ifirit Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 The theories originate mostly from the refernces in the game. This part comes mostly from "Rosemary's Baby." EDIT: Anybody else notice that Heather's pendant is the same as Rosemary's from the movie. Was it just a coincidence that it was used to bring god out of Heather? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 ifirit, very interesting theory.Silent Hill 2 was by far my favorite, mainly because James's character is so utterly believable. I tend to think he is absolutely nutty as they come, yet very human. I didnt like James...really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I see...where did this half-soul theory originate? Was it stated in any of the games? Bearing in mind I haven't played 3 much at all, I fully realize my take on the games could be totally incorrect. It was explicitlly explained in SH1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night10194 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 Just got Silent Hill 2 for the PC...I'll provide my crazed Englisher's analysis as soon as I get far enough. Glad to see so much interesting discussion on this extremely intriguing series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarZander Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Thank you all, for your theories on SH2. I've only beaten it three times so far, and I haven't gotten the Rebirth ending just yet. I'm working on it though. I HAVE played the other two games enough to make my own theories about them... No real overall theories perhaps, but theories on a few things inside the plot. For example... It is told in the first game that Alessa was burned alive, probably by her mother, in order to stop Samael from using her. But... She lives, somehow, in the hospital. Lisa watches over her all the time, and wonders what's keeping her alive. The theory of her only having half her soul, might be a result of the tremendous injury and pain from the fire. But... At some point she dies. Or, atleast, she is reborn. This is when Harry and his wife finds her as a baby. They adopt her, and name her Cheryl. Perhaps the scorched body of Alessa lives on, even though she has been reborn as Cheryl, and when Alessa finally dies, Samael summons Cheryl, and Harry, to Silent Hill in order for them to complete the ritual and manifestation of Samael into our world. But something that's more likely to be true, in my opinion, is that the scorched body lives on, so that Samael has some power in our world, but it's not enough to change it completely. He then summons Cheryl to Silent Hill, and with her help, he can be complete. The "Nightmare" states of the school and hospital can be explained by these theories: Samael want to create a "Paradise" for all of humanity (as suggested in SH3), but he has no knowledge of what paradise would be to a human. Since he has possessed Alessa, the only source of information available to him, are her memories. But Alessa has no pleasant memories... She has only experienced nightmares. At school, the kids teased and hazed her and called her a witch, because of her powers, and therefor the school is the first place to be turned into the "Nightmare" state. The walls look scorched, from the fire experience she had, and this manifest itself everywhere, probably since it was such a traumatic experience. Then the hospital room had a grating floor (which also manifest itself in most "Nightmare" places) and since the hospital is a very important place to Alessa, that is also turned into "Nightmare" early. Then the rest of the town start to change into all of this. Then the characters. There are only a few people "allowed" to be in Silent Hill, and those are connected Alessa or Cheryl in some way. Harry was Cheryl's father, and since Cheryl wanted to be with him, he didn't disappear or turn into a monster. Also Dahlia was Alessas mother, and Alessa probably saw some comfort with her, so she could be there aswell. Lisa watched over Alessa in the hospital all the time, so Alessa knew that she was no monster, like the rest of the town and the kids at school (they are monsters to Alessa because of what they did to her). OR maybe Alessas "Paradise" was to just kill everyone that made her life hell, or show them what a hell it was, and therefor this occured with Samael's powers. I don't know how Cybil fits in though. Perhaps Cheryls way of trying to help Harry. Everyone needs a friend, right? Same with the items you find everywhere. It's like a fight between Alessa and Cheryl sometimes. Alessa wins over Cheryl a bit when Cybil is possessed and tries to kill Harry. Then we have the Doctor and the drugs... I have no real theories about this... Was he one of the doctors standing over Alessa, planning on the whole thing? Anyway. I have to go to bed now, but tell me what you think of my theories, and I'll read it in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night10194 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh, and this Silent Hill comic that came up earlier? Pray tell where it was from, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarZander Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh, and this Silent Hill comic that came up earlier? Pray tell where it was from, please? It was no comic. It was a clip from the UFO ending in SH3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuddly PyramidHead Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh, and this Silent Hill comic that came up earlier? Pray tell where it was from, please? It was no comic. It was a clip from the UFO ending in SH3. No, the other comic that Dracko posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh, and this Silent Hill comic that came up earlier? Pray tell where it was from, please? It was no comic. It was a clip from the UFO ending in SH3. No, the other comic that Dracko posted. I do believe I have 6 more pages of that lurking about my HD somewhere -edit- I also have the DVD on here...though I'ma dump it tonight cause I could do with 16mb more space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doulifée Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 maybe cybil pass on the another reality because she was near harry's car. i suppose when alessa's half spirit cheryl came near her, something happens and she was drowned to the foggy silent hill. harry and cybil was drowned there to. That don't explain why she was not turned into a monster at least not immediately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 maybe cybil pass on the another reality because she was near harry's car. i suppose when alessa's half spirit cheryl came near her, something happens and she was drowned to the foggy silent hill. harry and cybil was drowned there to. That don't explain why she was not turned into a monster at least not immediately.... Everybody in silent hill 1 was in an altered state of consciousness when the game begins. Harry was unconscious at the wheel Lisa was also unconscious Kaufmann was taking a nap Cybil was in Brahms. similarly, when silent hill goes to the darkside with Cybil in it, she was knocked out thanks to the leech that got her in the sewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 From what I've heard, there are three Cybil extra stories revealed in the "Silent Hill: Play Novel" which was released in Japan only. If anyone can read Japanese, maybe they could provide a translation for us. However, from the screenshots, it looks like the is some interaction between Cybil, Alessa, Cheryl and another character, whom I don't recognize. If you'd like to read a partial translation, check it out here. (Dead Link) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doulifée Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 thank for the link ifrit ! Eccles >> Everything was made like each character is living a nightmare.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 thank for the link ifrit ! Eccles >> Everything was made like each character is living a nightmare.. I would say no to that. Since Kauffmann seems to have no problem in the game (save for the one instance when you shoot a growler offa him) Same deal with Dhalia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doulifée Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 i was talking about playable character here. Harry wake up in his car, Heather is sleeping in the burger shop. exception of james but he look like an awakening man after a long trip on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Silent Hill 1 Spoilers Thank you all, for your theories on SH2. I've only beaten it three times so far, and I haven't gotten the Rebirth ending just yet. I'm working on it though.I HAVE played the other two games enough to make my own theories about them... No real overall theories perhaps, but theories on a few things inside the plot. For example... It is told in the first game that Alessa was burned alive, probably by her mother, in order to stop Samael from using her. But... She lives, somehow, in the hospital. Lisa watches over her all the time, and wonders what's keeping her alive. The theory of her only having half her soul, might be a result of the tremendous injury and pain from the fire. But... At some point she dies. Or, atleast, she is reborn. This is when Harry and his wife finds her as a baby. They adopt her, and name her Cheryl. Perhaps the scorched body of Alessa lives on, even though she has been reborn as Cheryl, and when Alessa finally dies, Samael summons Cheryl, and Harry, to Silent Hill in order for them to complete the ritual and manifestation of Samael into our world. But something that's more likely to be true, in my opinion, is that the scorched body lives on, so that Samael has some power in our world, but it's not enough to change it completely. He then summons Cheryl to Silent Hill, and with her help, he can be complete. I think you need to listen more closely to the dialogue in both SH1 & 3, particularly the "Drawing Power Conversation" (SH1), the "Good Ending" (SH1) and the "Car Ride" (SH3). The "Nightmare" states of the school and hospital can be explained by these theories:Samael want to create a "Paradise" for all of humanity (as suggested in SH3), but he has no knowledge of what paradise would be to a human. Since he has possessed Alessa, the only source of information available to him, are her memories. But Alessa has no pleasant memories... She has only experienced nightmares. At school, the kids teased and hazed her and called her a witch, because of her powers, and therefor the school is the first place to be turned into the "Nightmare" state. The walls look scorched, from the fire experience she had, and this manifest itself everywhere, probably since it was such a traumatic experience. Then the hospital room had a grating floor (which also manifest itself in most "Nightmare" places) and since the hospital is a very important place to Alessa, that is also turned into "Nightmare" early. Then the rest of the town start to change into all of this. Two things need to be clarified: 1) Samael isn't looking to create paradise, the Hope House Cult ( the cult of Silent Hill) is looking for the the road to salvation to be opened up. Paradise was already created by God, but the road was not revealed to her followers. 2) Alessa's markings were not creating a path or paradise, but were, as Daliah put it, "sealing the town to the abyss." I believe this means that Alessa was sealing her power away from Daliah by hiding the town in darkness, which is not what Daliah wanted. However, the true purpose of the Mark of Metatron (aka the "Mark of Samael") is never revealed. Then the characters. There are only a few people "allowed" to be in Silent Hill, and those are connected Alessa or Cheryl in some way. Harry was Cheryl's father, and since Cheryl wanted to be with him, he didn't disappear or turn into a monster. Also Dahlia was Alessas mother, and Alessa probably saw some comfort with her, so she could be there aswell. Lisa watched over Alessa in the hospital all the time, so Alessa knew that she was no monster, like the rest of the town and the kids at school (they are monsters to Alessa because of what they did to her). OR maybe Alessas "Paradise" was to just kill everyone that made her life hell, or show them what a hell it was, and therefor this occured with Samael's powers. It's true that only certain people are drawn to Silent Hill. However, in Silent Hill 1, the people who are drawn into Alessa's world have some use to Daliah, excluding Lisa. Harry is Daliah's pawn, her Flauros piece. Cybil acts as support for Harry, helping him track his daughter, providing valuable information about Alessa/Cheryl's whereabouts, checking the amusement park while he checks the lighthouse, ect. Dr. Kaufman had been Daliah's primary source of help in the real world, so naturally she chose him to help her find Alessa by drawning him into Silent Hill. Yet, my instincts tell me that she gave up on him when she put her Flauros piece into play, letting him as well as Cybil roam around the town. I believe that Daliah is the one who is helping Harry out along his search. She places helpful items, clues and hints along his path ("path of the hermit consealed by Flauros"). Daliah states her intentions everytime you speak with her, though it is a bit cryptic. Think about what certain things try to get Harry to do. Take for instance the phone call in Midwich. The call excites Harry to find Cheryl quickly. Don't be fooled because you hear Cheryl's voice on the phone, it might not really be her. Look again at the drawings left behind in the alley and on Levin St.; they are written in Cheryl's handwriting, but how easy is it to copy a seven-year-old's handwriting? These things drive Harry to keep looking for Cheryl/Alessa, but if she didn't want to be found by Daliah, why would she entice Harry, the pawn, to find her? Now look at what Alessa/Cheryl do to keep Harry from finding her. She creates monsters to halt his actions which become increasingly stronger the closer Harry gets to her. She blocks his path by locking doors and placing puzzles (remember the puzzle books in Alessa's room). But there is some inconsistancy in the way she deters Harry from his search. One, she uses excessive force to stop him (the monsters and bosses), which is strange to do to someone you love. Two, she tries to burden his search with riddles and puzzles, which seems too smart for a seven year old. And three, she tries to pursuade him to stop looking for her by using Lisa, which is unusual since Cheryl never met Lisa, and is too peaceful an approach after trying to kill him. This suggests that there is some problems in Alessa's ability to control her world. At times, Samael's fury tries to destroy those who get too close, at others, Cheryl's love for her father persuade Alessa to seek more peaceful deterants. While in between, Alessa uses her intellect to stump Harry in his path. I don't know how Cybil fits in though. Perhaps Cheryls way of trying to help Harry. Everyone needs a friend, right? Same with the items you find everywhere. It's like a fight between Alessa and Cheryl sometimes. Alessa wins over Cheryl a bit when Cybil is possessed and tries to kill Harry.Then we have the Doctor and the drugs... I have no real theories about this... Was he one of the doctors standing over Alessa, planning on the whole thing? Cybil's role in Silent Hill is to play the "confidant." A "confidant" is a character or person who provides an ear for the main character to explain his ideas, or to discuss the events that have happened so that the audience can understand what the main character is thinking and feeling. However, the specifics of Cybil's role to the plot are hiddened from Harry since his persective doesn't give the overall truth. However, Cybil's perspective is told in the "Play Novel," but I have not read it yet. The part of Dr. Kaufman and the drugs (better known as White Claudia) is merely backstory. Using the infomation given to Harry about the White Claudia and the doctors involvement, we learn something about the presence of a cult in Silent Hill. We then learn something about their ceremonies and their attempt to find "paradise." We learn that the drug was used to perform ceremonies and to keep cult members obidient. We learn from Dr. Kaufman's clues that he was the manufacturer of the White Claudia and oversaw all of Daliah's arrangements at the hospital. Yet, it is unclear as to whether or not he was a believer of "Samael" or if he was just using Daliah as way to gain power and money. But for some reason, he kept secrets away from Daliah, like the "Aglaophaotis" and secret drug stash in Indian Runner. This suggests the latter theory. For those who have played Silent Hill 3, you learn the particulars of what the aglaophaotis is used for, but you can kind of guess it from watching it used in Silent Hill 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Thank you all, for your theories on SH2. I've only beaten it three times so far, and I haven't gotten the Rebirth ending just yet. I'm working on it though. Dude...the rebirth ending explains jack schitt. It is told in the first game that Alessa was burned alive, probably by her mother, in order to stop Samael from using her. Alessa was burned alive to cause so much pain her soul left the body (which, according to some cultures, is what happens when the human body is put through immense pain) The theory of her only having half her soul, might be a result of the tremendous injury and pain from the fire. But... At some point she dies. Or, atleast, she is reborn. This is when Harry and his wife finds her as a baby. Cheryl is half of alessa. Again, I draw here on the notes in the school. The ones saying "Who are you" and such aren't meant for Harry, but theyre meant for Cheryl. Which explains the reply "m e a r e U" Perhaps the scorched body of Alessa lives on, even though she has been reborn as Cheryl, and when Alessa finally dies, Samael summons Cheryl, and Harry, to Silent Hill in order for them to complete the ritual and manifestation of Samael into our world. But something that's more likely to be true, in my opinion, is that the scorched body lives on, so that Samael has some power in our world, but it's not enough to change it completely. He then summons Cheryl to Silent Hill, and with her help, he can be complete. The second one is correct. This is explained, as ifrit said, in certain endings to silent hill 1 in Silent Hill 1, the people who are drawn into Alessa's world have some use to Daliah, excluding Lisa. Except that Lisa was probably dead to begin with so she doesnt count. I believe that Daliah is the one who is helping Harry out along his search. She places helpful items, clues and hints along his path (path of the hermit consealed by Flauros). Daliah states her intentions everytime you speak with her, though it is a bit cryptic. That doesnt make sense, y'know? Dhalia is trying to help harry...even though she knows it could stop her seven year pln to take over the world? I highly doubt people would do that. Think about what certain things try to get Harry to do. Take for instance the phone call in Midwich. The call excites Harry to find Cheryl quickly. Don't be fooled because you hear Cheryl's voice on the phone, it might not really be her. Look again at the drawings left behind in the alley and on Levin St.; they are written in Cheryl's handwriting, but how easy is it to copy a seven-year-old's handwriting? These things drive Harry to keep looking for Cheryl/Alessa, but if she didn't want to be found by Daliah, why would she entice Harry, the pawn, to find her? The other theory goes that it's alessa manifesting those things so she can guide Harry to her, since he is the good guy (and the only one who can kill her, which is what she wants...hence her "Daddy...thank you daddy...goodbye" which I have as my shutdown noise ^.^) And three, she tries to pursuade him to stop looking for her by using Lisa, which is unusual since Cheryl never met Lisa, and is too peaceful an approach after trying to kill him. The rest of the post warranted chewing apart, but I'll spend time on this one. Cheryl is NOT creating the alternative silent hill...okay? It may be a hard concept to grasp that this sweet little 7 year old isnt summoning hell, but trust me on this one...she aint. Lisa is proof that the world is something Alessa created. Since she only appears in the alternative world and cannot leave the hopsital; it proves that Alessa created her from her memories (since the alternative world is everything that alessa knows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarZander Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Whoa whoa... Hey, Eccles, get your quotes right. I only said half those things. Blame ifrit, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 dude...it was 7am, I was tired out of my skull...dont blame me u,u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifirit Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Silent Hill 1 Spoilers in Silent Hill 1, the people who are drawn into Alessa's world have some use to Daliah, excluding Lisa. Except that Lisa was probably dead to begin with so she doesnt count. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with that? Sorry, I can't tell. I believe that Daliah is the one who is helping Harry out along his search. She places helpful items, clues and hints along his path (path of the hermit consealed by Flauros). Daliah states her intentions everytime you speak with her, though it is a bit cryptic. That doesnt make sense, y'know? Dhalia is trying to help harry...even though she knows it could stop her seven year pln to take over the world? I highly doubt people would do that. This stems off my theory that the plot is just about the struggle between Daliah and Alessa: Daliah's attempt to find Alessa and Alessa's attempt to escape Daliah. Daliah needs the combined form of Alessa/Cheryl to make her seven year plan come true. Besides, Daliah blatantly helps Harry by giving him the Flauros and the drawbridge key. Without the Flauros, Harry would not have been able to reach Alessa, thus finding Cheryl. Remember the wall of light in the amusement park? Think about what certain things try to get Harry to do. Take for instance the phone call in Midwich. The call excites Harry to find Cheryl quickly. Don't be fooled because you hear Cheryl's voice on the phone, it might not really be her. Look again at the drawings left behind in the alley and on Levin St.; they are written in Cheryl's handwriting, but how easy is it to copy a seven-year-old's handwriting? These things drive Harry to keep looking for Cheryl/Alessa, but if she didn't want to be found by Daliah, why would she entice Harry, the pawn, to find her? The other theory goes that it's alessa manifesting those things so she can guide Harry to her, since he is the good guy (and the only one who can kill her, which is what she wants...hence her "Daddy...thank you daddy...goodbye" which I have as my shutdown noise ^.^) True, that theory could work, but if you believe that, then why doesn't Alessa stick around after the Split Head (Lizard) battle in Midwich? Why does she run away on the Lighthouse? Why does she block Harry's path at the Amusement Park? I think the reason that Alessa/Cheryl does say "thank you" to Harry in the Bad Endings isn't because he kills her, but because he released her from the "cage of peace," resetting the board, Alessa's world. I admit, it not airtight, but I'm trying to stay consistant with my theory. And three, she tries to pursuade him to stop looking for her by using Lisa, which is unusual since Cheryl never met Lisa, and is too peaceful an approach after trying to kill him. The rest of the post warranted chewing apart, but I'll spend time on this one. Cheryl is NOT creating the alternative silent hill...okay? It may be a hard concept to grasp that this sweet little 7 year old isnt summoning hell, but trust me on this one...she aint. Lisa is proof that the world is something Alessa created. Since she only appears in the alternative world and cannot leave the hopsital; it proves that Alessa created her from her memories (since the alternative world is everything that alessa knows) That's what I was saying; by suggesting that Cheryl didn't know Lisa, I was trying to suggest that Alessa was in control of the world. However, whose to say that Cheryl doesn't have some small influence on Alessa's world? Maybe Cheryl used Alessa's memory of the beloved nurse to create Lisa, because she couldn't remember her mother. (Cheryl was three when her mother, Harry's wife, died.) That would have given it away if Harry's dead wife showed up in Alchemilla. But then again, Lisa is a very delicate subject and anything can be inferred by her presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Tuna Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Playing through SH1, learning stuff. Anyways, speculation. Red god in SH2. Samael? Once I finish SH1, I'ma play through SH2 again, try and find more connections. It didn't make any sense when I jsut played it... but yeah. Bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Playing through SH1, learning stuff.Anyways, speculation. Red god in SH2. Samael? Once I finish SH1, I'ma play through SH2 again, try and find more connections. It didn't make any sense when I jsut played it... but yeah. Bump. **Spoilers...of course** Pay attention to the endings of SH1. Notice the marks that Alessa is spreading across town, and then how it's referenced in SH3. The question we should be asking is, does Samael even exist? Because the "mark of Samael" seems to *really* be the seal of Metatron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Tuna Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I'll do that when I get to PLAY SH3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 *bzzzt* Im sorry, that's wrong. The talisman of metratron is historically used to protect people. The mark of samael is traditionally a summoning circle, designed to, get this, summon Samael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Tuna Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Oh, read that wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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