Cash
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Posts posted by Cash
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Only MP3 for this album? There's usually a flac version.
EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the disclaimer!
I'll post album comments later...
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Back when no effort was put into storylines, yeah, someone's girlfriend was kidnapped. It was just an excuse to have a game, and there was next to no characterization. (Double Dragon FTW!) In retrospect, the frequent use of helpless women is embarrassing just like old cartoons are embarrassing for racial stereotypes. Let's be more critical of newer games as they come.
Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it, like old, racist cartoons. Cartoons like this:
I'm more concerned about being able to choose to play as a female character and not look like a barbie doll in street clothes. As a rule for fantasy games if women are dressed up in what looks like metal bathing suits, I try to avoid it. Especially if the party travels through an ice level.My sister is also a gamer, and she's always happy to have the choice to play a female character. Most open world games (Skyrim), as well as RPG's with moral choices (Mass Effect), give you the option to be female, which is nice. I agree the metal bathing suit armor is silly, it's not really practical to go into battle with skimpy armor. Or to walk around in snow.
Also, Cash and Change, women are more adversely affected by this sexist trope and possibly, on the whole, more acutely aware of it, but they are not the sole arbiters of what's sexist or not. Anyone can give their point of view, and it's not like we've been somehow excluding women. I don't know the gender of half these people.I also didn't say women are the sole arbiters of sexism. Obviously women aren't because the word sexism refers to both sexes. I'll take into account opinions of men, myself included, but I feel that women would know best on this issue (within reason of course, perhaps not the best word choice). Perhaps there are more women in here, good point. Though I get the impression that there are mostly men, but I could be wrong. As for few responses to female input, I only said that because Vilecat posted earlier, in relation to why Anita talked about Mario and Zelda, yet no one really seemed to address the post. That was my impression, maybe I'm wrong.
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I guess we should treat women differently.
Seriously, though, why should we pay more attention to women? I suspect their opinions will vary as much as men's will. And if they do have a monolithic opinion, I guess that means they must agree with Anita Sarkeesian, huh?
You completely misinterpreted my post. You added on ideas that were not present. I did not say all women agree with Anita, nor did I say we should treat women differently. However, I would say a woman's opinion has more weight when discussing the treatment of women in video games. Just as the opinion of a gay man has more weight when discussing gay rights, than a straight man.
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So what's your point?
I thought my point was clear, it's a bad thing that very few people responded to the limited female input. Maybe if more people actually acknowledged when a woman posts, more women would participate in these types of discussions.
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This thread is still going? I swear I've seen the same points being made over and over again. And still almost no input from women. Why does that always happen in threads relating to sexism, women, and video games? When a women does post, very few people respond. It's a shame.
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That's EXACTLY my problem though. She's able to escape Ganon for 7 friggin' years, and all of a sudden she goes "Ohai I'm Zelda btw" which ends up getting her captured. She has the intelligence (and Impa's) to stay safe for this long. Why the hell did the Nintendo team who worked on this decided to make her get captured. It's frustrating as all f**ks.
And before any of you try to justify why, I just have to say this: they could've easily changed the story so she wouldn't have been caught yet could've been there to help you during the final battle.
This is true, they could have easily changed the story to avoid her capture. I agree it's stupid that she was captured right after her reveal. I see your point that it's even more frustrating because up until that point, Zelda was strong. Kind like a tease for female gamers, here's a strong women, but oh wait, just kidding.
Still, Link would have gone after Ganon anyway had Zelda not been kidnapped. The purpose all along was to defeat Ganon, Zelda's kidnapping was just added incentive. Plus, Ganon really only took her for the Triforce of Wisdom. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here...
When you think about it, why didn't Ganon take both of them and just win? Link clearly couldn't stop Zelda from being taken, why not taken him as well? Doesn't really make sense. I think an interesting twist would have been to have Zelda rescue Link. So instead Ganon grabs Link, and have Zelda storm the castle. I'd imagine that would have been more entertaining for Ganon.
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She can't just mention every single DiD instances of videogames though, there's a limit. I believe the ones she mentionned are some of the most well-known for the majority of gamers. Almost every gamer known at least what the story of those 2 series boils down to. Yes Zelda isn't as much of a culprit, like Anita said, but she still suffers from it greatly. OoT and WW are perfect examples. As soon as she revealed herself to the hero, she was basically back to the old "derp derp I can't do shit need help pl0x" bullshit formula.
With Ocarina of Time, I thought Zelda was strong throughout the game. She managed to escape the clutches of Ganondorf and remain hidden from him for seven years while link was in the Chamber of Sages. She disguised herself as Sheik and managed to help link along the way. Yes, Zelda was captured after she revealed herself, but that was at the end right before entering Ganondorf's castle. If you remember, when she was taken away in that crystal thing, it happened right in front of Link, and he was powerless to stop it. Then after beating Ganondorf, Zelda helps you escape, as well as helping you in the final battle against Ganon. I never got the vibe that Zelda was helpless, she seemed to be a strong character.
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You guys are going too deep with that stuff. I think everyone who commented in this thread is male unless I missed something. If we're going to start yelling at each other that none of us is qualified to talk about it then just close the thread.
That's just downright silly and the thread is rapidly going off course.Well, I didn't say men aren't qualified, I can't speak for anyone else though. I was just clarifying the concept of male privilege.
You hit on a good point though, just a bunch of dudes arguing over sexism towards women. I know there was a woman (Annie Felis) who posted earlier, but I haven't noticed more. It's kind of sad, and a little bit hilarious when you think about it. I'm curious as to why so few women have commented here.
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Male privilege is a thing, and academics who know a lot more about the subject than you or I talk about it seriously. I'm going go out on a limb and ask you to check your privilege.
I have to ask, what does it mean to "check your privilege"? As for the concept of male privilege, you also have to take into consideration race, sexual orientation, social class, and disability status.
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I want to be extra clear that I'm not trying to pigeon-hole everyone who voices disagreement with Anita as being one of the "trolls." The point of the above video, really, is that it's not good for our gaming community when we brush off the trolling as unimportant because it's "just trolls being trolls." Not that that's what Cash and Change was saying exactly-- I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth-- but I don't think it's healthy for our community when we help legitimize that kind of trolling or ascribe to it the most soft-ball, optimistic motives imaginable.
I want to be perfectly clear here. I am in no way legitimizing or justifying any form of trolling. I did not say it is unimportant, I think it's a problem. I no longer use voice chat when playing games online because of all the garbage I would hear. I only use voice when playing with friends, even then I still mute other players.
Saying something for the sole purpose of making another person angry doesn't sound like an optimistic motive if you ask me.
Certainly I like to give the benefit of the doubt to people, and sometimes trolls are best left ignored. But in the case of the tidal wave of hate that came for Anita before she even released her first video, it seems clear to me that that facet of the response to Anita has gone beyond a baseline level of trolling. Truly, the reaction to Anita's kickstarter has been so fierce and disproportionate to anything else I've seen, it's hard for me to accept that it's just trolls doing their thing. My faith in humanity has its limits.What is the proportion of the hate comments though? I took a look at her kickstarter YouTube video, there are more than 14,000 comments. I scrolled through 10 pages and could only find a few disgusting comments. From what I see, the worst comments are in the vast minority.
I don't know, I've heard death threats, rape threats, and threats of violence before in an effort to anger. Those types of comments are certainly not outside the realm of trolling. I think it's naive to assume trolling has limits. Again, this does not suggest that it's no big deal, or it should be tolerated. My point is that people will say anything to get a rise, no matter how misogynistic or threatening.
I guess my point is that it is impossible to determine the seriousness of threats from anonymous comments. We can argue all day about whether this is trolling, or something worse, but at the end of the day it's all just speculation.
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Hmm, seems legit. To be fair though, cobaltstarfire's description of the study wasn't entirely accurate. And this study didn't use the type of extreme comments seen on Anita's video.
EDIT: The comments in the study were merely rude and did have some content, they were not disgusting and threatening, and void of content.
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Here's a different way to look at it, there was a recent study that found that the commentary on articles and whatnot actually affect the way people view the content of the article. So for example if you plopped a completely neutral/unknowing person down infront of one of her videos, and then they were to scroll down to a bunch of asshats and trolls (for whatever reason), that neutral person is going to be more likely to take a similar stance as the cesspit often found in youtube comments.
Do you have a link to this study? It sounds bogus to me.
That aside, just because this is the internet ect ect, doesn't mean it is acceptable to behave so horribly towards other human beings, nor does it mean that ANYONE should just lie down and take abuse just because 'it's going to happen anyway'. Threats and the like are NEVER OK, it doesn't matter if it is over the internet or in person. And to say someone needs to have a thicker skin over something or should just get used to it is completely sidestepping the point.Right below the end that quote from me, you'll notice I said my points do not excuse those types of comments. I was discussing the reasons behind trolls. I in no way implied nasty comments are acceptable.
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Maybe the nasty shit people say online has some actual bearing in the way they think? I know I for one have never felt the need to use violent, misogynistic, anti-semetic language. Even in jest.
For some people, sure, but who can say how many? It's difficult to verify. In the case of online games, the competitive nature can account for a lot. People say all sorts of things in anger.
As for say, YouTube comments, I think people many people enjoy eliciting some sort of response. I think it gives people satisfaction to know they have the power to manipulate others with their words.
Absolutely some people really do have violent, misogynistic, anti-semetic, and racist tendencies in their actual thoughts. However, I argue that those people are in the minority.
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That is a possibility. I just think it's a highly unlikely one.
There's tons of people out there on the internet who say crazy and offensive shit just to get a reaction. Ever played a shooter online? I used to play Halo 2 online back in the day, it was rare to go a game without a rape reference or racial slur. The whole point of that is to get a reaction, not with any sort of seriousness. It seems to me to be a not unlikely possibility.
Not buying it. The level of misogyny, threats of violence, rape, death threats, and even anti-semitism she received goes well beyond garden variety trolling. She struck a nerve with this project, unfortunately it was in a bunch of dudes with some real issues towards women.Ever played a game on Xbox Live, you hear that shit all the time. Anonymity allows anyone to get a reaction out of people without risk of repercussions. Anita Sarkeesian is talking about sexism against women, of course the trolls will make misogynistic threats.
Obviously this doesn't excuse those kinds of comments, but people will say very disgusting things just to get a rise. If you put yourself out there, you will face nasty comments, no matter who you are.
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I was using the general you. Anyway, what are some alternative reasons for disagreement? I think your evaluation sounds reasonable on the face of it, and in principle I agree that critics shouldn't be instantly branded. But in this case, we have a woman who is correct in diagnosing deeply entrenched sexism in videogames. Why so much hate? I can think of two reasons, which you mentioned. What else is there?
The criticisms raised by Charlemagne earlier seemed legit to me, and didn't sound sexist or fanboyish. As for other alternative reasons, I'll have to think about it for a bit.
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I'm being honest about ulterior motives. Otherwise, why would her getting (admittedly, very many) symbolic gestures of good will for a progressive cause arouse so much debate? Where's your outrage over how much actors, rappers, and athletes get paid?
And instead of dealing in the abstract, let's talk about your concrete disagreements. I'm willing to bet that any serious disagreement stems from sexism. It's not a mark of shame to be sexist, but it is shameful to remain so once you've been educated.
I never claimed to disagree with her, and in fact I don't. I'm simply questioning your claim that criticisms arise either from fanboyism or sexism.
It's pretty clear that a lot of the people criticizing her are doing it because they hate her, a woman who dared critique a medium riddled with problems. It's the only thing that explains the extraordinarily high level of vitriol thrown her way. It's not conclusive proof of misogyny, but it is strong evidence.What about the possibility that they are trolls looking to get a rise out of her? I don't think very many of those people hate her, but simply they enjoy pissing people off. Especially those who paint themselves or a particular group of people as victims.
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I find it hard to believe that someone who has been in this 'internet show' thing as long as she has would still have thin skin towards youtube comments. All the same, it closes her off from a major source of critique, which is crucial in these type of shows. If not, she's just another talking head that we're all supposed to say "Nice video!" to when she's done. What's the point? It's a waste of time.
While at the same time, for advertisement purposes, I can see how she'd want to present an atmosphere free of those comments. I don't know if she has some forum for herself where there's a calmer venue for talking about this stuff, but I doubt it. Thus, we are again just left to hear her, end of story. I just think it's in some ways, bad form.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel.
Here's my two cents: there's a reason so many people want to harp on the amount of money she received from her kickstarter or how poor the production value is - her argument is rock-solid and convicting, and fanboys and closeted sexists are grasping at straws (straw men, in fact) to criticize her.So anyone who has a criticism is automatically a sexist? Agree with her or you're sexist, is that what it has come to?
EDIT: I guess I missed the fanboy part, but still that's the vibe I get.
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ya
i should have said "i dont wanna go BACK and watch any of his videos". i watched a bunch of his rants on various different topics awhile back and could not get that fool off my youtube recommendations for the longest time
Well, I have a completely different impression of him. I find him to be against misogyny and xenophobia. As for classicism, I'm not sure if that was the word you were going for.
I don't have anything more to say at this point. Without specific examples, all I can say is I have a very different impression of TJ and his videos.
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i dont wanna watch any of his videos just to find examples of things to say but everything about his videos and his persona reeks of misogyny, xenophobia, classicism, all cloaked under the guise of intellectualism and SCIENCE
Have you watched any of his videos?
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also the amazing atheist is a big piece of shit idiot. hes the worst. people always link his videos when these kinds of topics come up and i dont know why. if we're trying to address issues of internalized and systemic misogyny why would you counter it with its most blatant, unabashed expression.
Why do you say he's a piece of shit? Why do you say he's the worst? I've seen nearly all of videos, I don't get that impression at all.
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It's part one in a series.
Guess I'll have to wait until part two.
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The content was interesting to me, but as a person already for their cause, I didn't learn much. I was hoping to come around to a new perspective or something.
That's my problem with this video, Anita didn't provide any ways to go about combating these issues. I agree with her points, but I'm not sure what do with the information. I want to decrease the use of damsel in distress, but how?
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Yeah, I thought about posting that Amazing Atheist video, but I didn't want to be the first one to do so. Anyway, I agree with his point about disabling comments. I agree one should be able to face criticism against one's ideas. Sure, they'll be some troll comments, it's part of the internet, but there are legitimate criticisms, as well as supporters. Disabling comments shows to me that she doesn't want a discourse of any kind.
As for that video response, I only watched the first 60 seconds before turning it off. The guy was complaining that she disabled comments. I saw a screencap of the comments for the video and they were universally disgusting.So you don't even bother to hear his reasoning before turning it off? Why? You should at least listen to his points before outright dismissing them.
And of course the screen cap showed only the disgusting comments, she deliberately selected them to get her point across. Besides, I guarantee you most of those were troll comments (obviously doesn't make it okay). She obviously wouldn't show legitimate criticism or supporters, only the worst of the worst.
Also, take a look at the comments sections of some of her other videos. I don't see many troll comments. I see support and discussion.
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Happy 21st Nonamer! I hope it's a good one!
In honor of your avatar, check out this Golden Sun cake! By the way, the image is too big to post, so hyperlink.
RWS 1-F ReMixing With the Stars: Season 1 Finale: "Touched by a Star"
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I'm cutting it close, but my entry will be submitted soon!