SotSS

Oh man, I completely forgot about Kirby. I'd also like to know how he's doing in Brawl. And thanks for the answers (and the video) already provided guys.

Pardon my ignorance, I'm not at all a hardcore-smash player but I never thought that he was any good and I've never known anyone who did either; I just thought it was general knowledge that he sucked. Anyone have any cool Melee Bowser videos showcasing him not sucking I could review? Not that I'm too lazy to look myself, it's just that all I can find are either "character X owns 3 bowsers!!1!!" or videos of a Bowser player beating some newb (hardly an amazing display of Bowser skill) and nothing of a genuinely good Bowser player actually doing well against another player who doesn't completely suck.

I have a couple questions for those who have played Brawl already: how is Bowser? Is he a viable character now, or does he still suck? And how is Mario's water gun? I heard before that it was practically worthless in the demo and I'm wondering if they fixed that for the final release or not...

Personally I thought the ending was hilarious.

I have a question similar to the one in the OP, and since his question has been answered and I don't want to start a whole new thread for this, I might as well ask it here. Take a quick listen to the lead guitar in this part of the song Another Creation by the band Mors Principium Est. http://www.mediafire.com/?dtmjtgwguyc I'm pretty sure that this melody, or at least a slightly altered form of it, is found in some video game. The problem is that I have no idea what game, but I'm sure I've heard it before, and I feel like it's something obvious; something I should know. Anyone else have a clue?

from Final Fantasy IV: Piano Collections.Faraway Promise, Gathering Stars in the Night Sky (Link , ), and The Treasure Which Cannot be Stolen from Xenogears.

Sweet. I hope it makes the cut. VG melodeath would be awesome.

I guess a lot of this depends on how we determine whether or not a newly added element (such as an additional instrument) changes a song enough to warrant it being placed in its own distinct genre/sub-genre. How many new elements must be added, and/or to what degree must those new element(s) be integrated with the music in order for the music to be classified as it's own distinct genre/sub-genre? Unfortunately, trying to tell when the change(s) is (are) enough in number and/or degree to warrant the creation of a new, distinct genre/sub-genre is kind of like trying to determine when a heap of sand can no longer be considered a heap. I guess you could try to remove the element(s) in question and ask if what remains is all that different, at it's core, from the music in which it finds it's origins. For example, remove the symphonic elements of Within Temptation and ask if whats left can be easily classified within the same genre as the other bands/music that their work is ultimately based off of. If so, this would be a good sign that the creation of a new sub-genre is probably unnecessary and unwarranted, as the symphonic elements are merely ad-hoc additions to an already existent genre. However, if we remove their symphonic elements and find out that the remaining music is structurally discernible from the music it originates from, this would be a good sign that these elements have been integrated into their music to such a degree that it has altered one or more of the basic, defining aspects of their metaphorical "parents" in a meaningful way, and thus it probably deserves to be placed in it's own distinct category. This, however, begs the question of whether or not the elements in question even need to alter the core defining aspects of it's parents in order to be given it's own distinct classification. However, if we assume that the ad-hoc addition of one or more elements to an already predefined genre is enough in and of itself to warrant the creation of a new, distinct sub-genre, then we really haven't gotten anywhere, as new questions such as "How many ad-hoc additions are needed?" and "What property(-ies) must these additional elements possess in order for the creation of a new sub-genre to be warranted?" inevitably arise, which just makes things more confusing. As what constitutes a "meaningful alteration" to the music in question is ultimately unknown to me, in part due to my overall lack of knowledge of music theory, as well as my lack of knowledge of some of the "defining aspects" of Within Temptation's musical parents, it's hard for me to really determine if they and their peers deserve their own sub-genre, which means that I should probably stay out of this discussion (if this long ass post hasn't ended the conversation already ).

I never really thought too hard about it, but this makes sense to me. Thinking about all of the different bands with symphonic elements, I notice that there is a lot of diversity between them. For instance, Estatic Fear, Skyfire (Mind Revolution in particular) and Nightwish have a lot of notable differences between them, yet all of them have enough symphonic elements to warrant the "symphonic metal" label. However, none of those bands are strait up "symphonic metal," as they are all part something else as well (doom, black, goth, power, what have you) and I can't really think of any band that is entirely "symphonic metal" and not "symphonic power metal" or "symphonic doom metal" or what have you. I think that "symphonic" is better off being a term that indicates a bands usage of symphonic elements to go along with whatever genre of metal they are playing, rather than being a genre in and of itself.

Check out some of these bands and then come back and tell me it's all just noise: Sepia Dreamer Scale the Summit Alcest Agalloch Be'lakor Orphaned Land Slumber Estatic Fear Daylight Dies Of course there are countless more bands (Opeth, Insomnium, Garden of Shadows, Hanging Garden, Ne Obliviscaris, plus a million more) from a variety of different genres of metal who's music could not be described by any rational person as simply noise, and these are (mostly) bands who have harsh death/black vocalists as the only/primary form of vocals. Throw in genres with plenty of clear vocals (like power and symphonic metal, both of which have already been mentioned a billion times) and you'll quickly find that metal is full of stuff that goes well beyond the angry, brutal, blood-and-guts, kill everyone while giving praise to Satan stuff that most people think of when they think of metal. Of course, none of this means that you have to like it, but it does mean that you'll look foolish to those who know better when you disregard an entire, highly-diversified genre of music as simply non-musical noise. ------------------------------ And now on a more revelent to this thread note, good find with Otep Codycrusader. I had heard of the band before, but I have never actually heard anything by them, and I didn't know they had a female vocalist either.

I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes AE, but going by what I've read in some interviews/reviews, her voice was processed on the last few albums, but on Rise Of The Tyrant her voice is mostly untouched. You can definitely tell a difference between this album and their last two, but her vocals aren't really any worse, so I'd say that she has some real talent.

I looked around a little but it doesn't look like there's anywhere to listen to it freely. However, it does sound a good deal like "The Unwelcome Savior," except the verses are more melodic, and the chorus sounds more epic (as does the song as a whole), so if you liked "The Unwelcome Savior" you should like it as well. EDITED TO ADD: A band I forgot to mention that is worth checking out is Estatic Fear. They have a clean female vocalist who kind of reminds me of pixietricks (at least she was the first one to come to mind when I heard A Sombre Dance) and a male vocalist who sings mostly in a black metal rasp. They play what is essentially symphonic doom metal with some folk and classical music infused for good measure. Beside the typical guitar/drum/bass, there is a lot of lute, flute, cello and piano as well. Unless you absolutely despise the male vocalist or slower paced music in general, I see no reason why anyone could fail to like this band. Awesome stuff.

Wow, Deerhoof's drummer may not be the best drummer in the world, but he puts on a hell of a show. I love it. Drummers are usually boring to watch (masters of the trade such as Buddy Rich and Michael Mangini are exceptions, of course), but I like his energy.

Aside from Arch Enemy, there is: Shadow: A melodeath band from Japan. They only ever made one album (self-titled) and then suddenly they disappeared, but it's a good album if you like In Flames Whoracle era melodeath. Light This City: A metalcore band from the U.S. Their vocalist is female and a pretty good lyricist (read the lyrics to "The Eagle" for a good example of quality lyric writing). EDIT: Here's a music video of one of their newer songs. Darkestrah: A black metal band from Germany. Their latest is more melodic and atmospheric (akin to Two Hunters from Wolves In The Throne Room), while their older stuff is a little more kvlt. EDIT: Heres a live video from 2006. Thats all I can think of at the moment.

Speaking of balance... does Bowser still suck, or has he been improved? Does anyone know?

Song: Keep The Secret Band: Dune Band Information: http://www.danceartistinfo.com/dune.htm Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4PRbbhGm-E&feature=related Enjoy.