Jump to content

Silent Hill Discussion


Recommended Posts

Not to break off on too much of a tangent, but maybe Eccles could varify something. In the Japanese and European versions of Silent Hill, an extra quote was included in the game, so I've heard. I believe it had something to do with the town fire article Harry reads. I believe the quote said something like "the date of this article is the same day we found Cheryl."

Also, is it true that the Mumblers (knife-welding children) were replaced by the Clawfingers (clawed teddybears)? I heard the were edited out of the game because of censorship. Why, I wonder?

Again, as another side note, the extra character in the Silent Hill: Play Novel is an eight-year-old boy named Andy. He is apparantly Harry and Cheryl's neighbor. :? And he ends up in Silent Hill because he stows away in the back of Harry's car. :? He wanted to talk to Cheryl, but had never worked up the nerve while Cheryl was at home. So, he decides to follow them on their vacation. :?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Not to break off on too much of a tangent, but maybe Eccles could varify something. In the Japanese and European versions of Silent Hill, an extra quote was included in the game, so I've heard. I believe it had something to do with the town fire article Harry reads. I believe the quote said something like "the date of this article is the same day we found Cheryl."

Nope. To be frank, I dont really recall an article about the fire. The only newspaper in the game (aside from the "BILL SKINS A FIFTH" ones in town, which always make me giggle) is in the medical room and that has an article clipped out, so you ant read it

Also, is it true that the Mumblers (knife-welding children) were replaced by the Clawfingers (clawed teddybears)? I heard the were edited out of the game because of censorship. Why, I wonder?

This is true. In the school, the little children with knives were replaced with bears. And not just in the school either, they're also in the teaser level at the beginning.

This is because a few months before there was a shooting in a primary (elementary) school in Dunblaine, Scotland. Some lunatic broke in and gunned down a class of 5 year olds, so the censors figured it would be offensive to the families to have children being shot in the game.

Incidentally, they left the invisible children in the game...there's only a few of them and you only find them in nowhere, but there are one or two hildren in the game. Apparently they were considered by the censors, not to resemble children enough.

Also, I had this discussion with stan...

Where, in the US edition of silent hill, does harry say

"its like...I was there...but not really"

Because it isnt in the Eurpoean edition, except for in the fucked up glitchy cutscene you can get in the Amusement park

Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope. To be frank, I dont really recall an article about the fire. The only newspaper in the game (aside from the "BILL SKINS A FIFTH" ones in town, which always make me giggle) is in the medical room and that has an article clipped out, so you ant read it.

The newspaper article was in the book on the desk in Dr. Kaufman's office in Nowhere. It is a continuation of the one from Norman's Motel. The article reads as follows:

Investigation stalled.

"PTV" dealers still at large.

Suspicious deaths continue. First the anti-drug Mayor, now a narcotics officer dies of a sudden heart failure of unknown cause.

Fire broken out in town.

6 homes destroyed.

Chared body of Alessa Gillespie (7) found in aftermath.

Cause of fire currently under investigation.

Investigations show source as basement of Gillespie home. Blaze now believed caused by malfunction of antiqued boiler.

Did you miss it your way through the first time?

This is true. In the school, the little children with knives were replaced with bears. And not just in the school either, they're also in the teaser level at the beginning.

This is because a few months before there was a shooting in a primary (elementary) school in Dunblaine, Scotland. Some lunatic broke in and gunned down a class of 5 year olds, so the censors figured it would be offensive to the families to have children being shot in the game.

Incidentally, they left the invisible children in the game...there's only a few of them and you only find them in nowhere, but there are one or two hildren in the game. Apparently they were considered by the censors, not to resemble children enough.

Oh.

Also, I had this discussion with stan...

Where, in the US edition of silent hill, does harry say

"its like...I was there...but not really"

Because it isnt in the Eurpoean edition, except for in the fucked up glitchy cutscene you can get in the Amusement park

This quote comes from the Green Lion Antique Shop where you run into Cybil, while Harry relates his experience about the alternate Silent Hill. I believe the dialogue goes: (edited ellipses)

Harry: "Do you know anything about like some other world? It's like some kind of bad dream."

Cybil: "What are you talking about?"

Harry: "I'm not quite sure. I try to make sense of it, but then my mind goes blank. Everything's dark there and I hear sirens in the distance. I met this nurse Lisa. It's like I was there, but not really. It's all a blur, like some kind of halucination, you know?"

Cybil: "I have no idea what you're talking about, Harry."

Link to post
Share on other sites

This quote comes from the Green Lion Antique Shop where you run into Cybil, while Harry relates his experience about the alternate Silent Hill. I believe the dialogue goes: (edited ellipses)

Harry: "Do you anything about some other world? It's like some kind of bad dream."

Cybil: "What are you talking about?"

Harry: "I'm not quite sure. I try to make sense of it, but then my mind goes blank. Everything's dark there and I hear sirens in the distance. I met this nurse Lisa. It's like I was there, but not really. It's all a blur, like some kind of halucination, you know?"

Cybil: "I have no idea what you're talking about, Harry."

I'm not entirely sure, but I recognize that line. I think it's in my version of SH1. I'm playing through it once again, as we speak, so I'm gonna make sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Silent Hill 1 Spoilers

Anyone else notice that Harry's voice is used for one of the doctors in the Drawing Power conversation in Nowhere? Harry involved with the cult? This certainly adds evidence to the theory.

Someone has given the theory that Harry was once a member of "The Order" (the cult of Silent Hill) in Silent Hill, because he was a tourist there once. I didn't really entertain the theory because of such a poor connection. However, because of this conversation, I thought about it again. Not much is revealed about Harry before he finds Cheryl.

How was it that Harry and his wife just got away from Silent Hill with Cheryl without Daliah intervening? Wouldn't they have gone to the police first? Wouldn't someone at the hospital noticed a baby missing? Wouldn't it have taken months to adopt a child of that age?

These things just don't add up. It seems like there had to be either something happen in between and that more time ellapsed between Cheryl's first disappearance and the fire of Silent Hill. Was Harry actually involved with the cult? Would that explain why Harry was able to obtain Cheryl and why he was able to escape without the cult's involvement?

Maybe it's just me, but Daliah seems to know or, at least, knew about Harry when he visits the church. As she said, "I knew you would come. It was fortold by Gyromancy." She seems to have forseen Harry coming back to Silent Hill. Still, Harry seems to have no recollection of Daliah, the cult, the hospital, Lisa or anything else pertaining to Hope House (the cult of Silent Hill). So, there is nothing concrete and only some unanswered questions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Note to all:

http://www.zone.ee/black_cube/sh/enter.html

If you haven't checked this site, then do it NOW! This guy has hacked the camears in the SH games and checked out most things. The pics here could add some theories perhaps. Especially this one pic from SH2. It's the guy who was smached into the TV in the aparment. Look! It's James himself!! :o

010.JPG

EDIT: Copy and paste the link into your browser

Link to post
Share on other sites
Note to all:

http://www.zone.ee/black_cube/sh/enter.html

If you haven't checked this site, then do it NOW! This guy has hacked the camears in the SH games and checked out most things. The pics here could add some theories perhaps. Especially this one pic from SH2. It's the guy who was smached into the TV in the aparment. Look! It's James himself!! :o

010.JPG

EDIT: Copy and paste the link into your browser

Oh, that's not new. The dead guy in the apartment in front of the TV filled with static is indeed James.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Silent Hill 2 Spoilers

Considering the topic of self-destruction, why is it in our nature to seek punishment on ourselves? Is it a result of strong feelings of guilt? Do you think it is developed by social interaction? Is it natural? If so, you are humans the only creatures that commit suicide?

Sometimes I feel like I can understand how James feels when he considers suicide, but I wonder, would I really think about suicide that seriously? Why would people seek self-destruction before redemption? Why do people seek self-destruction as a way of redemption?

Many cultures see it as the honorable why to face disgrace, so we see that it ties in with human nature, but at the same time we learn that taking our own lives cannot be justified. Why such a strange dichotomy?

How would you feel about someone killing themselves for honor? Would you be sad or proud? In James' case, the "In Water" ending, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he deserved to live?

Personally, I feel saddened by the whole thing. I know James did a bad thing (really bad thing), but I felt a loss by watching him die. Maybe I'm just a sympathetic guy, but I felt sorry for James. I really pitied him. Should I feel that way if suicide is part of human nature?

What do you think?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Time for a long, spoiler filled post with my crazy ideas on SH2! If you haven't played it yet, don't read this...!

Also, this assumes the "leave" ending, as I believe that one's the true victory.

Anyhow, we will begin with the nightmarish pyramid heads, and what the hell they are. Does anyone remember the pictures in Toluca prison? Of the pyramid-head in the hanging yard? Or the way the pyramid heads kill themselves when James defeats them? Think about it...perhaps it's their head now, but that pyramid might've originally been some kind of helmet worn by executioners. This is an odd stretch, but it also makes sense. If we accept the theory that all of the monsters are created by memories, hatreds, etc, and that James sees monster that look like twisted, deformed, mutilated, insane, disgusting humans (representations of his aversion to the appearance of his diseased wife), yet can defeat all of them relatively easily...it would make sense that the monsters he can't hurt are the ones he didn't make. Also, these things seem assigned to punish him. They kill Maria, who he very much wishes to protect, multiple times, they try to execute him...and they were also seen by Walter Sullivan, a murderer who committed suicide to avoid their wrath. Perhaps they are the town's dark, twisted idea of torturers and executioners? I know it's an odd theory, but it seems to work.

Maria is the most tragic character in the story. Again, an odd theory, but remember who she is. She's born of James's wish for what he wished Mary had been all the time, someone beautiful, vibrant, and attracted to him. She's what he wanted, or the town's version of it. Which also explains her appearance. She's just like Mary, but very slightly differant (hair and clothes) as a physical representation of what she is. Anyhow, onto why she's so tragic. She is, for all intents and purposes, a person. She seems to be, at least. She has firm expectations of what James is supposed to mean to her, too. He's supposed to accept her, love her, protect her, and leave this Silent Hill place with her, to be happy (if only for the short term) with her. Instead, he realizes what she is and casts her away, accepting responsibility for his crime of killing Mary and trying to repent and redeem himself. But what about Maria? As I said, she's a person now, who had no choice to be created like this, and who is killed, tortured, strung along, and eventually cast aside by the man who was supposed to take her to love and protect, and instead destroys her. I think this is why she attacks him in the end. She's unable to let him leave without her, she NEEDS him now. It's a desperate act to try to fulfill what she thought was her fate, to force the hand of who she thought would become her lover, or to kill them both in the process.

As you can see, I obviously felt rather bad for Maria, but there was no other way. Accepting her would've been denying his crimes, and James has also learned better than to bargain with the forces in Silent Hill by now, realizing they mean nothing but temptation and eventual self destruction (look at Angela and Eddie). This is why James survives...he realizes that he has to take responsibility and move on. Angela runs away in her own way, killing herself. Eddie claims the world is at fault and has it coming, and tries to attack it in desperation, losing a shooting match with James as a result. James, though, sees the town for what it really is ("I understand now...") and realizes he must leave, though he is given a chance to make peace with the dead first. He does so, finally admitting the truth to himself and Mary, and finding through it it isn't really the whole truth, that he can infact be redeemed, and that she wants him to be. Thus, he fulfills her wish to take care of and protect Laura as a last favor, and goes on, leaving this town before it and its false promises destroy him like it did Eddie and Angela.

Also, as with regards to James being "whiney". The man is in horrible pain mentally, reconciling his own crime, forced to admit it, terrified by the abberations of flesh and bone contantly trying to rip him to shreds, unsure of his own sanity, and trapped in a literal Silent Hell, kept going only by what seemingly proves somewhat of a false hope. If he weren't hesitant and tortured-sounding, I'd be pretty damned diappointed. Try to put yourself in the character's shoes before accusing them of being whiney sissies or things. I'm not even sure I could take his predicament at all, myself.

On a really odd and creepy side note, James looks frighteningly like me...

Link to post
Share on other sites

About James and the suicide. I understand how he feels, in a way. In his case, I don't believe he feels he's killing himself to escape, I think he wants to kill himself to punish himself for his crime. He wants to execute himself for his own fault, deciding he can't possibly redeem as awful a crime as he has comitted. Still, I can't say I believe it to be the right way. Angela and Eddie, as I tried to show, are foils for James, showing how some people dodge blame and refuse redemption for their "crimes". James is the one standing in the middle of attacking the world and blaming it like Eddie, or running from it all and ending his life like Angela. He has a choice to do so, or to find his way and survive, to live and redeem himself. Perhaps it's just the personal disgust I feel at the idea of suicide, but I believe James is supposed to reject it.

Did any of that make sense?

Link to post
Share on other sites

SPOILER!

Revelation about Maria and why she becomes a demon. Think on it...Silent Hill feeds on the perceptions of the person involved, creating monsters and things based on their mind, right? Well, when James realizes Maria is created by the town, and that she's a false Mary. Well, everything else the town created was a demon, right? So naturally, Maria changes into one as well once he realizes the situation...God, that's awful for her.

Link to post
Share on other sites
But why does she turn into a big floaty woman in a box!?

It still makes no sense

Because in the endings were you face Maria rather than Mary, well, Maria's pissed off. James confesses his sins and accepts them, but Maria doesn't see it that way, because she feels that James is still lying (i.e. Protecting Mary, the representation of what James wanted in Maria rather than what he actually had).

As for when you face Mary, James finally sees the truth and realises that he wasn't facing reality. His illusions made him kill Mary, because she wasn't what he wanted. He was too scared to face the truth. The shock is too great for him so he commits suicide. I feel that the In Water ending is the best, myself.

As for the reason behind her shape when she transforms into a daemon:

She looks like the hanged men that Pyramid Heads have. Whether it's Mary or Maria, both of them are tortured by the town. It seems to me that it was a bizzarre competitive situation were either Mary or Maria would be free, and that depended on James' judgement. Obviously, the loser gets pissed, reveals her true tortured form that the town caused and fights back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

oh I understand WHY she turns into a floaty woman in a box...

Its just WHY a floaty woman in a box? Why not something like the Goddess in SH1?

(As for the guy shot in the appartment being shot by Eddie, I'll have to challenge that one, since Eddie shot the guy in the knee. He tells you in the meat locker "He'll have a hard time playing football on that knee now!")

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought about that too, about her hanging upside down and stuff. The tarot card The Hanged Man (which is one of the cards used in SH3 to open to final door) is a card of a man hanging upside down. Although the hanged man is on a cross, Mary's "cross" could be her hospital bed perhaps. If you look at it, it resembles a metal hospital bed, without a matrass(spelling?) and such.

Quoting from a site with a description of its meaning:

"The Hanged Man often refers to taking time out for spiritual searching, perhaps using "unconventional means" of searching. It involves changing directions or perspectives. There is an element of waiting involved and sometimes sacrifice. It can indicate a Rite of Passage, an initiation or a transition. The card has sometimes been called the card of the Dying God. The Hanged Man means listening to your inner self, sometimes even when it seems to go against logic. It means looking at things in new and different ways. It also indicates unconventional behavior. It is a time of being alone often and reflects the need to withdraw from time to time in order to recharge or regroup your inner energies."

Now, I see several similarities here, with SH2. (Also they had several references to hanged men in the game) I don't have time to interpret all of it at this moment, but maybe you can to it for me. But the card being the card of the Dying God, could be referring to remains of Samael's power perhaps? He is dying, since the encounter with Harry, but he linguers in Silent Hill still.

There was talk of the Hanged Man card also had alot of connections with water. Don't see any connections with the game here, except for maybe the lake, and the In Water ending.

"Astrologically, the Hanged Man is connected to the planet Neptune, and there are some obvious and clear connections between the two. Some of the negative traits of Neptune do not normally apply to the Hanged Man, however. The color of the Hanged Man is blue, the musical note is G sharp, the Hebrew letter is Mem, meaning water or waters (such as an ocean). The Qabalistic Intelligence of the Hanged Man is Stable Intelligence. (This really seems like a strange choice to me. I would not characterize the Hanged Man as stable at all.) Other attributions of the Hanged Man are the concepts of reversal and the suspended mind. The Esoteric Title is the Spirit of the Mighty Waters. The Hanged Man is on the 23rd path of the Tree of Life, between Hod and Geburah. Robert Wang calls this card the path of baptism into the Maternal Water. He also says that it is a path of "eternally unresolved possibilities. It is openness without beginning or end."

Neptune is often the great dissolver; Neptune is also sometimes the planet of transcendental ecstasy, and that fits as well. Neptune rules the sign of Pisces (Moon card), and I can see the connections between the Moon and the Hanged Man. The Hebrew word that corresponds to the Tree of Life path that the Hanged Man is on, is Mem, meaning water or waters. I think that both Neptune and the Hanged Man are each more closely related to Mem, water, than they are to each other, but the entire connection seems to work quite well here."

I don't recall the other tarot cards that were used in SH3, except for the priestess. Could someone check up on these?

Link to post
Share on other sites
oh I understand WHY she turns into a floaty woman in a box...

Its just WHY a floaty woman in a box? Why not something like the Goddess in SH1?

As for the reason behind her shape when she transforms into a daemon:

She looks like the hanged men that Pyramid Heads have. Whether it's Mary or Maria, both of them are tortured by the town. It seems to me that it was a bizzarre competitive situation were either Mary or Maria would be free, and that depended on James' judgement. Obviously, the loser gets pissed, reveals her true tortured form that the town caused and fights back.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why the floaty women in the box? I know that, it's easy.

Mary was bedridden, right? She was tied to her bed, looked like a monster (or felt like one), as she told James. It was a representation of all of the "demonic" aspects of Mary. She's also trying to drag James with her, keep him tied to her torture.

In the case of Maria, she's a monster now, and tied to the torment she's suffering forever because James tossed her aside. Thus, she's tied to the torture bed, and is trying to take James down with her, as Mary would be if he found Mary to be the demon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's been somewhat of a change of plan with my OST.

Rather than using "Papa Roach - Last resort" as the backing music, I instead intend to use "Marilyn Manson - Suicide is painless" since that fits the games much more (and isnt suck-rock like Papa Roach)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...