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Night10194

Silent Hill Discussion

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Dont forget the unlimited sub-machine gun.

Makes the perfume almost worthwhile...

beamsaber and heather bean are fun too ...

got the god of thunder costume? i like heather look with it

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I do indeed have the GodOfThunder outfit.

I had a list of outside references in Silent Hill 3...these are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

1) Yura-Sama (The drummer from Psycho Le Cemu) is on one of the posters in the book store.

2) The haunted house is named "Borley Haunted Mansion". Borley rectory is supposedly the most haunted house in the world (in fact, there's a picture of Borley rectory on the signpost for the haunted house. It can be seen here

3) The picture in the confessions booth is the picture that Julian Lennon drew which served as the inspiration for the song "Lucy in the sky with diamonds"

4) We've covered the bit about the fairy being from Zelda

5) On one of Heather's jackets it says "something wicked this way comes" which is the title of a book by, I believe, Dean Koontz (who has a street named after him in SH1)

And thats it for now.

Also, what in the HELL is that weird thing that you see throughout the game...the one turning the valves and hanging nurses and so on...

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Roight...and where does throttling nurses come into it?

I dunno..... Good question i have no answer to that..

Are the girl really nurse? they wear long red robes for me (in the intro)

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it's supposed to be valiel if i remenber well.... turning the valve of destiny...

Actually it's supposed to represent the change between the regular Silent Hill, and the "Nightmare Silent Hill". That's what they said in the interviews in that documentary atleast...

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You mean it's like a gatekeeper?

(well you can see that guy when you shift the reality)

Well, yeah kinad like that I guess. I don't know if they made that connection a little too far fetched though... You probably won't think about it, unless you're told about it. Atleast I didn't :P

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Roight...and where does throttling nurses come into it?

I dunno..... Good question i have no answer to that..

Are the girl really nurse? they wear long red robes for me (in the intro)

Yeah...there're parts of the game when you can see him strangling nurses

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In the chapel.

At one point if you look left, through the mesh wire you can see him holding a nurse by the neck and picking her up before throwing her back down.

Also, if you look at certain points, you can see him with nurses covered with a big red curtain (I'm assuming theyre nurses owing to the groans they make)

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Silent Hill 3 Spoilers

Ah. The mystery of Vatiel. Some people believe that he is the gatekeeper to the Alternate dimension (or worlds) of Silent Hill. Others believe that he is the true follower of the Holy Mother. Still, there are those who believe that he is the watcher and protector of God Herself.

In order to understand this strange creature better, let's look at where we meet Vatiel and the things he is doing when we see him.

1) We first see Vatiel in the elevator in the Alternate Square Center Shopping Mall. There are multiple shots of Vatiel during the sequence in which we see Heather gasp. You must keep a sharp eye to see each shot. The first is of Vatiel standing in front of (under?) another strange creature identified as a Spider. We also see him shaking his head and walking(?) in a corridor. This is a suggestion that there are more than one Vatiel.

2) Later, we see Vatiel in the Alternate Hilltop Offices, after you have solved the painting puzzle. You must use the camera to adjust your view. He seems to just stand there and watch you.

3) The next time we meet Vatiel is in the Alternate Brookhaven hospital, after going through the "door at the end of the second floor." He is turning the value. A dead nurse hangs above him.

3a) From camera hacks, we've learned that Vatiel is also behind the smokey glass on the second (or was it third?) floor of the Alternate Brookhaven hospital. You have to look very carefully. Again, Vatiel is playing (if you want to call it that) with a nurse. (The painting behind them is "The Light Illuminating the Darkness." wink,wink.)

3b) The creature trapped in the locker, has a strong resemblence to Vatiel. Whether it is him or not is up to you to decide. (Personally, I think it is Vatiel.)

4) We meet Vatiel again in the Alternate Chapel/Nowhere. The most prominant spot is where Vatiel is turning the value with the two curtains (dresses?) and legs are beside him. Someone said that this was a metaphor from the first game of Alessa and Cheryl being brought together under Samael. Very interesting to think about.

4a) We see Vatiel crawling along the floor in some small tunnels in two hallways of the Alternate Chapel/Nowhere. This is also a possible metaphor for the subservience of Vatiel to the religion or Heather.

4b) The next instance where we see Vatiel is in the hallway to Alessa's room. Vatiel is dangling a (dead?) nurse in a metal-grating tunnel. It's hard to say why he is doing it or for what purpose, since we cannot determine his actions outright. However, from the way his actions are performed, either Vatiel is playing with the nurse for sick enjoyment, or he is trying to kill it out of protection (for himself or Heather, I don't know). Still, this brings up a good theory, which I'll explain below.

4c) The last place we see Vatiel is just before the battle with "God?" Vatiel is crawling towards God? to cover it's face with the blanket/curtain. This protects God? from getting hit by Heather's bullets. This action suggests that Vatiel is in fact protecting the being within Heather and not Heather herself. This too is important.

5) Haha! You didn't think there were anymore instances where we see Vatiel, but there is one more. Whenever Heather is killed by a monster in the Alternate world, Vatiel will appear to drag Heather away. Heather will also be covered in the strange red blobs we see in the Alternate worlds. However, the one important fact that gets overlooked is that when you die in the Alternate world, the world changes back to the normal world (at least, everytime I've gotten this secret cutscene).

Vatiel seems to be a link to Heather and the Alternate world. Though, you may have already discerned that from knowing about Heather's "true self," Vatiel also plays a role in changing to the Alternate dimension. If all that was needed to change the world to the alternate was Heather, she would have probably stumbled upon it herself. Claudia seems to be able to control this ability in Heather, or at least it isn't directly caused by Heather herself. I believe that Vatiel is needed to make the change occur, alluding to the theory that Vatiel is a gatekeeper.

However, Vatiel seems to play a greater role than that in the story. Since Vatiel seems to be stalking Heather throughout the Alternate dimension, it seems that Vatiel also acts as a watcher to Heather. My instincts tell me that this is how the cult was able to see and know everything from the first game. I think Vatiel was there too.

I don't know if Vatiel is really a person or just a monster, but he seems to have a connection to the cult. I'm more inclined to think Vatiel is just a monster under the control of the cult (think about the trapped monster in Alternate Brookhaven), because his purposes don't really seem to have a direct affect on Heather. And as we all know, the monsters in Silent Hill try to have as direct an effect on you as possible. However, we also know that Vatiel's purpose is to protect the being inside Heather and not Heather herself, so Vatiel won't make any direct contact with Heather.

The only reason why Vatiel would protect god that I can think of is by order. The only people introduced who might have the power to order monsters is the Hope House Cult (the cult of Silent Hill). The evidence is from the Daisy Apartment complex, where Claudia orders a monster to kill Harry.

I don't think Vatiel is under the control of Claudia alone, because Vatiel doesn't appear at the beginning of the Alternate Hilltop Offices, just as Claudia doesn't appear there. Only Vincent appears there. Hmmm.

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thank for that ifirit.

btw, i know about valtiel during the game over screen. surprising to see this cut scene.

i need to replay and watch careful all that stuff. you need a sharp eyes to see everything hanging on the wall and corridor of SH.

off topic but the hospital corridor, with blood rain moving texture was totally awesome, like the tunnel in the metro, slowly covering with blood when you go downstair. :)

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A list of the alternative death scenes that I have found in Silent Hill 3 (OMGSPOILERS)...

1) If you die in certain places, Valitel will turn up and drag you off (as has been said)

2) If you die in certain places, a closer will turn up and drag you off (The walkway in the alternative lakeside...thats the only place I've seen this one)

3) If you leave the subway train you get to see a lovely 1st person view of going under the wheels

4) If you dont electrocute the tentacle demon, he'll drag you under and kill you.

5) If you stay on the train tracks too long youll get squished (and hear a lovely crunching noise too)

6) If you dont take the Aglophoutis when fighting Claudia, you break out in a blood rash and die.

7) Falling down holes. Sucks, but it happens

8) If the nurses kill you, a puppet doctor turns up and drags her off

9) If you don't turn the power off on the lakeside roller coaster, youll get squished, just like the beginning.

And thats what I found (I was bored on my third playthrough so I just died as often as I could ^^)

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4c) The last place we see Vatiel is just before the battle with "God?" Vatiel is crawling towards God? To cover it's face with the blanket/curtain. This protects God? From getting hit by Heather's bullets. This action suggests that Vatiel is in fact protecting the being within Heather and not Heather herself. This too is important.

I always interpreted this quite differently. The hood that Vatiel places over God's head seems to retard her motion. If you look at her head during the battle, when she leans forward to swing her arms her head is held back by that hood. I always figured she'd be a more effective boss could she free herself from this restraint. My interpretation therefore would lean Vatiel more toward subservience to Heather, rather than God.

Just a thought.

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Following on from M@'s ideas, it seems a little odd that Valtiel would not attack you when he has so many chances.

I therefore suggest that he is not a bad guy after all...

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4c) The last place we see Vatiel is just before the battle with "God?" Vatiel is crawling towards God? To cover it's face with the blanket/curtain. This protects God? From getting hit by Heather's bullets. This action suggests that Vatiel is in fact protecting the being within Heather and not Heather herself. This too is important.

I always interpreted this quite differently. The hood that Vatiel places over God's head seems to retard her motion. If you look at her head during the battle, when she leans forward to swing her arms her head is held back by that hood. I always figured she'd be a more effective boss could she free herself from this restraint. My interpretation therefore would lean Vatiel more toward subservience to Heather, rather than God.

Just a thought.

According to the developers, in the documentary I have (and keep referring to), they spoke of the covering of her face like that, was a custom in many cultures when someone had died. That's what they said, and that's where they got it from. Not sure how that fits in with God, though, since he covers her face before you kill her.

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Silent Hill 3 Spoilers

According to the developers, in the documentary I have (and keep referring to), they spoke of the covering of her face like that, was a custom in many cultures when someone had died. That's what they said, and that's where they got it from. Not sure how that fits in with God, though, since he covers her face before you kill her.

It is possible that this is forshadowing. It might suggest that Vatiel has some foresight of the events of the game. Or it could be that Vatiel is morning the death of the Claudia who was probably killed when God? was "born." I suggest that Claudia is killed when she "gives birth" to God? because Heather gets a game over sequence if you don't prevent it's "birth." Suggesting that she dies.

My biggest problem with this is then, why doesn't Heather get reborn like in the first game? Was doesn't God? also get reborn when Heather kills it? It's bothered me since the first time I played this game. Was there something special about the first game that sets it apart the second? Think about the two sequences.

Primary Assumptions: First, we need to assume that Harry gets the Good Ending in SH1 (not the Good+ Ending). The reason is that if Cybil were saved, Harry would not have the Aglaophotis (sp?) to give to Heather. (Tragic. Save your friend or save your daughter?) Also, the reason it is the Good Ending is that Harry doesn't get a baby in the Bad Endings, obviously.

Okay, in SH1, Dr. Kaufman uses the Aglaophotis on Alessa/Cheryl. This causes Incubus/Samael to be extracted from Alessa/Cheryl. When you defeat the Incubus/Samael, Alessa/Cheryl reappeared and created her incarnation, which is later known as Heather.

In SH3, Heather uses the Aglaophotis on herself to extract God? (in fetus form). Claudia eats it and tries to give "birth" to it. When Heather defeats God?, nothing happens (well, in the Normal Ending). God? is dead and that's that. Why didn't the same thing happen again? Why wasn't God reborn in a reincarnation of Claudia?

The only thing that might suggest something happens after you kill God? is in the Possessed Ending. After Heather kicks the crap out of the dead God?, we see her turn around just as the scene fades to black. We then see Heather reappear in the Amusement Park, with a knife, having just killed Douglas. A cold blank look is on her face. If Heather really is possessed, by whom or what is she possessed? God?, Vatiel, or something else? If I could explain that part, I might be able to explain why God? doesn't get reborn.

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wel incarnation take year, as you see from sh1 to SH3.

maybe a new incarnation is somewhere. the question is have you kill the god really?

and about the possessed ending, i suppose it's the influence of god?/valtiel? that took over heather (supposition, could it be possible, the god is anew in her womb to reborn again?)

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Ok, I haven't looked through all the pages so I don't know if this has been asked (or mentioned by others) before, but I'm curious. SH1 was absolutely awesome as far as scare tactics go. It was very creepy and eerie, and the first time I played it was with the lights off...so my question is, what other kinds of games would you recommend that go along the same sort of lines as this game? Keep in mind though these two criteria:

1.) I'm looking for games for the PSone, or N64 if there are any...

2.) I'm talking games that have good gameplay and can be enjoyed the same way as SH1 (in a dark room).

Thank you for tolerating me if this has been asked before... :wink:

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