[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Many people here like games with budgets and that aren't either time wasters and/or derivative rip-offs of better games.

Indie doesn't mean Casual. If you only like games with large budgets, then you aren't really into indie gaming. Also insinuating that Indie games are just ripoffs of better games is kinda offensive. A lot of them are more unique and fun than produced by the big guys. That is the whole point.

Many people at this point in the console generation already own probably 3 devices that can do exactly what the Ouya wants to do, with MUCH more established distribution models. One of which(Steam), offers exactly what the Ouya offers to indie devs(free licensing among other things) and is already a haven for this sort of thing.

As I mentioned, if a person dont want to support Indie gaming, that person already own all the consoles, and nothing comes to Ouya of that persons interest, then the console isn't for that particular person. Not a big deal, some people only even buy 1 console. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be options

Also, I don't believe Steam licensing is free. Greenlight may have changed that, but regular Steam licensing isn't free. And Steam isn't a console. See my other posts about the other distro models.

Unless Ouya manages to cast a HUGE marketing net, I don't see how it'll break out more sales than just the 60k backers that originally supported it.

Well they made a pretty big splash on Kickstarter and gaming news.

Neblix:

I'm simply providing counter arguments / information. I've never said Ouya would be gigantically successful or anything. But I can point out the obvious things people seem to be missing, over and over.

Again, as stated before (sigh), if you are an Android dev, you should already be looking to make sure your game is working on as many devices possible anyways

Saying devs will simply ignore "Free Money" is a very odd argument. It is possible I guess, but if people are arguing devs want money uh.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

I am yet to see a compelling argument that this is true.

Put game on Ouya. Have some sort of revenue for it for it (Charge for it, Free 2 Play, Ads, etc). You've made money.

Not sure what there is to "argue".

Just because a big name company may not be able to spend millions on an exclusive AAA title on the Ouya doesn't mean nobody can make money. It is not for that.

It is specifically targeted as a console for small devs to make games on, at extremely lower costs than it does the big consoles

Also as I've mentioned, so so so many times. Big or small, if you have a game on Android, then you already have a game for Ouya, and putting it there is essentially free money.

Also if you are building a game, on any platform, with Unity (one of the leading multiplatform game making tools):

They are also partnered with Ouya, so theres probably going to be an option for Ouya. Again, basically "Free Money" outside of the cost of the Unity license to do so.

If you can't understand that "compelling argument" then nothing I can do for you :/

Kind of tiring repeating myself over and over.

Many of us aren't casual gamers.

Well I'd be fooled by the general lack of knowledge of the subject matter. Not sure what "Casual Gamers" has to do with the conversation, unless this is one of your "jokes".

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

I don't know of a game that can be put to market in less than three man-months and no outside resources. Opportunity cost is a cost; if a developer isn't at least making that back, it's not fiscally responsible for them to create games.

I think you are still thinking too big.

You can make a game in your bedroom in your spare time.

Not sure why we are using a 3 month timespan but there are several compos where indies make games in a short amount of time and release them for free.

Its more than possible.

"Has games that you could play on your phone/tablet" is not the draw of the system. "Has a real controller" is a draw. There is /literally/ no reason to get one if games on it wont make reasonable use of the controls -- the only benefit you get from it.

There are lots of games that come out on Android (and iOS) that use an on screen controller and suck because of it. Remove the on-screen controller, use a real one, problem solved?

I fail to see how "it's an indie console" means "developers ignore money". Business is business.

I fail to see why a game company, large or especially small, would ignore money, of any ammount? You can make money on Ouya. Its basically free money if you already have your product on Android

Perhaps he would listen to you if you actually decided to remain on-topic rather than make personal comments. You're basically saying to him "What you're saying is valid, but since I don't like you, I'm going to insult you to make it look like I'm still having an argument to make." He was talking about Ouya from a business standpoint because this is a thread about Ouya.

Eh, I dont think hes made hardly any valid points honestly. Not really insulting him either

Also, he wasn't talking about Ouya, and if he was, I wasn't talking about Ouya when he entered the conversation I was having at the time (which was about devs making games with no money, again, nothing to do with Ouya) and started saying what he was saying, which is completely unrelated to Ouya too. Did you forget the conversation too?

You both need to reread then. Nobody else seems to agree

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

They need to sell enough units to make their platform worthwhile to acknowledge for developers. 70k is an exceptionally low number. At that number, even 'major hits' would likely not provide any return on investment. Especially with free-to-play numbers.

That would be true if A) this was a major console release it wasn't aimed at Indies C) Android didn't already exist and didn't have a huge amount of developers already

You realize that $0.25 ARPU is pretty good for free-to-play, right? Let's be generous and say that they get $0.50 ARPU and /saturate/ the market (which is essentially impossible, especially with a non-zero number of people who want one only to play SNES games). That's only $35k for a miracle game.

Well thats just the initial batch numbers, you act as if nobody will ever buy one in the future. Also as Dhsu pointed out, those numbers only if your game is completely "Free to Play" which is not required (minimum requirement is a free demo). Also you are not considering that is on top of the numbers you are already making off of Google Play if you already have the game on the Android platform.

Games cost more than that to make. If even the unicorns can't make back their opportunity cost, why would anyone bother with it?

Uh, as previously discussed, depends on the game/developer really. If you've spent next to nothing making the game, getting anything back is profit.

I really don't get why people keep ignoring that this is an Indie game console and the fact Google Play exists. I keep making these same statements but doesn't seem to click with anybody :/

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

1. if they sell the system at a loss they're NOT going to make it back in game profits and licensing costs because the entire point of this goddamn system is to have really low licensing costs to give profit to the indie developers. that point is moot. you can't really play that one from both sides.

Well, really low does not mean none at all. Theres a difference between charging developers a small fee (like $99/year for iOS and $25 for Android) and requiring tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars per game license (XBLA/PSN).

Also theres a huge difference in how much money they need to "make back" off these units compared to the big guys. They dont need to make back tons of RD for custom expensive chip designs and/or new media formats, nor do they need to make back money from millions of units they created at LESS THAN COST which is what MS/Sony do at launch.

But since we dont know if they are making profit or not at $99 I couldn't tell you. I doubt they are charging less than cost though

And I can play from any side I want. You aren't the boss of me!

2. i've seen this in multiple places, ouya has said they're not looking for other investors outside kickstarter. they clearly had money before it happened but unless something changed they're not raising anymore after it.

Well, I've pointed out the Kickstarter isn't really their funding capital. So we are in agreement there i guess?

And they said they weren't going to run out and contact venture capitalists immediately after the Kickstarter.. but I wouldn't say "never" in the future.

four of the companies you listed i've even heard of before

Well at least you admit you don't know about the indie scene. !

Doesn't really matter if YOU dont know about them, they exsist, have popular games, and have pledged some sort of support for the console. It doesn't matter what "investment" they have. If they are publicly speaking with Ouya and putting their name out, they would not consider it a con wouldn't you think? Same goes for SE and Namco Bandai. Why would they be announcing anything, at all, if it was a complete con? Whether a product comes out is irrelevant (but since they already have android products out, why would they not?)

and four just for you crowbar

JUST FOR MEEE!

As far as the conversation you are still trying to backpedal out of, but for some reason bringing up again, anybody can see if they read this thread you are full of it and that wasn't what we were talking about. Keep trying to backpedal but you aren't doing a good job of it. I wouldn't bring it up again, it just makes you look odd

FYI (Since you seem to have blocked it out of memory): The conversation at that point was about developers making games with low/no budgets. How this directly related to Ouya's costs of producing a game system, and why you insist you were talking about this when you said Cave Story was a waste of time to be made when it was released free, I have no idea. The conversations are almost completely unrelated, and I can't figure out how you are linking them, and how you still think you are in the right either way.

Oh and uh I dont think Cave Story is just "my" favorite game. I'm pretty sure a large portion of the gaming community, especially people who play indies, has it as one their favorites, including the people who called you out on your BS here at OCR.

If you havn't played it, maybe you should? Then feel bad for what you said Mister.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Nexus 7 also doesn't have a controller.

Controllers relatively are dirt cheap, they are only marked up high by console manufacturers to return huge profits to offset the loss of the cost of hardware.

As far as shipping, they dont have to ship to stores at first like most products (not sure if they ever plan on shipping to stores?), Im pretty sure only the Kickstarters are getting shipping free anyways. When the console gets released, you'd be paying for shipping

I really do not think they plan on manufacturing a million units any time soon. They only need enough to cover preorders and the Kickstarter for launch

Without knowing how much they had on hand before Kickstarter and how much they may obtain afterwards, its kinda hard to tell if they can pull all this off, but it will be a challenge for sure.

But a lot of people seem to be under the impression that A) Kickstarter is where ALL their capital is coming from and They are going to launch like a standard console

Neither are true

Since when is Mojang a big name? They made a successful game. Doesn't make them a "big name". They're a pretty small company.

I said big and small. Regardless, Mojang has a lot of money to play around with right now for an indie. Their name is pretty huge in the Indie circle and well beyond.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

really? 'if something that has similar specs is 200 dollars i can't see why they can't sell ouya for half the price.' just look at that for a few minutes.

Uh, maybe you missed the part where I said Ouya doesn't have a screen, battery, camera, etc. You know, things that make Nexus 7 expensive to produce?

nor is square enix saying they'll make a final fantasy port anywhere near 'big name support.'

So youre saying Square Enix, Namco Bandai, Mojang, Robotki, Plex, Team XBMC, TwitchTV, OnLive, SemiSecret, SpryFox, MADFINGER, etc are all in on the con?

Highly possible. But I'll assume not.

what you guys all gave me shit for and 'backpedaling on' is that from a business standpoint this system has no future.

Yeah that was it. Completely. Not an entirely different conversation, Nope.

Also, it has the same possible future as ANY device released with Android apps/games as a backbone. Most of them do well enough on their own

the more i think about it the less realistic it becomes for them to be able to do it, with that 9 million dollars they're manufacturing many of these systems at no revenue; they're using the money people paid for their systems with as investment money, meaning at launch day they're essentially giving away several thousands of systems for free.

That depends on if $99 is "cost" and no profit at all. Also, youre forgetting this is similar to what console manufacturers do, release an item at cost or less than cost, get the money back via accessories (Ouya controllers, supports up to 4), and game/license agreements (Ouya is taking a % of game sales,)

Also, you dont know how much money they had before or will get after the Kickstarter. From what it looks like, the Kickstarter was just a big advertisement/preorder campain. Seems like it worked

Building a content delivery network to support the product in time for launch?

Its possible they will just use a custom frontend to Google Play, though it hasn't been stated anywhere yet if this device will be Google Certified for Google Play yet. If it doesn't use Google Play in any way, that will be quite the challenge. Though it is also possible they already have this network up before they started the Kickstarter.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

If the entire Nexus 7 can be offered at $200 now I dont see why Ouya cant be around the $100 figure 9mo to a year from now. It doesn't have screen, battery, camera, etc. Also, "similar" (but less powerful) products are being offered around $100 (Roku, Apple TV, Vizio's new Google TV box, etc). Heck, Rasberry Pi mentioned here, is $25.

Maybe not $99 on the dot, but I dont see why double, that is as much as the 360 currently costs.

Neblix: There are always evil people in the world looking to con anybody into anything. Technically theres nothing really stopping kickstarters from conning people once they complete the kickstarter and meet goal.

Though you don't generally have this much support from the general gaming community and industry (both indie and big name) if you are a complete con.

Here's just hoping they can do what they say they want to. It'll be awesome if they can

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

The big game companies have to R&D their own chips, push expensive technology thats usually not actually around, have to develop dev kit models / software and work with 3rd party devs for getting games built and/or exclusive to their own system for launch, develop a BIOS/OS and Copyright protection procedure, manufacture tons of units and get ready for worldwide launches, etc etc

None of this applies to Ouya. Tegra 3 already exsists. None of the technology here is new or unique. Android (OS) already exsists. Their SDK will heavily rely on the SDK already provided by Google for Android I'm sure, and devs dont need a "transition period" because Android has been out for quite some time. Their target audience is much smaller, and basically right now "whoever already bought it"

As far as the tight schedule, yes, it is quite tight, they may have a problem, they may not. Depends on how far they were before they Kickstarted I suppose

Not saying its not a scam, still could be for all I know, but comparing them to other consoles doesn't make any sense as far as how long it takes to come to market

[New Final Fantasy VII PC Port is happening]

One Winged Angel (PSX)

One Winged Angel (XG)

One Winged Angel (2012)

The Terror.

[New Final Fantasy VII PC Port is happening]

The original PC port's MIDIs combined with the Yamaha XG synth they were designed to be played on actually sounded better than the original game's samples by a landslide IMO, with the exception of the missing OWA lyrics. But who knows if the versions in this new port were recorded using that synth or not (for that matter, there's much better sample sets nowadays anyway).

Sadly, it does not even appear to be Yamaha XG. Either way, I still perfer the originals soundtrack over the XG version from what I've heard, the instruments seem slow, muffled, or just off timed.

The good news is that since its Ogg, you can just mod the music (which someone already has modded the original OST back in) but why should you have to do that on a new release?

Also, more fun news, SecuROM DRM apparently has limited activations.

PSX -

Fighting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcsEfkNeRm0

Still More Fighting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSxKxCz9M4s

Old PC Release on XG -

Fighting -

Still More Fighting -

New PC Release (2012) OGG:

Fighting -

Still More Fighting -

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Rasberry Pi is very neat, but as already stated, definitely not a console and not something your average joe can pick up and play games on. No controller either. Its really popular among hobbyists though, worth checking out if you like fiddling with junk and want to do a DIY media/console/thing. Someone was even working on an Android ICS build for it, and Team XBMC is also working on it! Power side, its kinda lacking with 700Mhz and 256MB RAM, but GPU is supposed to be half decent (though obviously no Tegra 3). Still a great tool for a hobbyist to fool around with.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Now speaking of new additions to the conversation:

I thought this was probably the case but Ouya has confirmed the console supports up to four controllers.

Namco Bandai is in active discussions with Ouya and plan on taking votes on what games you would like to see on it on their Facebook at some point, if you do that kind of thing

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

in order. wrong, wrong

Oh okay, glad you elaborated. I must be wrong then

good work at reading a mission statement and forgetting that you can't do that for free

Mission statement says nothing about it doing it for free. Ouya will take cut of profits devs make, this is the same exact way Android/iOS works, as stated multiple times.

i really shouldn't have to make that distinction

When the subject you are talking about, and the subject we were discussing , are completely different, yes. You do. Even if you claim that is what you meant, it still makes absolutely no sense in or out of context. Its still shallow no matter HOW you think about it.

I've detailed everything and said "here is where you are wrong" every post. Right now its clear you are just back pedaling and/or trolling and its been really a waste of time to try to decipher your so called "points" so if this was your last post on the matter, thank goodness! Maybe we can get some more people who want to add to the discussion, AND know what they are talking about.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

People's hobbies and pastimes aren't worthless, it'd be stupid to say they are

Yet this is exactly what you said.

But a COMPANY, that's trying to make MONEY, doesn't make games for free without having some sort of way of making profit, such as sponsorship or hope of future employment.

All of you who seem to think I'm going back on my words are making no distinction between business practices (what we've all been talking about) and personal practices.

Yeah, back pedaling. "oh yeah i was just referring to companies who are trying to money" when the conversation wasn't anything about that and you made no distinction.

Not sure how everyone missed that Ouya is kind of based on profit and success, not people's hobbies.

I guess you missed part of the main mission statement of getting a cheap way for bedroom programmers and hobbyists to make games on consoles? They even talk about how easy it is to hack, again a hobbyist activity.

You don't seem to know ANYTHING about the subject matter.

Its an Indie console. Its being very widely advertised as one.

Where do you keep seeing "WE ONLY WANT BIG BUSINESS AND TONS OF PROFITS!"?

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Well, that is kinda just picking at words. But more accurately, I'd want anybody to fix it (and I'm sure I'm not alone). Ouya is the first stepping up to the plate, or at least, claiming to do so. We shall see how this pans out

EDIT:

I support the idea. I have no idea if this company can pull it off. I have never said anything to that matter. I am simply supporting the concepts, and defending the concepts in general. It could work out, if someone was serious about it. These people could be just scam artists for all I know. But the IDEA is great.

Cave Story: The fact his game got popular enough that people took notice does not counter the fact he created the game for free without intention of profit or even getting noticed. Hes a very humble japanese guy who just wanted to make the game. It didn't even get picked up for a commercial release for 5+ years. You are still saying the game is only of value NOW because hes making money, and if he didn't, it was a waste of time. There are plenty of freeware indies that don't get this popular. They are not wastes of time to be created, nor is the original Cave Story. To say they all only made the games to get noticed is pretty shallow. Their "Personal Benefit" is the joy of creation, and the joy of people enjoying their work.

And there are plenty of people who make games as a hobby. You don't seem to know much about this subject yet you keep on going on. I've even provided links, yet you continue to ignore.

Again I can only think you are trolling at this point. Or at the very least, very unaware of anything but making money and big business.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

I have nothing for or against the idea - such an idea could possibly be successful with a strong enough team, or at least successful enough to be attractive to Google or Apple to enter the foray, which I suspect will happen in the future. The linked article above gives me strong doubts that this is the team that would execute correctly though.

You know interestingly enough, Google's Nexus Q was mysteriously delayed during this Ouya deal, and even weirder as an appology they are sending out free 2nd Q's. It kinda made me think maybe they saw the popularity with Ouya and thought about retooling it to support gaming (like having a controller bundled, supporting Ouya, etc). But thats probably just wishful thinking / reading too much into it / completely unrelated. Its only about as powerful as the Galaxy Nexus which I dont think has as much muscle as the Ouya would of had. It would be nice if Google made a Nexus console out of the stuff they have in the Nexus 7 or better

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

true. on the other hand all of those people who release freeware do it on pc. nobody who releases freeware does it on a console (i.e. ouya) because while they may make a game for the love, they do NOT PAY to make a game for the love.

Maybe you are not familiar (even though I've already stated it) with how it costs thousands of dollars to just get a dev kit, and tens of thousands of dollars to get your content onto said consoles? I really dont understand how you could not see this as a problem. Its not that they "DO NOT PAY" its that its impossible for an average bedroom dev to afford. The ONLY affordable console option at this point is XBLIG which MS barely treats their XBLA devs right, let alone XBLIG. People are more than willing to pay to put their products out if its of reasonable cost of entry, as seen from iOS/Android/XBLIG. Free, paid, or in between.

Also, there are devs making homebrew for cracked consoles/handhelds. But thats a very underground activity with an extremely narrow audience. It still counters your point that "nobody who releases freeware does it on a console"

Probably not relevent but: some of the more wealthier indies, who did manage to come up with the cash, have made releases on XBLA/PSN (Braid, Super Meat Boy, FEZ), and created games they love on a console. No its not freeware, but the focus of the point isn't freeware (you can make money on Ouya), its creating something you wanted to make, and doing it on a low/no budget, on a console, and paying for it. If you've seen Indie Game The Movie, Super Meat Boy developers (two guys in their bedrooms) risked pretty much everything just to get the game THEY wanted to make on a console. It shouldn't be that hard, and these people actually had the insane amount of money it takes. An Ouya dev wouldn't have to go through that.

My total point being:

You can make a game without a lot of money. You can make a game without charging. You cannot do either of these, let alone both, effectively on a console. Ouya should fix that.

If 50.000 people buy Ouya, that's not a success.

Why not? That is still a market of 50,000 people to buy a game that didn't exsist before, and has potential to increase in the future. Its also a market of people you know would probably be interested in indie games.

not even close.

Hard to take someone who says Cave Story, IJI, etc were a waste of time to be created seriously.

People who play games on their phone aren't going to spend 100 dollars to play similar games on their tv, and existing console owners aren't going to spend 100 dollars to play a similar market of games as Xbox Arcade/PSN.

For "similar games on TV" : Apple TV, Google TV, Roku, and OnLive are products that already exsist and sell fine. This should be better than those devices for gaming.

And you'd get MORE than whats on XBL/PSN obviously, XBL/PSN has an extremely high barrier to entry so not everybody can afford to put their games on it.

But you know what? Someone looking for a dirt cheap console with tons of cheap and/or free games? I bet they'd pay $100 over paying $200 for $60 a pop games and/or $15 downloads. And any indie fans should buy this simply to support the cause

Not Relevent: Google is soon releasing a product (Nexus Q) for $300 thats basically an amp for playing lossy mp3s (as of this moment doesn't support lossless formats like FLAC) on a nice stereo system. It has some video options (movies, youtube, a visualizer for your audio), but doesn't even do many basic Google TV like functions. So "what people will pay for" is subjective

[New Final Fantasy VII PC Port is happening]

So... FFVII leaked onto Square's store and was pulled... from what people have seen so far:

Ogg files present in the game are recorded MIDIs off probably a sound card or synth, instead of the original PSX sound track. This includes OWA which is completely missing its lyrics.

Videos are upscaled versions of the original PSX videos (possibly with extra compression added to make them look worse)

Also contains SecuROM DRM.

GOOD JOB SQUARE!

Maybe fixing? Probably not.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

A person who wants to create something can create something purely for the joy of creating. You can write music (See freaking OCR), paint, build, and yes, create a videogame, simply because you enjoy doing it and/or want others to enjoy your work. Some people do obviously enjoy making it a living and being compensated for their work, but to say its impossible and that nobody does it for free or makes games with a small/no budget is a complete falsehood. I provided you with a link of a small database with 500+ games that were created with probably little to no budgets, all released completely free. At the very least the first couple pages are great games. Cave Story is still a prime example, and one of the best games I've ever played.

Regardless, one "Personal Benefit" of making your game on Ouya is obviously money. Easy money if you are already making Android games, stated plenty of times here by me and others. I'm not even sure where your path of thinking is going.

At this point I think you are just trolling.

another thing you're all not thinking of is low barrier to entry means lower standard of quality.

Okay? Look at Android/iOS. Yes there are countless, countless bad apps. But there are plenty of good ones too. They did well? I think of this as simply an extension of the Android ecosystem anyways.

Its not like there is a huge "standard of quality" on even the big platforms, look at the junk that winds up on Wii/PS3/360.

EDIT:

I keep forgetting to mention this, but since people seem to be skipping over the fact this is an Android based device I'll add this to the mix:

If you are an Android developer, you should already be trying to make your games/apps work on different platforms already. There is no one set hardware for Android, so the more options you put in, the more hardware you support, the more your product will be on different types of hardware, and the more it will sell. This includes Screen Resolutions, Devices with or without keyboards, and entire sub divisions of like Phones, Tablets, Google TV, etc etc. Adding Ouya into the mix should not derail the norm for an avid Android dev already trying to push their products on as many devices as possible.

Zircon is spot on. The more ways you can sell your product, the more you obviously make. As long as the return is bigger than the investment, it is money in your pocket whether it sells tons more or just a little.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

congratulations to him. unless it got him a job that was a complete waste of time.

nobody puts hours and hours into making a game for no personal benefit whatsoever. implying that it's often done, or even done at all, would be ignorant.

Wait, so your saying all the small time indie devs who make fantastic games are all wasting their time simply because there is no personal benefit? Wow. Talk about ignorant.

Also CAVE STORY is a complete waste of time to have been made? Are you out of your damn mind?

SO WHY IS IT SPECIAL OR IMPORTANT, IF IT'S ALREADY DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

XBL is extremely expensive in both getting your game on (publish), development (dev kit), and upkeep (updates/new content all require tens of thousands of dollars each certification). Thats why? Have you not been paying attention?

EDIT:

Also to cure your vast lack of knowledge of the indie scene, I'd like to point you to this:

TIGSource Indie DB

Just a small database of how wrong you are. For your convenience, I've selected "Top" and "Freeware"

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Do you have a point to the post then? CaveStory+ a remake co-developed and released by Nicalis on Wii, and later Steam, neither of them free or cheap to publish, one not cheap to develop for (Wii), charges money for the product.

Yes? I agree?

As stated in MY post: several years ago, Studio Pixel, a one man developer, made Cave Story in his spare time and released it free on the PC, where you can still get it for free.

I dont know what more to say

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Thats Cave Story+, the remake. Cave Story, the original, is still free. Nice try?

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Because there are better, larger, more established marketplaces to sell your games in for more money.

Larger/Better/More Established, and just as inexpensive to put your game on?

And uses the same codebase as Android?

Angry Birds comment was completely off the mark because you didn't read the details of what I was saying

I read the details, you were already countered by everybody else posts. I just added the fact its already on consoles / Google TV / Roku . I didn't feel the need to repeat what was already said by others, but if you would like I can?

That the games are free?

Correction: There is a push for access to free material. As in, at least a portion of the game free. This can range from Ad sponsored to Free 2 Play to Demo w/ Paid full version (like MC/Shadowgun/FFIII). Maybe you've been ignoring the booming mobile sector and PC market that has established this type revenue over the last few years? This is a lucrative market that makes tons of money for devs big and small.

Just because something is an Indie game doesn't mean it doesn't cost money to make. That's an ignorant suggestion that I hope neither you nor anyone will make.

Except for the fact there are tons of indies who release games absolutely free. Cave Story being a prime early example of a top quality product that had no funding, and didn't ask for a dime for years. Maybe you've heard of it? No, not all Indie devs are like this, but it is entirely possible to make a game funded with nothing but your will power.

[OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming]

Do you read?

What is this a counter argument to?

I don't even know what you are arguing anymore. If you aren't going to take whats on the kickstarter page, with just a small pool of the bigger indie developers listed, and the games they've already shown, AND the continous announcements of games being announced for OUYA, as "evidence", what would you take? Does there need to be a list of every indie developer in the world saying "Why yes, i am interested!"?

Heres a better question, I'll repeat: Why would ANY indie developer, especially if developing already on Android, NOT be interested in the first place?

You are pushing my words way too literally just to make some odd point that doesn't exsist. All I said was that I was sure any indie dev would be interested. Sorry I worded it in a way you didn't like?

I guess if you can't gain any footing on the other things (Coding, Input) might as well focus on something eh?