Silent Hill Discussion

[Attim]

The big gripe I have with SH4 is going back and forth between the worlds and Room 302. That was very annoying for me.

Another thing that bothered me was how there are only two main factors in the game that determine the game ending. In part one and two, there were so many things that determined the ending and I really liked that.

And another thing was that we have to visit the same worlds twice and there wasn't enough of the hospital world. Those have always been my fave worlds in the SH series!

One thing that I liked about SH4 is the hauntings in the Room. That was very cool! Not only that, but I did like the ghosts very much, even though they were annoying at times.

I also like the fact that Eileen can help you fight, that was awesome.

[Cuddly PyramidHead]

Another thing that bothered me was how there are only two main factors in the game that determine the game ending. In part one and two, there were so many things that determined the ending and I really liked that.

There were only 2 main factors that determined what ending you got in Silent Hill as well.

[Navi]

Another thing that bothered me was how there are only two main factors in the game that determine the game ending. In part one and two, there were so many things that determined the ending and I really liked that.

There were only 2 main factors that determined what ending you got in Silent Hill as well.

...chainsaw?

[ILLiterate]

Hey never saw this thread before but its pretty damn sweet.

Silent Hill's always been one of my favorite games for two reasons...

1.This game ACTUALLY scares me, none of the cheap "OMG SOMETHING POPED OUT" scares just like...wow the monsters are so fucked up sometimes its crazy

2.The MUSIC and SOUND EFFECTS are beautiful. Im currently working on a Silent Hill 2 remix for Promise(link in my kinda-sig)and I just love every second of it.

You guys think that they should do SH like there staring to do RE...give you more action and control(but still keeping the shit-my-pants-factor the same)?

[ifirit]

Here's a question for you...I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but...

*SPOILERS*

In SH2, everything in James' version of Silent Hill has to do with water...Of course, when reality shifts and we enter a slightly darker version of Silent Hill (alternate), it is of course, raining...Just like in SH1....But there is more. The lake, the Blue Creek apartments, the huge amounts of water damage everywhere, the well and flooding in the prison, the basement flooding in the hotel, the water hallways of the labyrinth...The "water" ending. Anyway, I just wondered what you all think the water means. And why is it exclusive only to James? Angela experiences fire, which is pretty damn cool as well...but anyway...It's pretty interesting...

Silent Hill 2 Spoilers:

Though this topic has been brought up before, I've never really felt like it had been addressed properly. In part, due to the ambiguous nature of the game, and also due to my inability to provide a satisfying answer on the subject. (There is also the fact that some of the evidence gets misinterpreted.)

Anyway, I'll try to summerize the connections that water has on the town of Silent Hill and the concept in general. Water is apparent in Silent Hill for two reasons, though obvious: 1) Silent Hill was established very close to Toluca Lake, 2) Water is a symbol of both life and death, which Silent Hill 2 deals with; unlike fire, which is used to only symbolize pain, death and destruction.

With regard to James, in the end of the game, he is caught between choosing to continue his life or end it. Although, he may have different reasons for doing either, after realizing the truth about Mary, he must choose one or the other.

In the many instances that James encounters water, it never really interacts with him, until near the end. The view of Lake Toluca in the beginning is at a far off distance. The water logged apartment complex is guarded by the Red Pyramid Thing. The shoreline in Rosewater Park is almost invisible in the fog. In each case, James is always never actually gets close enough to reach the water, which symbolizes his choice to live or die. So, until the after the fight with Eddie, James never contemplates his choice. He doesn't reach the a point for which he should consider it.

Therefore, as James rows across the water towards the Lakeside Hotel, this actions symbolizes his attempt to weigh the option. He asks himself, "Is this journey worth continuing, after everything that's happened?" It is only when he reaches the other end of the shore that he makes his decision, in the Lakeside Hotel.

As such, the water has enveloped James before the final fight. The rain is seeped into the hotel and drenches everything around him. The time for James to make his decision is very near.

Therefore, in the endings watch how the developers use the visual of water. Obviously, in the "In Water" ending, the entire view is in water, meaning that James has choosen to use water for death. In the "Rebirth" ending, water becomes a symbol of life, as James travels across it to perform the ceremony that will bring Mary back to life.

Watch each ending and determine for yourself what water means for James, and for you since you become so involved in his role.

EDIT:

SH3 grew on me and impressed me a lot.

Holy shit, what?

SH3 is, easily, the worst of the series, in my opinion. Just wasn't nearly as fun to play, and it wasn't nearly as creepy-ambient as the others.

Even though, many people disagree with me, I really liked Silent Hill 3. I thought it had the best atmosphere since it combined the harsh darkness of Silent Hill 1, with the soft ambience of Silent Hill 2, while adding some new things in the mix. Had I not already been jaded by the continuation of certain motifs in the Silent Hill series, I might be inclined to call it the best atmosphere of any horror game.

But, I won't.

Though, the story has several major holes in it and doesn't quite end appropriately, I like it's character development and the attention to detail in the characters motions, speech, and actions. And as I write this, I realize now how much the experience of the game is shaped by your ability to tune into these subtleties. Which probably explains why whenever I try to explain the story, people go "hmmm....", but once they've played it go "ahhh..."

Anyway, for people who like strong character development over tightly written storylines, I think Silent Hill 3 is a good recommendation. Silent Hill 2 offers a really great introduction into the series, but is also misleading as to the nature of the rest of the games. Silent Hill is awesome to play by yourself, in the dark, at the wee hours of the day, but is considered dated in terms of visuals, though its style is difficult to beat. (Any game that uses a software's limitations in new and creative ways is always a good game.

EDIT2:

Another thing that bothered me was how there are only two main factors in the game that determine the game ending. In part one and two, there were so many things that determined the ending and I really liked that.

There were only 2 main factors that determined what ending you got in Silent Hill as well.

Actually, there are 2.5 factors that contribute to the game ending that you get.

Silent Hill Spoilers

Although, one of the factors is whether or not you save Cybil, the other is whether or not you save Kaufman AND if you discover the secondary Agalophotis vial in the motel. That is why I say there are 2.5 factors in which ending you get.

Though, if you go to the trouble of saving Kaufman in Annie's Bar, you are most likely to complete Kaufman's side quest, it is possible to just skip finding the Agalophotis vial and continue through the game. But, you won't get the Good or Good+ ending.

Still, the point is valid that there are not very many contributing factors that control which ending you recieve at the end of the game as compared to SH2 and SH3.

EDIT3:

You guys think that they should do SH like there staring to do RE...give you more action and control(but still keeping the shit-my-pants-factor the same)?

According to some early rumors on Silent Hill 5: Shadows, the developers are considering downplaying the action elements of the series in place of stronger atmosphere and tougher puzzles. One rumor went so far as to say that the game will not include the ability to fight AT ALL.

Truthfully, I hope that this is not the case and that these are just rumors. However, at the same time, I don't think that high action elements really belong in this series as it messes with the pacing and the way the player views the atmosphere. If too much attention is directed at trying to survive the moment, often the player doesn't have the ability to let his/her mind wander into the depths of the surroundings.

It's a delicate balance between knowing when to intimidate and when to let yourself be intimidated. If you press too hard, the game may appear "unimmersive," while if the game presses you to much, players will eventually feel bored or frustrated. It's when developers know this difference and utilize it efficiently that great games are developed.

EDIT4: Has everyone figured out how to get the four endings in Silent Hill 4: The Room? Has anyone beaten "One-Weapon Mode?"

[Monobrow]

UE wrote:

I'm planning on buying SH2 and getting SH4 for my birthday; SH3 grew on me and impressed me a lot. I haven't been freaked out playing a game like this, well, ever really.

You should really try to play the first SH game as well, because 3 is a continuation of its story-line. SH will always be my favorite, although I love how psychological 2 is. But anyway, it is easy to get past the sub-par graphics (nowadays) in the original game in no time, and it still will probably scare you shitless. The details that went into that game, and all of the references to the entire horror genre are just plain amazing.

So anyway, just thought I would mention the original...because it really is an essential game to play if you really want a great introduction into the world of Silent Hill.

Eh. I read the plot and all of its nuances, so I understand the story and everything. I might play it one day.

That really isn't enough...And you will be missing out...Oh well.

[ILLiterate]

Wow the original Silent Hill was a pants staining game. As soon as that damn flying thing came through that window right at the start I was scared as hell, more afraid of what wasnt there than what was...great

[NecromancerMondo]

I love the Silent Hill series. Except for 4, I've heard that one sucks, I have yet to play it. The first Silent Hill's alternate world seemed more frightening then it's sequals'. I think the sound had something to do with that.

[Cuddly PyramidHead]

I love the Silent Hill series. Except for 4, I've heard that one sucks, I have yet to play it.

o ok thanks for the insight there

[StarZander]

Thank you ifirit for your insight. We always love to read it. And it seems this thread is alive again! Woohoo!

SILENT HILL 4 SPOILERS

On the note of getting all the endings in SH4, from what I have heard the two factors on getting the endings are if Eileen walks into the pool of blood during the final bossfight or not, and if you have cleansed your apartment from all the haunting spirits and stuff. I missed the part where they explaiuned that though, so the whole place was really freaky. Pretty cool though.

I have yet to find the willpower to go through this game again, though. It was too boring. Too tedious. Baah.

[ifirit]

I love the Silent Hill series.

If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?

[StarZander]

I love the Silent Hill series.

If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?

Noooo! Pyramid Head isn't single anymore. And I bought him all these human sacrifices...

[RimFrost the Tourianist]

I love the Silent Hill series.

If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?

I love Maria from SH2 (forbidden love hurts so much)

i tried sending her an email but she won't respond

[ILLiterate]

Speaking of marrage you know if they accept gay marrage they have to accept all marrage? That means, for you slow ones, you WILL be able to marry you favorite videogame characters

Anywho whats your most frightening moment in SH history? For me its just seeing the monsters, there all so scary and the way that the meat handed character moved in SH3...wow

[StarZander]

Anywho whats your most frightening moment in SH history? For me its just seeing the monsters, there all so scary and the way that the meat handed character moved in SH3...wow

Walking into that first alley, in the first SH game. A moment to remember.

[Carousel Nightmare]

Anywho whats your most frightening moment in SH history? For me its just seeing the monsters, there all so scary and the way that the meat handed character moved in SH3...wow

I agree with StarZander...yep.

[Monobrow]

Walking into that first alley, in the first SH game. A moment to remember

Ditto...After my first time playing up to that point, it took me a couple of years to pick up the controller and try the game again.

Here are some others that almost are equally as scary for me.

1. The fourth floor button in the elevator in the hospital in SH...and the added supersticious correlation between the number 4 and death, especially in Japanese culture.

2. Jumping down the holes in SH2 in the prison and labyrinth: The well, the gated hole, the wax/shoe hole, the body dumping hole, the elevator ride, and your own grave...I think that's all of them...fucking mind warp I tell ya.

3. Encountering Pyramid Head in the Labyrinth, especially right before you meet up with Angela again. I sure as hell didn't expect that...Damn AI...

4. The teacher's lounge in Midwich school. The picture on the wall, and the reality of it when you enter the alternate school.

5. The mirror storage room in SH3.

6. The god damn clock tower music in SH.

I haven't played four yet...so eh...

There's many more, but I think I will stop here.

[Carousel Nightmare]

I remember another one that scared me was the Mannequin in Silent Hill 2 that was wearing Mary's clothes and had the Pocket Light in the blouse...I guess it wasn't exactly "scary" but it freaked me out..

[BocoDragon]

Even though, many people disagree with me, I really liked Silent Hill 3. I thought it had the best atmosphere since it combined the harsh darkness of Silent Hill 1, with the soft ambience of Silent Hill 2, while adding some new things in the mix. Had I not already been jaded by the continuation of certain motifs in the Silent Hill series, I might be inclined to call it the best atmosphere of any horror game.

But, I won't.

Though, the story has several major holes in it and doesn't quite end appropriately, I like it's character development and the attention to detail in the characters motions, speech, and actions. And as I write this, I realize now how much the experience of the game is shaped by your ability to tune into these subtleties. Which probably explains why whenever I try to explain the story, people go "hmmm....", but once they've played it go "ahhh..."

I completely fell in love with SH3. I'd be tempted to put it above the other games in the series but that would be like choosing a favorite of your children. I absolutely agree that its strong point is the subtlety of the characters. People like you and I found something very interguing about playing as this cool young chick against the forces of hell, but you know that some people might just not get it. Their loss entirely

Oh, and what "major holes" in the plot do you speak of? Do you mean actual inconsistancies or just the usual SH vague-ness about what is really happening?

SH1-3 are all masterpieces for different reasons.

SH4 is original and wierd as hell, but it just didn't try very hard to be very scary, and it made some dumb design choices.

I think the reason there's so little dialogue on it is because it really doesn't capture the imagination in the way that the first 3 did.... It almost didn't try to. Little character development, and the storyline was a rather standard supernatural serial killer yarn. Is this Nightmare on Elm Street? It was good, yes, but not really outstanding. Just "another installment". Something this series had never seen before.

[StarZander]

I remember another one that scared me was the Mannequin in Silent Hill 2 that was wearing Mary's clothes and had the Pocket Light in the blouse...I guess it wasn't exactly "scary" but it freaked me out..

It looked freaky at first, when you came in and just saw the light... then the mannequin holding the light. But the part that startled me the most there was that when you took the light, a mannequin enemy rose up immediatly. Wasn't prepared for that.

[Carousel Nightmare]

I remember another one that scared me was the Mannequin in Silent Hill 2 that was wearing Mary's clothes and had the Pocket Light in the blouse...I guess it wasn't exactly "scary" but it freaked me out..

It looked freaky at first, when you came in and just saw the light... then the mannequin holding the light. But the part that startled me the most there was that when you took the light, a mannequin enemy rose up immediatly. Wasn't prepared for that.

Yeah, that's a better way of explaining the scary.

[ifirit]

Oh, and what "major holes" in the plot do you speak of? Do you mean actual inconsistancies or just the usual SH vague-ness about what is really happening?

Silent Hill 3 had holes by having certain inconsistancies in the storyline. Though we learn that Heather is Alessa and Cheryl reborn, there is little indication from Heather about either Alessa's or Cheryl's feelings or memories from that time. I always thought that Heather would have had greater insight into the story and about the workings of the cult than the story revealed.

Also, there are some little things like the question of Vatiel and the reason for its appearance, why Claudia has "special powers" (as quoted by Vincent), why the alternate world was visible to Douglas and Vincent, ect. I could understand if there was a vagueness about the answers, but Konami failed to even address these questions at all. Though, we do learn a lot about the series from number 3, there are so many direct questions the game avoids.

SH4 is original and wierd as hell, but it just didn't try very hard to be very scary, and it made some dumb design choices.

I think the reason there's so little dialogue on it is because it really doesn't capture the imagination in the way that the first 3 did.... It almost didn't try to. Little character development, and the storyline was a rather standard supernatural serial killer yarn. Is this Nightmare on Elm Street? It was good, yes, but not really outstanding. Just "another installment". Something this series had never seen before.

Silent Hill 4: The Room is a completely weird game in itself, however, the entire game was designed around a single motif idea: Fear within comfortable surroundings. As a result, they created light sources in every part of the game, which were only reserved before to highlight certain aspects in previous games.

They tried to reaffirm the "body shock" (A term developed by Diabolical Dr. Eccles.) element of Silent Hill 1, as well some other smaller elements from Silent Hill 2 (i.e. non-player character escorts, undefeatable enemies, and long streches of corridors, hallways, holes). The greatest successes were in the subtle touches added to the game. Since the element of light is introduced in the game, the developers used the concept of shadows to freak you out.

My favorite part is the wheelchair monsters (though DDE would disagree), because if you use the lighting at just the right angle, you can see the ghost riding on it. (Very creepy and funny at the same time.) The use of shadows in the Water Prison were also nicely done, since you did get that feeling of being watched while in the cells. (I never like to be those rooms for more time than I need to.) Also, take notice of shadows that may appear in Henry's apartment room, as sometimes they will appear or appear differently.

Another strange twist is that in the building world, though you appear to be going constantly downward as you progress through the level, you are in actuality teleporting between different parts of the Hotel South Ashfield and Fusielli Restuarant, which is across from the South Ashfield Heights apartment complex. This small piece of information adds to my theory that all of SH4 takes place in Nowhere.

[BocoDragon]

Good insight into SH4 Ifrit.

But I personally believe that SH3 has no plot holes, exactly, and everything you mentioned does fall under the realm of "vagueness". It is a trademark of this series to just not tell you very much about what is "really" going on, which obviously serves to heighten the sense of the unknown.

It has been touched upon before in this thread, but I'm a firm believer that these games are 100% subjective dreamlike experiences. I have no desire to figure out the "rules" governing the wierdness. I have no desire to place the events of SH on a timeline. It's why, even though I'm probably as big of a fan of these games as posters like you and Eccles, I have not posted story theories in this thread, etc, because I believe it is the subjective appeal and connection to the characters that drive the interest of this game.... not necessarily the actual story.

I mean... What causes the terror? Is it drugs? Did you die? Aliens? Is Maria good or is she bad? Should you kill yourself? Depending on how you play these games, it can be all of these things. Apparantly the story never really matters, it can end in any way. It's the emotions of the experience that matter the most.

There are undeinable motifs and hidden messages in these games, which deserve to be studied. But it will also kinda never really add up to anything...

It's always a great read when you guys post something though It is great to see the unique Silent Hill fandom at work. Definitely an intelligent bunch, I'd say.

[Carousel Nightmare]

I've played through Silent Hill 4 once, and I need to know, does Henry's shirt actually get dirty? I don't know if you all already brought this up or not, so I felt like I'd ask...

[ifirit]

But I personally believe that SH3 has no plot holes, exactly, and everything you mentioned does fall under the realm of "vagueness". It is a trademark of this series to just not tell you very much about what is "really" going on, which obviously serves to heighten the sense of the unknown.

It's not vagueness. "Vagueness" is whether or not you can tell if something is one thing or another. In the cases I mentioned above, there is no answer. There is nothing to compare one thing to another. Being vague would mean a case like: "the monsters are really people. I'm just joking." They might be, or they might not be; that is subjective.

A case where the material might not be considered "vague" is where the developers create a notion about a certain topic as being the central idea of an event or give you no information at all, creating a hole in the story. Though, the developers try to lead you astray by dropping in certain distractions, they ultimately either give you something to determine what the whole story is about or nothing at all (such as the case I mentioned above).

It's not that the games are always vague, or that the story has some sort of multiple dimensioning to it. The stories weren't developed to have a single story in mind or any story for that matter, but as the series continues, the direction that Konami is leading us is towards a single storyline. So, knowing what the difference between a subject being vague and non-existant is of importance to decifering the story, and ultimately understanding those experiences and emotions.

Knowing what to feel may be just as subjective as determining whether or not something is a "dream-like experience." Should I feel sad that Alessa was killed, or overjoyed? Does Dahlia make me feel safe, or stalked? Because if it's all just a dream, then why feel anything? (*Inspires interesting SH4 theory idea.*) Why even take the series under consideration if you know that it doesn't really matter anyway? It does, and it should. But, I guess the point is to balance it out.

We should know when and where it's important to consider the make-up of the games. Thinking too much might lose your audience, and thinking too little invites unanswerable questions. But, I'll provide one extreme, because there are too many people providing the other.

P.S. Saying that "I'm a firm believer that these games are 100% subjective dreamlike experiences," qualifies as a theory about the games. So, that right there creates a paradox in your thinking.