diy & experimental electronic music

[analoq]

AS LONG AS THE SOURCE IS IDENTIFIABLE AND DOMINANT

Therein lies the issue. Concrete, microtonal, algorithmic composition, circuit-bending and other electronic techniques don't particularly lend themselves to the pop melodies and rhythms of the video game genre. Recognizability is necessary for OCR but that limitation is not conducive to experimental music when the whole point is not to have limits.

Not that there's any shame in that. Reworking music from a niche genre into far removed styles is plenty esoteric by itself.

[The Pezman]

DrumUltimA made an all-percussion mix that passed

When was this? I'd love to hear it. However, the only percussion-only track that comes to mind off the top of my head is the Chrono Trigger World Map music in 65 million BC.

Do you think you could make an experimental (whatever that means to you, I suppose) track to submit here? Maybe then we'd have a better idea of how you see it working.

[zircon]

That's exactly what he remixed - you'll hear it when it gets posted.

I'm still pretty sure experimental stuff could easily get posted here. Look at BT's latest album. VERY experimental - nothing is in 4/4 across the whole thing and just about everything is insanely chopped, warped, and bent to hell. Massive 15 minute soundscapes. But there are still melodies of sorts.

[The Vagrance]

Really if one wants to do an experimental remix all they have to do is start off with an experimental source (which means Final Fantasy games are probably out of the question)

[anosou]

Therein lies the issue. Concrete, microtonal, algorithmic composition, circuit-bending and other electronic techniques don't particularly lend themselves to the pop melodies and rhythms of the video game genre. Recognizability is necessary for OCR but that limitation is not conducive to experimental music when the whole point is not to have limits.

Not that there's any shame in that. Reworking music from a niche genre into far removed styles is plenty esoteric by itself.

While I most certainly does not think BT is experimental, zircon has a valid point. It's possible to work in motifs from sources and like Vagrance said, you could probably do well in look around for sources suitable to your intended "style".

I bet it's harder than making you know trance or metal but it's absolutely possible and I, for one, is trying to create a remix in a very experimental style.. We'll see when time allows!

Noise or really twisted breakcore would probably work well if you borrow distinct rhythmic patterns from a source and maybe simple bassline chord structure in a song without melody. More algorithmic compositions a la Stockhausen and Cage are probably not possible because the whole point of these is to free them from human thinking. Thus using such a style for an arrangement is not only hard but quite stupid Circuitbending, microtonal and in some cases algorithmic (depending on what algorithms you are actually using and for what) is still possible. The limit is ofc that it's hard to make an all out circuit bent track with JUST noise. The key issue is finding the balance.

Ah well, hope we've sparked some interest for these kinda things anyway.

[The Pezman]

Really if one wants to do an experimental remix all they have to do is start off with an experimental source

Hmmm... what games would you suggest for that? REZ comes to mind... sort of.

[analoq]

I bet it's harder than making you know trance or metal but it's absolutely possible

I never said it was impossible just not particularly conducive. I think our disagreement is more fundamental than the angle you are coming at:

I, for one, is trying to create a remix in a very experimental style..

And I'll respect that as long as you respect your artistic vision. The moment you compromise for the sake of recognizability or any scrutiny on what you perceive a remix should be, then you are no longer making an experimental remix -- you are making a normal remix with some experimental techniques thrown in. And I don't call that avant-garde, I call that a gimmick.

So, best of luck to you on treading that fine line.

[anosou]

I never said it was impossible just not particularly conducive. I think our disagreement is more fundamental than the angle you are coming at:

And I'll respect that as long as you respect your artistic vision. The moment you compromise for the sake of recognizability or any scrutiny on what you perceive a remix should be, then you are no longer making an experimental remix -- you are making a normal remix with some experimental techniques thrown in. And I don't call that avant-garde, I call that a gimmick.

So, best of luck to you on treading that fine line.

Now I feel the pressure

We'll see how it turns out

[The Pezman]

I'm taking Artificial Life right now, and my teacher mentioned a number of applications to music and art. I looked through the Artificial Life Open Dictionary and found a couple things of interest. If I do something like this for my senior project, it might be possible for me to "evolve" an OCRemix out of the source.

[The Vagrance]

Hmmm... what games would you suggest for that? REZ comes to mind... sort of.

Not really though, just because Rez mainly just had a bunch of Techno tracks by relatively recognizable artists, with the exception of the final track which is by a pretty damn big name in electronic music (Adam Freeland).

[analoq]

I'm sorry, but I must post this:

To make up for that, here's an old favorite:

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2005/05/tiny-music-makers-pt-3-thx-sound.html

The story behind the THX sound. So hardcore it puts nearly everything else to shame...

[anosou]

That made me laugh

Treewave ( www.treewave.com ) does some amazing things with a printer if you wanna listen btw.

[The Pezman]

Can anyone speak to the utility of the musicpole or Axis-64? They look pretty damn awesome, but there's no way I'd drop for either of them without trying them out first.

[analoq]

I'm rather intrigued by the Axis64. A while back, I programmed the Axis layout for my Monome (tilting it diagonally) to get an idea of how it plays. The chords and scales do make sense but it's certainly a different animal -- no amount of keyboard experience will help you with that thing.

They're coming out with an Axis49 soon. If it approaches affordability I'm going to have to consider it.

[The Pezman]

Hot professor at some college has a ten-part(!) video series on her modifying the Axis to fit a different kind of scale.

I guess I would like to see some statements about whether that particular layout is the best way to arrange the notes. Or something. I don't know nearly enough theory to make a judgment, but I don't like that C-Thru music has just thrown up a website with this totally strange animal and expects someone to buy it.

Also, check this

.

[Zephyr]

I hope the Harpejji gets popular, it looks cool and I want one. Bass player and guitar in one, with variable envelopes and note detection even. You could even wire that to transmit midi if you knew what you were doing.

[analoq]

Hot professor at some college has a ten-part(!) video series on her modifying the Axis to fit a different kind of scale.

I couldn't help but watch all (12) of these. Very interesting and she is rather captivating...

I don't know nearly enough theory to make a judgment, but I don't like that C-Thru music has just thrown up a website with this totally strange animal and expects someone to buy it.

I'm a proponent of the idea. There are physical limitations in what sort of keyboard layout you could use for a piano, harpsichord, organ due to the mechanical/acoustic nature of the instruments. With electronics, you don't have those limitations so I'm glad C-Thru is among the companies out there trying something different. I wish there was more competition among alternative controllers, bring those prices down.

I guess I would like to see some statements about whether that particular layout is the best way to arrange the notes. Or something.

In the Jordan Rudess Axis videos he says there are some things you can do with that layout you can't do on a regular keyboard -- and vice versa. I don't think there's a good answer to your question; does a guitar use a better note layout than a piccolo?

[The Pezman]

I'm a proponent of the idea. There are physical limitations in what sort of keyboard layout you could use for a piano, harpsichord, organ due to the mechanical/acoustic nature of the instruments. With electronics, you don't have those limitations so I'm glad C-Thru is among the companies out there trying something different. I wish there was more competition among alternative controllers, bring those prices down.

I think you misunderstood. I'm very happy to see this product, and I'm excited by the idea of pushing boundaries in general. Like I mentioned, I'm wrestling with the ideas of what I can do with it. However, with this controller trying to forge such new ground, I feel the burden of proof ought to be on them in order to allow us to see for ourselves what we can do with it. In other words, let us try before we buy.

In the Jordan Rudess Axis videos he says there are some things you can do with that layout you can't do on a regular keyboard -- and vice versa. I don't think there's a good answer to your question; does a guitar use a better note layout than a piccolo?

Fair enough, but what I guess I'm saying here is that I'd like to understand what drove the designers to arrange the notes the way they did. For example, a regular 1-3-5 chord can be played with a finger, but a scale is less intuitive. From a theory perspective, what drove them to put the notes where they did? And as you said, unlike a guitar or piccolo, there were no physical limitations about what went where, so they were free to arrange the notes in what I imagine was the way that (theoretically) would allow for optimum music composition and performance.

[analoq]

The inventory of the layout, Peter Davies, sells his own version of the controller: http://www.theshapeofmusic.com/

According to the site he's been researching this stuff since the early 80s. You could try emailing him and asking if he's written any research papers relevant to his layout.

Though, if you play a bit of piano and guitar I don't think anything needs to be explained. It has the action of a keyboard instrument but with chord shapes and scales like a guitar but using more logical patterns. Any musician can see the layout is clever, at least.

Whether it's optimal for composition/performance/etc, again, who can say?

[The Pezman]

Though, if you play a bit of piano and guitar I don't think anything needs to be explained. It has the action of a keyboard instrument but with chord shapes and scales like a guitar but using more logical patterns. Any musician can see the layout is clever, at least.

I don't know the first thing about guitar. Could you explain a little more about that part please?

[zircon]

I've always been kind of interested in a more intuitive mapping for typing keyboard to MIDI. Seems like most arrangements assign white notes to ZXCVBN and QWERTY with black notes on ASDFGH and 123456. I think this could be done better... though I don't know how, offhand. For people like me, that type ridiculously fast, I could imagine some cool musical applications.

[analoq]

I don't know the first thing about guitar. Could you explain a little more about that part please?

The similarity is in the sense that on guitar, there are certain chord shapes and scale patterns along the frets that can be moved horizontally and to some extend vertically along the fretboard for transposition. The Axis does the same, but more fluently.

I've always been kind of interested in a more intuitive mapping for typing keyboard to MIDI. Seems like most arrangements assign white notes to ZXCVBN and QWERTY with black notes on ASDFGH and 123456. I think this could be done better... though I don't know how, offhand. For people like me, that type ridiculously fast, I could imagine some cool musical applications.

If you come up with some ideas, do share them. I've written some software previously along these lines:

I got an octave and a half and assign the bottom manual to an arpeggiator and I'm able to perform a simple piano piece. Geeky fun, but not exactly a revolution.

[analoq]

Came across this self-playing modular patch just now,

Lovely, and brilliant too.

[Yoozer]

why do these people have a zillion bucks for a great modular

and days of time to figure this kind of shit out

but always, always, always fail to record their work with a decent harddiskrecorder/audio-interface/anything that's not a camera mic

ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu

[analoq]

Back to the Axis64...

I'm rather intrigued by the Axis64. A while back, I programmed the Axis layout for my Monome (tilting it diagonally) to get an idea of how it plays.

I made a video demonstrating this:

Also, the aforementioned layout inventor Peter Davies is on YouTube, can't help but post this video of his:

cheers.