Fray

Default... the two most beautiful words in the english language When you talk about the panning of the harmonizing guitar parts, do you mean the new thing from Legion? Also, isn't the final solo already centered? I'll check on it tonight. Besides that I might try to make the kick drum a little more prominent -- I think it's gotten a little lost as I've filled out the other parts.

By scamming ignorant people using questionable sales tactics like listing the MSRP as the actual price, but pretending to "cut them a deal" just because you're in such a fucking nice mood today. That's how most local music stores do it

Shit yes, I do. I had half a mind to ask you for it, but I didn't know if you were going to come up with a mix to blow mine away, in which case it would have been moot

Gotcha. I guess the decisions I was thinking of were more in the beat-based direction, so that makes sense. Also, it's been a couple years since I've really watched WIPs or paid attention to judge's decisions, so it may be an issue the current panel is a little more flexible on.

If the judges recognize that you're using a drumloop, it's an instant NO, unless the rest of the arrangement is just mind-blowingly awesome. All the more so if it's from a commonly used package like Garage Band -- if you look at the Judge's Decisions forum there are sometimes pages of NO's for every YES. These guys have heard a lot of crappy remixes made with presets from FL Studio and Garage Band This is basically the same thing Zircon said, but just reading the submission guidelines you might get the idea that the judges are more lenient about this kind of stuff than they actually are. I don't know if GB is capable of any kind of loop slicing, but that's one way you can really make a loop your own. You still get all the processing and presets (for the most part), but you have the ability to change the beats up. Some loops actually come with slices already set up on each hit. At that point it's not much different from just using an out of the box drum sample, and nearly everybody does that.

So FLStudio gives you visual feedback as to how far you're pushing the pitch wheel? Anyway, check the settings in your synths (and FL as well), and see if there's some limit to pitch bend there.

Look, if it's really your dream, go for it. I was lucky enough that I had two things that I loved doing: programming and music. Programming pays better (even despite outsourcing!), so that became my career and music became a hobby. Basically unless you are extremely lucky (talent alone doesn't seem to do it), music in general sucks as a career. But if you're truly passionate about it, I think it can be worth it -- you'll just have to slog through the odd jobs, the bullshit networking (like Yoozer said getting game industry positions is about connections), and the competition.

Decide if you want a hardware synth or a soft synth. No one can make this choice for you -- soft synths give more bang for the buck and often have a better workflow with your DAW. Hardware keyboard synths don't take up CPU power and let you tweak using physical controls at the keyboard instead of having to horse around with a mouse interface. Unless you're trying to get true analog gear at the lowest possible price, I wouldn't bother with hardware rack synths. As far as the hardware synths go, they're pretty much all worth looking at. You generally get what you pay for -- none of them are ripoffs except for maybe some really high end stuff that just doesn't justify the $2000+ price tag. And those usually don't survive in the market for very long. In stupidly broad terms (and I do mean stupid -- I am generalizing like crazy here), most synths you're interested in fall into two categories: 1. Samplers/ROMplers (Korg Triton, Roland Phantom, Yamaha Motif, and many more), and 2. analogs/virtual analogs (Clavia Nord Lead, Korg Radias, Minimoog, and many more -- almost all of the synths The Vagrance mentioned fall into this category). As a general rule the latter are better if you want to create electronic sounds with a very high degree of customizability. But the higher end (say $800+) workstation ROMplers are usually very customizable too -- in fact you can do a lot of the same things you'd do with a virtual analog by starting with samples of basic synth waveforms (sine/square/sawtooth etc.), because the good ROMplers provide customizable LFO's, filters, and such. It's just not quite as streamlined and powerful -- but the upshot is that you can more easily get convincing "realistic" sounds like pianos, strings, drums, etc.. A cheap ROMpler (think Casio) will get you the "realistic" sounds for the most part, but not the customizability. I wouldn't bother with them -- soft synths are a much better choice if you're trying to save money. But you CAN get some pretty cool hardware virtual analog synths for around $500, like the Microkorg and the X-Station. There are also more specialized or quirky synths like the Roland V-Synth, Harmann Neuron (yeah right you're gonna buy one of those, they're like $4k+ ), or any number of boutique analog or analog/digital hybrids like Doepfer modulars, Studio Electronics ATC/ATX, or my favorite the Dave Smith Evolver. But they're probably not a good choice for your first synth as they're a lot more specialized. Eer year... just record MIDI of yourself playing and then you can switch the sounds out to your heart's content. That pretty much applies to any synth, hardware or software.

At this rate I'm never going to make it into the Einherjar... Link fixed On second thought, use this one, I think I managed to clean up a little more ear fatigue w/o obviously changing the sound. Edit 2: Crap, now the lead guitars are a little too quiet in the last two versions I'll fix that tonight... Edit 3: Ok I fixed the guitars to be a little louder, they fit better now: http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v18.mp3

Probably the final version from me, save for fixing any last minute items that are still bugging you: http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v16.mp3 - Did my best to restore the guitar tone at 3:07 to what it was in v5. I actually "un-tweaked" the guitar tone in a few other places because I thought maybe I'd changed it a bit too much from your original idea, which is not something I ever meant to do. - Louder guitar at 3:30, vocals at 1:00 and vocals at end - Made "You have been chosen by Odin" really big and loud Boosted the guitar phrase just beforehand too so it would fit in a little better. - More obvious chorus on Ragnarok and Einherjar - More flanger at 4:33 - Teensy bit of M-S compression on the master using Vintage Channel to spread the stereo image out a little (I kept it subtle because I'm really new at using that effect). - Turned down the reverb on the snare intro - Used that new boost11 peak limiter to raise the volume a bit... no real squashing except at the very loudest parts of the mix, and I think it adds a pleasing amount of grit to those segments.

Heh, all I did was turn the snare drum up for the first four hits. Maybe it sounds weird because I turned the reverb up along with the snare itself. For the solo sound at 3:07 do you mean v5 or v10 was better? I can't tell any difference between the tone in v10 and v12 But yeah v5 does have a lot more air to it. I'll turn up the rhythm guitar at 3:30, no prob. Yeah I did put in a flanger at 4:33 -- you mentioned you were trying to get an effect by turning the guitar down there, so I experimented with some stuff. I'll make it a little more obvious. I agree about the vocals being way too quiet in the final verse, I already fixed that I'll turn it up at 1:00 too. Will do more chorus on Ragnarok and Einherjar. I'll see what I can do about Chosen by Odin

Okay, new version up. New bass and kick. Much, much heavier this time, and louder (I went ahead and did a little bit of peak limiting, more than I really like actually ). Is there still too much reverb on the vocals? Is the volume automation ever distracting? Anything else? http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v12.mp3

Lol, the name alone makes me want one

Hehe, I didn't get Sonar 7 for that purpose alone, I was getting it one way or another You know I might be able to use the MIDI as is if I had it scale the tempo or something somehow. I'd give it a shot but sonar 7 came in the mail today ^.^

I'm still using the same kick drum actually, just EQ'd very differently and turned down. Hopefully I can switch a new one in that I can turn up more with less ear fatigue -- unfortunately I can't do that until Sonar 7 shows up in the mail I forgot to set the tempo before I started chopping up the tracks (vocals especially) so I could process different parts of them. 7 has a feature that lets you change the tempo without screwing all that up, and I should get it this week. Anyway I'll try to get more whump out of it once I have MIDI powers again! Yeah I did a lot of automation on the guitars, and for the most part you're not supposed to notice it -- I'll make the dip after "raining down from heaven" more subtle. Main reason for this was to combat ear fatigue and to give the climactic parts more energy. Another source of fatigue btw was the highs (7+ kHz) in the guitars, so I automated a treble cut and took those down when I could get away with it (hopefully you couldn't tell except for the fact that you didn't go as deaf listening to it). I might replace the bass guitar too. IMO the sample sounds kinda cheesy and really ruins the authentic death metal setting offered by the real guitars, live vocals, and (relatively) convincing drums. So I've been trying to hide it, and that may have caused of some of the lack of heaviness like you said. So! The next version will have a more powerful kick, better and louder bass, and an overall heavier sound I can see what you mean that it's gotten a bit wimpy. Glad you like the vocals and lead guitars.

I think so... but skim the manual for it and try it out first before you get really deep into a project or something. I've never actually used the feature before, I just know it's there from seeing the options, etc..

Got a new version for you to check out. I think I'm pretty much closing in on the final release here. For one thing I'd like to know if you're satisfied with the overall loudness of the mix -- I've tried to keep a good bit of dynamic range in it for now... From here I can compress, etc., to get the volume up, but the more of that I do the more the dynamics suffer. It's metal though, so I can understand if you want it louder! http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v10.mp3 Edit: I'm still going to make it louder than this no matter what, I'm just trying to get an idea of how much louder you need.

Chipp, did you deliberately pan the vocals around? I noticed the death grunts in particular seem to move to the right quite a bit during certain parts. I'm gonna center them unless it's something you were going for intentionally. Edit: on second thought I think it's something I goofed up. Nevermind

Lawl, that sound is so overused in anime

Oh, I think I get it. All you need to do is export the recorded guitar tracks as broadcast .wav's. Those have the time offset from the beginning of your project stored in them. So when you import them back on your desktop, they'll show up at the exact same start time. I think there are some global options that you have to twiddle in Sonar to get it to work right, specifically "Always Import Broadcast Waves at Their Timestamp", and for convenience, "Export Broadcast Waves by Default". In Sonar 5 they're in Options -> Global -> Audio Tab. I don't have 7 yet (it's in the mail though ^.-). I think that's the most elegant way to do what you're trying to do.

Ok I might try that out. Seems like I'm having to chop out too much of the top end to get rid of the effect (i.e. the kick sounds like a dull "whup", no snap at all). I also had some success with the long 16th note runs on the kick (those are the biggest problem I think) with automation -- I let them go at full force for a measure or so and then gradually pull the volume back. At that point your ear already knows the kick is there and what it's doing, so it doesn't need to be reminded at full force to hear what's going on. That's the idea at least

Thanks for the advice and compliment I will try that out -- so what you're getting at is to try to shorten the decay of the kick drum? I guess backing off the compression would effectively do that. Edit: I think you nailed it, sir. I was blaming the guitars and didn't think to check the kick drum. Muting it reduced the ear fatigue right away, so that's a good sign it's to blame. I actually wasn't compressing it in the conventional sense (although the tape sim does kinda put some compression in there), so I'm fiddling around with an expander w/really short attack and release times, plus just turning the track down. Seems to work well. Edit 2: I had even more success just using a shelving equalizer to lower the high frequencies of the kick. I also took a little big of the top end out of the guitars (allowing me to restore some of the mids I'd unnecessarily removed).

Hey thanks for checking the mix out so quickly. I definitely made the reverb very "audible" on a lot of the vocals, like the battle commands "bring the armor", etc.. If that's not something you like artistically I'll scale it back in the next version, that's cool. The death grunts really don't have much reverb on them -- one of the differences between headphones and speakers is that reverb levels seem higher on phones. I've been mixing on speakers, so I'll check it on phones and make sure it doesn't sound too excessive. I don't think it's something you typically do in metal. I'll give cursed bloodline a listen and see if I can match its tone color a bit better. I will try boosting the mids, but I think that can actually make it worse too. Maybe I need to bump down the highs on the guitars, I haven't really tried that yet.

New version up: http://www.winter-light.net/nbmont/Valkyriemix_Fray_v5.mp3 - I incorporated all the production requests from the OP -- Chipp, lemme know if I got these right. - Added some volume automation on the guitars so they could really sing out during the solo parts but not crowd or get old otherwise. - Did a bunch of processing on the vocals Problems: - There's something really ear-fatiguing about my mix that I can't seem to get rid of. I'd love suggestions if anyone has them, it's driving me nuts. - The bass is too boomy at times. - Probably need to revisit the guitar automation, I think it pops out too much sometimes.

Not quite the whole wave, just a portion of it (determined by the length of your release time). I think you understand though. Thanks for clarifying the attack time bit Zirc, I was thinking to myself the same thing -- that a limiter doesn't make much sense without a nearly instant attack.