" form, haha.)
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If you turn it up, you can hear what Sonic 4's music sounds like, and the see the level names.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976
Sounds like they're using classic sonic sounding synth collection for the soundtrack. The snare, most of all, reminds me of my childhood.
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haha, yes, thank you, Gollgagh.
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Honestly though, tiny-text and resolution issues aside, I kind of feel like new games developed for HD look more realistic in SD since all the detail gets obscured by the limitations of the resolution. It gives the appearance of the image having MORE detail than it would on a console developed to utilize 480p. Hideo Kojima said something similar years ago when HD was just a novelty and MGS4 was still in production. Of course Heavy Rain will be playable in SD, but like Zipp said, their is so much detail in the graphics, you just can't fully appreciate all the details unless you view it in HD. The game will stellar regardless of resolution, clearly.
I wouldn't trade my HD capability for anything, in fact, playing anything in SD just feels awkward and (I REALLY hate to use this term) "last-gen." I've been spoiled with HD gaming and movies for so long now, I guess it was bound to happen eventually. Playing my Wii just is weird sometimes after watching TV or playing a game in HD because of the loss in quality and sharpness.
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Thanks man. I may go ahead and try to add a few more parts here and there... it is abysmally short, you're right...
hmm...
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These two games never get old for me:
1. StarFox 64
2. Sin and Punishment (Wii/N64 Virtual Console)
3. Einhander
Oddly enough, two of those N64 titles with very similar on-rails gameplay. *shrugs*
Damn they're all crazy fun!! And I think it's the fact that each level is quick enough to enjoy as "bite sized snacks." I don't have to wade through cutscenes and stuff to play. I just jump in, and we're good!
Sidenote: That's why I'm super excited for Sin and Punishment 2... supposed to be out pretty soon and the core gameplay looks fantastic! It looks like it might become one of those fun stand-by games that I can just pop in and have fun with.
EDIT: THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID! HEY-O!
Also it just occurred to me that I posted pretty much the same thing 2.5 years ago in the same freakin' thread.... damn it. >_< Oh how time flies.
also:
*makes fist*
*rotates forearm upward*
Jamm Stunna... StarFox solidarity bro. That game is just too much fun.
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awesome stuff man. Killer.
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Don't get me wrong, I want to own the game (and I will) but I'm just not as enthusiastic about it as I was after playing the demo. Some of these scenes in the demo were really cool, but the walking is clumsy for as cinematic as the game is aiming to be. Moreover, the voice acting doesn't really match up with the facial expressions (non-verbal emotions) of the characters at times, particularly the woman in the first demo stage, which broke the immersion for me at times. The voice acting didn't feel on the button at all times, either. In all these instances, it broke the immersion for me since the game tries so damn hard to looking real. It looks great, but small details really stick out when they don't look natural, and I guess that's just the uncanny valley for you.
I see how this game could have a really interesting story-based experience (the story is what this game is about after all) but it just feels like it's missing some of the polish I've become used to AAA games, merely because its trying to be so realistic. Again, every time I had to make my character walk I lost the immersion... I had to try and make the walking look natural on my end by using the controller, which honestly isn't my responsibility as the player.
I hate to make film comparisons but the demo almost felt like an indie art film. I enjoyed the demo all in all, but it definitely lacks polish in a few small areas.
Still will be a day one purchase for me.
Hell, if those are the only flaws then I can deal, since the rest of the experience was stellar. The game offered a lot of intense situations that were really compelling to play through. At the end of the demo, I wanted to know more, which is the mark of an interesting story.
EDIT: Maybe my loss of immersion can be solved by playing the game longer lengths. Maybe I'm just not used to the way the game works yet... its definitely not traditional (in a good way: it's a breath of fresh air). I don't want to come across like I didn't enjoy the game, but I noticed (after the fact) that my post was mostly negative words. So no hate, here!
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http://www.strike911.net/Strike911-FunkyFresh.mp3
OKAY, let me preface EVERYTHING ELSE by saying this was inspired by a few choice songs from Sonic 1-3S&K, but after the fact the mix took a mind of its own. There was a lot of chatter about Sonic in the general board, and I starting remembering how great the music was, and while this isn't nearly as awesome as the music from those games, it originally started as something trying to emulate the funky style of a few tracks, particularly Mystic Cave, Chrome Gadget, and a Hydrocity. You'll never hear it in the track, but they were my inspirations. Again, the mix ended up as something a little different, and I'm glad for that, but I don't even know what genre to classify it as.
Anyhoo, I hope you people dig some funkiness. I don't know that the track even resembles a Sonic track at all now, but... I'm cool with that.
Still a WIP, so if you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it. I had a difficult time picking synths for a few parts, so hopefully that doesn't show. >_<
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That is awesome. Insta-fave.
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Not liking the fake guitar. And if it's real... well it sounds really fake.
Yeah, the guitar is not real... 100% without a doubt (I've been trying to emulate an electronic guitar through VSTs and get that similar sound... the waveforms have the same start every time on each different sound).
... that said, the guitar sounds decent for it not being the real thing, and the mix itself is pretty sweet.
I had never heard any of these, so thanks for posting.
sidenote...
I wish I could make rock tracks. :_(
Games similar to Hybrid Heaven, Toribash, Rose&Camellia. Turn-based fighters
in General Discussion
Posted
I couldn't program for my life, lol. This was built in an open-source game development utility called Construct. All I know is that it uses Direct-X and people can program games in Python for added custom stuff. I just use the program itself and its GameMaker like interface.
I'm not a programmer so yeah... I'd like to think of myself as a game designer, but people with tags like that are a dime a dozen... non-technical hobbyist maybe? lol.
*shrugs*