[DnB]Kirby Superstar - "Dark Energy"

[BlackPanther]

So yeah got another WIP and this is of the Marx battle song from Kirby Superstar. I've been wantin to do this one for a while and since my comp is too slow to mess with my Goldeneye remix, I'm workin on this one. I think it's off to a pretty good start this is all I have at the moment though there will be more to this when I get time but enough rambling I'll let you guys listen. Feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks.

ReMix

[SnappleMan]

Bad news, you ruined the source. You took all those beautiful odd rhythms and turned them into a boring ass generic beat. Not to mention you failed at successfully reproducing the original notes, melodies and harmonies.

If you're gonna go in this direction, you should learn the song on a musical level first, so you can arrange it well. Right now all the things you've done to it make it sound bad. There is a ton of room for arrangement here, but I think this source is way out of your league.

[BlackPanther]

Lol thanks, guess I'll try to defend myself. Well, I feel like crap now that someone thinks I ruined the source, funny your eyes aren't opened until someone else says somethin about the mix. Even with the first response by a well known remixer, I still don't believe I totally ruined the source. Yes I took the song out of it's ever changing time signature and stuck it in a 4/4 one, but I saw this as the only way. Also, I relied mainly on a midi score because yes, my ears definitely aren't that tuned to hear such complex melodies. I can hear that some things are off and I was hopin to come to the WIP thread to get an idea on what I could do instead of gettin chewed out like I committed murder.

Despite that, thank you though for listening and giving your completely honest feedback. I'm not gonna stop on the song though unless everyone totally believes that this is a lost cause right now. I am gonna work a lot harder at it though seein as how you were completely disgusted with this lol.

[Psychol0gist]

Hmmm.

It has a unique beat into it even though it's just the start.

Problem I see to it is how can you liberalize the sound to your uniqueness without losing the source's soul?

That and probly the beginning section just before it gets into the bass beat. Sounds like a little lag put into it. Could fix it to be faster or something.

[SnappleMan]

Lol thanks, guess I'll try to defend myself. Well, I feel like crap now that someone thinks I ruined the source, funny your eyes aren't opened until someone else says somethin about the mix. Even with the first response by a well known remixer, I still don't believe I totally ruined the source. Yes I took the song out of it's ever changing time signature and stuck it in a 4/4 one, but I saw this as the only way. Also, I relied mainly on a midi score because yes, my ears definitely aren't that tuned to hear such complex melodies. I can hear that some things are off and I was hopin to come to the WIP thread to get an idea on what I could do instead of gettin chewed out like I committed murder.

Despite that, thank you though for listening and giving your completely honest feedback. I'm not gonna stop on the song though unless everyone totally believes that this is a lost cause right now. I am gonna work a lot harder at it though seein as how you were completely disgusted with this lol.

There's the problem. The fact that you think sticking to a 4/4 time signature is the only way. You don't have to stick to the original tempo, which is insanely fast. The better way would be to do a little bit of math with the time signatures. You can still play the song the same way it is now but over a halftime drumbeat that accentuates the odd time, and it'll sound great. Experiment with the rhythm, it'll really get this song going.

[Eino Keskitalo]

I like the mood you set with the intro! Your whole sound gives a different feel to the original, so that's good.

I agree with SnappleMan, don't think that a straight ahead beat is the only way here.. you'll learn a lot of new things. I think doing half-time beat and implying the odd rhythms with accents is a great idea and probably fun to try out too! At least the first part can be counted as an uneven number of fast 4/4 bars I think.

I don't think 4/4 is necessarily that problematic (although the rhythm is a key component of the source), but right now regardless of what source you're using the rhythm and beat feel very even. I mean it's a breakbeat beat! Going wild with the rhythm should be part of the package.

For the harmonies, I'm not doing a side-by-side comparison, but the transition to the second part (after 00:30) feels uncomfortable and the b-part has some wonky-sounding notes. (warning: rambling ahead) Having to rely on midis sucks because you're at midi maker's mercy when it comes to mistakes. Yet it's no use blaming them (not saying you are), as the end result is the mixer's responsibility in any case. It's definitely a challenging source..

--Eino

[Gario]

I'm afraid that I've got to agree with Snappleman, in this case - the mix screws with a very characteristic part of the source in the wrong way. I have nothing against screwing with a source in an unconventional way (hell, I've been accused of it before), but if you chose to do so, do it for a significant musical reason, not due to an inability to work with it.

If your going to do a remix, please never use a midi score - transcribing the music takes more time, but it also gets you involved into the music in a way that using a midi score couldn't ever do. You'll be able to catch what you like (or don't like) about music easier (as you'll actually be rewriting it), thus giving you more opportunities for discovering remixing potential. If you can't transcribe it then that also is a good indicator that it may be a song that's too much for you to handle at this time - if that's the case I'd recommend putting it on hold for a while and coming back to it later.

By the way, the beginning of the song is quite cool - the unresolving strings, the sound effects, etc. set the mood very, very well. After that, though, you take it somewhere that it should've gone (I have nothing against DnB, but standardizing the music to fit a 4/4 pattern doesn't work). Good luck!

[PrototypeRaptor]

IMO, this would work better as DnB if you put it into more of an Aphex twin style than a Noisia style.

Think like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtBa5SS33JI&feature=related

(skip to 2:35 for the beat)

rather than this:

notice how aphex twin's drums are so much more intricate? polymeter, polyrhythms, glitching - that's what you need.

As the others before me have noted; it's just too complicated (and good) of a source to turn it into 4/4 all over. It deserves better.

tl;dr

Have more fun while writing the drum track

[BlackPanther]

Except Aphex Twins isn't really DnB at all, they're more IDM which is what I'm not goin for. One things for sure, the finished song won't be in 4/4 the whole time there will be some switchups to the time signature so it'll flow more like the original. I can admit when I'm at fault but to be honest I don't think I did that bad of a job of course everyone else is disgusted with it, it's whatever I suppose lol. And gario don't completely discredit me. I only used the midi for the underlying string parts which I couldn't figure out for the life of me the lead and the bass I figured out on my own, the only people who would get this 100% correct would be Dan and Jun themselves.

But yeah thanks everyone for at least giving this a listen although the feedback isn't what I was expecting, I definitely have fingers pointed in the right direction now and I definitely appreciate it.

[Gario]

And gario don't completely discredit me. I only used the midi for the underlying string parts which I couldn't figure out for the life of me the lead and the bass I figured out on my own, the only people who would get this 100% correct would be Dan and Jun themselves.

With training and/or practice, anyone can transcribe any music. I can assure you that I could transcribe it accurately do to the training I've had, for example, and I'm positive many (if not most) of the posted remixers could transcribe it, too. I'm not discrediting you, though, dude - I understand that those are very difficult parts to transcribe and a midi score can help for the sake of accuracy. However, if you can't transcribe it then you probably will not understand what is happening to the music very well, either, which is a very important thing to be aware of when remixing (either in a conscious or unconscious level). Besides, if your not accurate than you may be hearing something different that you really like (e.g. you use the 'wrong' chord when transcribing because you like that sound better) - extra remix potential, for sure. If you rely on midi scores too heavily you'll be missing out on a lot of benefits that come with transcribing.

Music is not something that can be 'seen' and manipulated - you really need to hear the relationships and feel what should be where (knowing 'why' helps, but isn't necessary). Transcribing allows you to really hear and feel the music - midi scores do not. If you need the midi score for something in a song you probably need some time away from that particular source - you will not write with the full potential of the song in mind (and we will claim that you 'ruined the source' because of it). Don't take this personal - everyone needs work on their craft. I'm just telling you of a good guage of where your at and why. I don't want you to produce something sub-par because of personal limitations, I want to see you get better and overcome those limitations and kick the crap out of this source (in a good way), as it's one of my all-time favorite Kirby songs!

Rawr!

[Eino Keskitalo]

Gario said what I'd have wanted to say about using midis.

If you like it the way you are doing (i.e. 4/4 - which I support doing if it's your vision), just say so, don't say stuff like "it's the only way" and "only the authors could get it right", it sounds unnecessarily defensive. A defensive mindset keeps you from getting the best out of feedback. I know, I've done that myself, still do, and trying to accept feedback without having my claws come out is often quite painful. It doesn't mean you have to lose yourself either - feedback can help you realize why you are doing the things you are doing, why you like them etc. You can say "ok, I want to make this work in 4/4 'cause I think it would sound great, there's some potential there." Or you may come to the conclusion that you'll need to explore the different meters more thoroughly. Whichever's the honest approach, following it will lead to the best personal musical development. I'm starting to sound kinda new-agey so I'll stop here.

--Eino

[z130]

hmmm... what a bunch of angry people.

I think it sounds pretty good. The 4/4's fine, but I think it's the percussion that makes this one bland. The snare you picked is very overbearing and a little painful to listen to, and you can keep the thing in 4/4 s long as you mix up the percussion a lot more.

As it is, I like the whole idea of a darker Kirby song.

[BlackPanther]

Ok well I want to do it in 4/4 time lol. What I meant by my other comment is that 4/4 is the only way to do it in the style that I want. I've done a bunch of experimentation after what all you guys said and I wasn't a fan of any of the results; it's just not as energetic as I want it to be with a combination of the different time signatures. So as it stands, that's gonna be saved for a mid section or an end part maybe but not the bulk that's gonna be 4/4.

Sorry to all of you who didn't like what I did but it's gonna stay that way for the most part, but I love the source just as much as any of the rest of you do, I'll go as far as to say I love it more than you guys do, and I don't feel like I'm ruining the song. So I would love it if you guys were to help me with what I have instead of blasting at what I did to "ruin" the source.

/end blabbering