Merk Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 April is support OCR month. After bringing OCR (minus OCRemoved) to work, I noticed the lack of consistency across ID3 tags. A lot don't have the year or name of original composers, and even the following ones don't even have the correct album name: http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01238/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01140/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01220/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01131/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01195/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01139/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01607/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01177/ Another part I noticed was the naming. Some have the name of the game, then the title ofthesongwrittenlikethis others have it spaced out, others put - or : between them. Even the way the game is written out isn't the same across all of the songs. It's all nice in the website, but if you look in the tags... Final Fantasy VII or 7 Sonic 3 or Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and more ways of writing the name of a game in the "The Legend of Zelda" series than I care to list I'd just like some consistency, some template that future remixes need to follow and it could be applied to the past ones. I realize that ~1700 tags is a lot of work, so I was hoping we could all work on this. A few extra bits I'd like, is the track number to be the number on OCR so track #209 would be The Music of My Groin. I'd also like to see a simple album art icon in with the torrents. If it is possible it would be really nice to have the album on cddb or any of those databases that various music software pulls from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I've wanted to do a project like this since the OCR01500 torrent. We'll probably do it at some point if I have any say in it. Which I don't. But yeah, I'd be willing to put the time into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSpirit Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Heh, well whaddya know... this is something similar to what I've been doing lately. I've been going through all my music (not just OCR's stuff) and retagging them to a specific standard. This is something I could help out with this summer, especially since I'm already partway through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiremanJoe Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Personally, I've already retagged some of the files. Lots of them have track number '0' or '1', which I removed, and I made the album title uniformly the site's URL. The other issues of game titles and stuff were a little too unwieldy for me to handle in an afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmuh Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 hey its merk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hey, it is me, only here to complain it seems... This thread keeps moving too... So I guess this is a good idea? The first step would be to figure out exactly what would go in these tags, hopefully have a mod or some such make future submissions follow the same template. {Game Name}{Song Title}OC Remix *{Game Name} = {whatever the name is under http://www.ocremix.org/remixes/} Album = http://www.ocremix.org Track # = {the five numbers of the song's url} Artist = {OCR Artist(s)} Composer = {original composer} Year = {Year of remix's release} Genre = Game Anyone, who actually has an album, know what's involved in getting it on one of those online databases media players look to for information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The suggestions here are appreciated, but we already know what information we currently want in ID3 tags, and all recent ReMixes are tagged that way. The site currently uses Helium to tag mixes. We know the old mixes are inconsistent. If you don't mind going through some of the recently posted mixes from the front page and checking THOSE tags for what you feel they're missing, that would give us better suggestions to go off of. For instance, I know we don't tag any of the mixes with iTunes album art. SgtRama also pointed out some issues with the FF7 album tagging when viewed in iTunes. Thanks to anyone who looks into this and offers suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSpirit Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Regarding the tagging, I've been wondering why you set the Album name as "http://www.ocremix.org". I know that it's good to put the website's URL in the tags, but I've been wondering why you don't put that in the Comments section and have the Album name as something like "OverClocked ReMix", or even the game name. It just strikes me as odd that you'd use the website URL as the album name. Any specific reasoning for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Regarding the tagging, I've been wondering why you set the Album name as "http://www.ocremix.org". I know that it's good to put the website's URL in the tags, but I've been wondering why you don't put that in the Comments section and have the Album name as something like "OverClocked ReMix", or even the game name. It just strikes me as odd that you'd use the website URL as the album name. Any specific reasoning for it? Because djp wanted people to go to the website, and putting the URL in the album field was the most effective way of doing that. Many music player programs don't display the Comments by default. If he'd done the aforementioned suggestion, the site wouldn't have gained traffic as quickly. It's been a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inimitable Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I've yet to find a way to get a program like iTunes or Winamp to display 4-character-long track numbers... And believe me, I've tried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 The suggestions here are appreciated, but we already know what information we currently want in ID3 tags, and all recent ReMixes are tagged that way..... Thanks to anyone who looks into this and offers suggestions. Please don't take this as hostility, but, do you want suggestions or not? Those two lines seem to contradict each other [The album is listed as http://www.ocremix.org] Because djp wanted people to go to the website, and putting the URL in the album field was the most effective way of doing that. Even though a search of "OverClocked ReMix" in any search engine yields http://www.ocremix.org as the first result? I've yet to find a way to get a program like iTunes or Winamp to display 4-character-long track numbers... And believe me, I've tried! Oh really? Windows Media Player (which I use at work) and Rhythmbox (at home) both can, I just thought that all modern players could at this point. EDIT: I tried iTunes on the Windows XP machine at work and it displayed a 4-character-long track number just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Unfortunately. ... Unfortunately I'm the only one bothered by the tags enough to do something about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmeli Walan Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 ...Unfortunately I'm the only one bothered by the tags enough to do something about it? Actually, you're not. I've had a little problem with the tags as well. I always thought that more emphasis should be placed on the song and not on the game being remixed. Something like "Artist - Song Title" without the OC ReMix at the end and game information in the Comment field. I think the problem here in having uniform id3 tags is that everyone has a different preference to them. If someone downloads a song from this site, they'll probably just reedit the tags themselves to whatever they prefer. I'm interested in hearing more about what you think, though. My summer's pretty free. If you or anyone else on OCR is going to spearhead a mass id3 tag renaming project, I'll gladly lend a hand (or ten fingers, rather. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 TO be entirely honest, if I downloaded a full OCR mirror again (my old one was lost in a dead hard drive) I could PROBABLY fix all inconsistencies in a little under a day. Maybe even a matter of hours. Picking out things that're blatantly wrong is easy, and mass editting everything is even easier. But like Larry said, you're all ignoring the BIGGEST issuere, imho. http://www.thasauce.net/modules.php?name=NewsTwo&file=article&sid=674 ^ AlbumArt tag TOTALLY fucks up media libraries. Even though a search of "OverClocked ReMix" in any search engine yields http://www.ocremix.org as the first result? I'm going to defend DJP in this, as I've done the same thing on ReMix:ThaSauce. In this day and age EVERYTHING has to be entirely intuitive and idiot proofed. You can't assume the average internet user who downloads an OCReMix off of LimeWire is going to think to open up Google or Yahoo! or something and search for it. You have to assume that the second they have to put actual effort forth on their part and do some sort of "Sherlock Holmes" investigating, that they're going to lose interest pretty fast and decide not to pursue it any further. Putting the URL right in the album's field ensure that it'll be clearly displayed in most, if not all, major media players by default (meaning it'll display SOMEWHERE when just playing the song, and not behind the scenes under some "More info" button, thusly hand feeding the listener the information. On R:TS I even go as far as to fill in the URL and "Buy this CD" links so that it makes it even more idiot proof. Oh, and AlbumArt, too. But apparently no one wants to help with that effort... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Please don't take this as hostility, but, do you want suggestions or not? Those two lines seem to contradict each other Apparently you missed: If you don't mind going through some of the recently posted mixes from the front page and checking THOSE tags for what you feel they're missing, that would give us better suggestions to go off of. I'm saying, we have a consistent tagging standard in place for what's newly posted. Look through the most recent stuff to check that out, then give criticisms/suggestions based on what you see from those tags, not tags from stuff before, say, OCR01650. Even though a search of "OverClocked ReMix" in any search engine yields http://www.ocremix.org as the first result? Obviously that works. But why would we want someone to reach the site in 2 steps (Google it, then go to the result) rather than 1 step (copy-pasta the URL directly)? I can guarantee that using the URL rather than the words "OverClocked ReMix" as the Album listing has been more effective in generating curiosity and directing traffic here. And we're not stupid, so we're gonna keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Apparently you missed:I'm saying, we have a consistent tagging standard in place for what's newly posted. Look through the most recent stuff to check that out, then give criticisms/suggestions based on what you see from those tags, not tags from stuff before, say, OCR01650. Obviously that works. But why would we want someone to reach the site in 2 steps (Google it, then go to the result) rather than 1 step (copy-pasta the URL directly)? I can guarantee that using the URL rather than the words "OverClocked ReMix" as the Album listing has been more effective in generating curiosity and directing traffic here. And we're not stupid, so we're gonna keep it that way. Well since there is no track number, how do I easily see what is post 1650? What is the tagging standard now so I can compare? The only changes I suggested where the album art (only as an additional file in the torrents), the track number, and the possibility of linking it to one of those online databases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Well since there is no track number, how do I easily see what is post 1650?What is the tagging standard now so I can compare? The only changes I suggested where the album art (only as an additional file in the torrents), the track number, and the possibility of linking it to one of those online databases. * 4.19 BUF Recommended buffer size * 4.17 CNT Play counter * 4.11 COM Comments * 4.21 CRA Audio encryption * 4.20 CRM Encrypted meta frame * 4.6 ETC Event timing codes * 4.13 EQU Equalization * 4.16 GEO General encapsulated object * 4.4 IPL Involved people list * 4.22 LNK Linked information * 4.5 MCI Music CD Identifier * 4.7 MLL MPEG location lookup table * 4.15 PIC Attached picture * 4.18 POP Popularimeter * 4.14 REV Reverb * 4.12 RVA Relative volume adjustment * 4.10 SLT Synchronized lyric/text * 4.8 STC Synced tempo codes * 4.2.1 TAL Album/Movie/Show title ALWAYS = http://www.ocremix.org * 4.2.1 TBP BPM (Beats Per Minute) * 4.2.1 TCM Composer ALWAYS = Exact Original Game Music Composer(s) E.G. = Yuzo Koshiro * 4.2.1 TCO Content type ALWAYS = Game * 4.2.1 TCR Copyright message ALWAYS = Exact Game Publisher E.G. = Enix * 4.2.1 TDA Date * 4.2.1 TDY Playlist delay * 4.2.1 TEN Encoded by * 4.2.1 TFT File type * 4.2.1 TIM Time * 4.2.1 TKE Initial key * 4.2.1 TLA Language(s) * 4.2.1 TLE Length * 4.2.1 TMT Media type * 4.2.1 TOA Original artist(s)/performer(s) ALWAYS = Exact System/Platform of Game ReMixed E.G. = SNES * 4.2.1 TOF Original filename * 4.2.1 TOL Original Lyricist(s)/text writer(s) * 4.2.1 TOR Original release year * 4.2.1 TOT Original album/Movie/Show title ALWAYS = Exact Name of Game E.G. = Actraiser * 4.2.1 TP1 Lead artist(s)/Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)/Performing group ALWAYS = Exact ReMixer Name E.G. = djpretzel * 4.2.1 TP2 Band/Orchestra/Accompaniment * 4.2.1 TP3 Conductor/Performer refinement * 4.2.1 TP4 Interpreted, remixed, or otherwise modified by * 4.2.1 TPA Part of a set ALWAYS = Exact ReMixID assigned by djpretzel at time of posting E.G. = OCR00541 * 4.2.1 TPB Publisher * 4.2.1 TRC ISRC (International Standard Recording Code) * 4.2.1 TRD Recording dates * 4.2.1 TRK Track number/Position in set * 4.2.1 TSI Size * 4.2.1 TSS Software/hardware and settings used for encoding * 4.2.1 TT1 Content group description * 4.2.1 TT2 Title/Songname/Content description ALWAYS = Exact name of Game [space] Exact name of ReMix [space] OC ReMix E.G. Actraiser Fillmore Funk OC ReMix * 4.2.1 TT3 Subtitle/Description refinement * 4.2.1 TXT Lyricist/text writer * 4.2.2 TXX User defined text information frame * 4.2.1 TYE Year ALWAYS = Exact Year ReMix Posted on OCR E.G. = 2002 * 4.1 UFI Unique file identifier * 4.9 ULT Unsychronized lyric/text transcription * 4.3.1 WAF Official audio file webpage * 4.3.1 WAR Official artist/performer webpage * 4.3.1 WAS Official audio source webpage * 4.3.1 WCM Commercial information * 4.3.1 WCP Copyright/Legal information * 4.3.1 WPB Publishers official webpage * 4.3.2 WXX User defined URL link frame Retrieved from " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 lot of 4.x stuff... Retrieved from " Not all of that information is in OCR01650+ is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 http://www.ocremix.org/info/Detailed_ID3v2_Tag_Specification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 http://www.ocremix.org/info/Detailed_ID3v2_Tag_Specification So then, no, since only a handful of them are mandatory. 4.2.1 TPA Part of a set ALWAYS = Exact ReMixID assigned by djpretzel at time of posting E.G. = OCR00541 That confuses me though, what IS that? It's mandatory yet I dont' know if I've seen it. And if that's mandatory, why can't 4.2.1 TRK Track number/Position in set be that way and just be 00541 (in the example given) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 So then, no, since only a handful of them are mandatory. 4.2.1 TPA Part of a set ALWAYS = Exact ReMixID assigned by djpretzel at time of posting E.G. = OCR00541 That confuses me though, what IS that? It's mandatory yet I dont' know if I've seen it. And if that's mandatory, why can't 4.2.1 TRK Track number/Position in set be that way and just be 00541 (in the example given) You don't SEE it because you're not using a good enough ID3 tagging program, but it's there. I do a similiar thing with the RTS mixes using the catalog number instead of the track number. Why? Because most people CAN'T find it, and thus can't change it. Back in the day Prot made a program called OCRecollections that would crawl the site and check your OCReMix library up against an XML file that's generated by the server and download the songs you didn't have. Problem was if you changed any of the days or the file name it didn't really have a way to find it. With this, hidden, tag in the files there's a way for the song to be identified even if someone has changed all the visible tags and renamed it, so it'll still show up in soemthing like this AND won't be anything noticeable. Why would you particularly want all the OCReMixes sorted by track number? I really don't care what order they were posted on the site short of something for the backend. I'm just lookin' for game, artist, and song titles. The only REAL changes I could see making are making putting write-ups into the comments tags, lyrics into the lyrics tags, album art, and album artists. Anyway, you'd probably have to download Helium to see a lot of these tags. I've never used it, but I've seen it and the tagging on that thing is pretty extensive. What I would do, because I have it, is just load everything into Tag&Rename to check for overall consistency, which I'm pretty sure for the most part is OK, and then crawl the files individually through Helium to make sure ALL the required fields are filled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 You don't SEE it because you're not using a good enough ID3 tagging program, but it's there. I do a similiar thing with the RTS mixes using the catalog number instead of the track number.Why? Because most people CAN'T find it, and thus can't change it. Back in the day Prot made a program called OCRecollections that would crawl the site and check your OCReMix library up against an XML file that's generated by the server and download the songs you didn't have. Problem was if you changed any of the days or the file name it didn't really have a way to find it. With this, hidden, tag in the files there's a way for the song to be identified even if someone has changed all the visible tags and renamed it, so it'll still show up in soemthing like this AND won't be anything noticeable. Why would you particularly want all the OCReMixes sorted by track number? I really don't care what order they were posted on the site short of something for the backend. I'm just lookin' for game, artist, and song titles. The only REAL changes I could see making are making putting write-ups into the comments tags, lyrics into the lyrics tags, album art, and album artists. Anyway, you'd probably have to download Helium to see a lot of these tags. I've never used it, but I've seen it and the tagging on that thing is pretty extensive. What I would do, because I have it, is just load everything into Tag&Rename to check for overall consistency, which I'm pretty sure for the most part is OK, and then crawl the files individually through Helium to make sure ALL the required fields are filled in. So you don't want track #, when something like year is up, but insist on something that no one ever sees? You and I can go back and forth all we want, ultimately it's not our decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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