Goldeneye 64 remix (ReSubbed)

[BlackPanther]

Ok so like I didn't really want this to be out there until it got posted but it's been rejected twice now mainly due to my poor production skillz, so what I'm askin from you guys is stuff I can do to clean this up.

I've already got some help from palpable about some of the synths I had in the song that some of the judges shat on pretty much and he helped me with some production stuff. I want to see if you guys can bring anything new to the table.

I'll provide the source tune as well although the arrangement is done just incase people forget what it sounds like or whatever. I would greatly appreciate the feedback guys.

Edit: Subbed

[Nubioso]

Right off the bat I'm gonna say the first thing that I notice is the same thing I find to be a problem in my mixes. Overwhelming kick and bass.

Overall, the whole thing is pretty muddy. I'm on AKG K-240 studio headphones so they don't produce as much bass as some good studio monitors and it still sounds REALLY overly bassy. So no doubt anyone who puts it on some good speakers that can actually replicate 20Hz - 20kHz it just must sound really bassy.

Your kick should come down in volume a little. As it is, it's like i'm getting kicked in the face and everything else gets pushed back. When you've got your kick too high, you have a tend to push your bass up too much to try and compensate and hear both. (Using the universal 'you' here, not literally YOU =P)

Depending on the song and everything, you can actually remove more bass from a kick drum than you'd think. The kick is, get a nice boost at around the 80Hz region in the kick, get rid of some of the boxiness in the 250-500Hz region, and if you need more attack then you can give SLIGHT nudges in the 1-2KhZ region.

You could probably hi-pass the kick up to 30-35Hz, because really you want the bass to sit nicely below the kick. Even the bass, I would roll up to 30Hz, because the main musical range is 50Hz to around 16Khz, as far as what speakers can replicate and what the general public can hear.

A good idea for the bass is small boosts around the 60Hz range, and the kick being at the 80Hz range. That way, they'll both have the bass, but the full roundness comes from the bass itself, where more of the attack and thump to keep the beat still comes from the kick. More attack to the bass could be brought out in the 800-900Mhz range.

It's a solid beat, and overall a good remix, think you've got a good song here, but my guess, is that that overbearing kick and bass is what contributed to them not liking the production.

A trick to try and learn how to balance your kick and bass (for me atleast) is to turn your volume down really low. You should be able to just barely hear the bass and kick still at a volume lower than what you'd normally listen to it at. If I turn your song down really low you still hear that bass quite prominately.

Anywho, hope that helps man! And of course as, always, this is just my opinion

[BlackPanther]

Thanks for the feedback man seein as how this isn't gettin any love, it's all good though I suppose. Thanks for pointing out the bass and the kick, although noone else really had a problem with it, but if one person has a problem then more will follow. Actually this is what the judges said just to give people an idea of what my main problems will be. I will definitely get to the bass issue though I would just like some more feedback from people >_<.

[Nubioso]

yeah, I read the judges responses after writing mine:

My main gripe is that the overall mastering has the bass just a little bit too loud. And since it rides on basically 2-3 notes for a majority of the time, it was a little bit obstructive of the rest of the mix, IMO

Actually once things picked up at :49, there's still not much high-end.

the rest of the soundscape could have used more high-end to lend a little more clarity.

One judge blatantly said the bass, but they are all taking about needing clarity, high-end, and balance...which I can assure you can all be remedied through cleaning up and turning down the bass and kick a tad.

Don't try and push more high-end into the cymbals and everything else....removing bass frequencies will bring the high-end back into the mix.

So yeah, like I said, even though one judge blatantly told you the bass should be turned down, they are all talking about balance and high-end being needed for clarity and I guarantee you it's that muffling bass and kick competing with each other that is killing your balance and clarity.

Good luck man!

Those judges are definitely tough, I honestly don't think my zelda song will wind up making it, after reading how scrupulous they can be.

But hey, at least you got a resub and not a flat out no! =D

[BlackPanther]

Honestly I don't think getting a resub doesn't make a difference at all I see plenty of subs out there that get a (RESUB) so I don't feel special or honored in any form lol.

But yeah Imma get to workin on that low end when I get the chance I do notice that you can't even hear the bassline clearly which bugs me but I can never fix it, I might just change the instrument it would probably help with balancing it out better.

[BlackPanther]

Ok I've made some tweaks so can I get some more feedback people? Let's try to make the wip boards a little useful, this is close to passing and I don't want to get NO'ed again so I would appreciate all of the comments and critiques.

[Rozovian]

Not sure I like the strings sound in the intro, they sound a little too... inhuman. Hard to say what you should do about it, but a subtle vibrato might help, slightly longer attack might work... Not a big crit, tho.

Once the track kicks into gear the bass does sound too big. This is a typical mistake when being relatively new to mixing, I think my posted track is over-bassed. Comparing them, I hear you've more bass than I do. Bring the bass down a few dB, and give it back some of its higher frequencies.

I dunno how much you've changed the 1:32 lead, but I can see what Palp means. I don't think it's quite as bad as he makes it sound (you've probably done something about it, too). To me it doesn't bother me until 1:47 or so, it could use something else, something more organic from then on.

The 3:00 mid-range lead is a little thin and stale, but not to the point where it bothers me much. Blending in an amp sim bus of it might give it that extra little phat it could use, but it's not _bad_. It works. See what you can do, just don't ruin it.

This is a vast improvement over previous versions that I've heard, man. Great work, and good luck with next sub. May it be your last... of this track.

--

btw Nubioso... "800-900Mhz range"? Man you've got to have good headphones... and ears.

[Nubioso]

btw Nubioso... "800-900Mhz range"? Man you've got to have good headphones... and ears.

Thanks! =P If only I didn't have to hold the cord to my headphones in my mouth so it won't cut out. The connection is starting to screw up It's like....$30 for a new cable too!

Blackpanther - Definitely think it's better, now that the bass has been brought back a little bit. Personally, I still think the kick is too much. Maybe lowering it by 1.5 to 2db might help that. It's a pretty powerful kick you got in there, and it's really noticeable at at the 1:06-1:07 part where all there is is the kick and the scratchy synth. Since the synth is so thin and distant sounding during that part, the kick just seems too much in my face. When everything comes back in at 1:18 and you've brought more lows back into that synth it sounds thicker and isn't quite as overwhelmed.

I think I agree with rozovian about adjusting the attack on those beginning strings just a tad to try and smooth out the beginning of each note and make it seem less computer-ish. Not a whole lot, just bring the attack a tiny bit and it should help quite a bit.

Also, this is just my opinion, and totally disregard it at will, but maybe try and remove 120-150Hz in your kick by maybe 2-3dB with a Q of like.....10 (this is based on you using reasons EQ's, a Q of 10 will make a pretty narrow cut which is what I think it needs)

There's just something in that kick that's bugging my ears. Dunno, try it out, listen to it, see for yourself if you like it better.

Also, I'm curious to know what kind of compression you might have on it.

I know I know, I'm focusing a lot on your bass and kick, but personally, I think your song is pretty good and those are just the two biggest problems with it, and if those are fixed everything else should fall into place better.

[BlackPanther]

I'm seriously so close to just stop messing with the song. This computer is so fucking slow I have to render it to a wav and listen to it in audition. That and coupled with the fact that apparently this song has so many things wrong with it I can't even keep my head on straight about where to start, and I've only got the judges and two other people to help me with this. I know you guys are helping but do you even like the song or is this just bein broken down as to what's wrong with it?

Ok bitching aside :

@Rozovian - How do I add vibrato to a string sample that has no vibrato to begin with?

That synth that you hear is the one Palp isn't talking about he likes that one although I'm not really feelin it.

I'm not sure what you mean by organic

Or Amp sim bus for that matter lol.

@Nubioso - I will check that out about the kick and see what it sounds like.

Are you talkin about the compression on my kick? If so I'm using the mclass compressor input gain of 0 db threshold of 0 db I think I have the ratio around 16:1 soft knee with a super fast attack and 100 ms release.

You guys also had a problem with the strings. Unfortunately this is my best sample unless you guys were just talkin strictly about the attack. So I need less attack so they come in slower or what?

One more thing thank you guys for givin me feedback. I'm gonna throw it out there but you guys apparently have eyes I know there are alot of people wanting some feedback on their shit but I think I throw myself out there enough that I should get some in return plus this has already been through the judges and it's not a bad sounding song so it's not far from passing it's just nerve wrecking to the point of jumping out my six story window. So thank you again guys

*end wall o text.

[LuketheXjesse]

If any song from Goldeneye needs a mix

it's

.

[Nubioso]

That and coupled with the fact that apparently this song has so many things wrong with it I can't even keep my head on straight about where to start

Aww, no way man, there's really not that much wrong with it. Maybe 4 or 5 things? You're in good shape.

you even like the song or is this just bein broken down as to what's wrong with it?

I treat it like this, if I didn't like the song, I wouldn't be commenting on it and wanting it to succeed in the first place. You said yourself, there are plenty of people wanting feedback on their shit, but I don't comment on every single one. You're so close to getting this accepted, it'll happen.

You guys also had a problem with the strings. Unfortunately this is my best sample unless you guys were just talkin strictly about the attack. So I need less attack so they come in slower or what?

The sample itself is fine, and I don't have a problem with it, I use reason too, and I've used those strings. You've got a nice dramatic build up with the use of the (I believe) orkestor sound banks timpani drum swells and individual drum hits. To add to that dynamic, and just kind of...smooth over the inhuman nature of synths, adding a little less attack makes those strings come in just a tad bit more naturally and give a more orchestral feel instead of seeming like individual samples retriggered.

I'm using the mclass compressor input gain of 0 db threshold of 0 db I think I have the ratio around 16:1 soft knee with a super fast attack and 100 ms release.

Hmm, I guess I should have also asked, how many dB's is it compressing at those settings?

(Again this is advice I'm saying simply to try out and experiment with, Not that this is the answer)

Try using an 8:1 ratio, which is still a pretty agressive ratio, with an attack of 25-30ms attack, that will bring out the attack of your kick, making it heard better, yet control the "woofy" sound of it that can muffle everything else. Try to get around 3 up to 6dB of compression, experiment and see what sounds best to you.

I know this is a lot of advice, but as I always say, this is simply my opinion, and I'm offering my personal view on techniques that may help your song out. All you have to lose is a few minutes trying these different settings and see whether or not you like it better.

[Rozovian]

@Rozovian - How do I add vibrato to a string sample that has no vibrato to begin with?

I'm not sure what you mean by organic

Or Amp sim bus for that matter lol.

Vibrato, or tremolo, either would work. Tremolo might be easier to add as an effect. Chorus is a kind of vibrato tho it's on the whole strings track, not on the notes separately, but you could try that.

By organic, I mean more complex, more changing. By amp sim I mean an amplifier simulation, a kind of effect that makes it sound like it's running through a guitar amp. By bus I mean it's added to the signal you already have instead of just being an effect on the channel and changing the whole sound. basically, anything that makes the sound a little more interesting should do, whether that's a delay, a flanger, an amp sim, or some envelope-controlled synth setting change.

And yeah, the strings attack should be slower, Nubioso explained the reason well.

...and make sure to take a backup if you go screwing with compression and stuff.

So close, would be a shame if you stopped working on this now.

[Harmony]

Hey, this is pretty good stuff. My major concerns with it are the same as others have already pointed out. Overly bass heavy and those strings. The bass is a terribly simple fix. I'd consider one of 3 simple possibilities: 1) reduce the volume of the kick/bass. Effective, but might mess with your mixing in unpredictable ways. 2) put an EQ on the master bus and use a high pass filter or a low shelf to reduce the lows below, say, 100Hz for the shelf or 50Hz for the high pass. Problem with the EQ fix is that you'll lose sonic info from other instruments that you'd probably want to keep. The best solution to me is 3) use a multiband compressor and only compress the low frequencies. I've started to do this religiously on my tracks and they come out sounding cleaner and punchier than I could have ever gotten with just EQ or careful mixing. If you don't have a multiband compressor, I think T-sledge is a good one to start with. Pull up one of the mastering plugins and it will compress the bass to a much more reasonable level I think you'll be able to immediately feel a jolt of clarity injected into this mix.

As for the string samples, no sample is bad, it's just that you have to use it effectively. In the intro, they sound exposed and dull. In addition to playing with the attack and getting some vibrato in there, you might try automating a filter to give them some life. You can also layer them with a nice ambient pad. Anything to give them a bit more depth and, as said, complexity.

Hope this gets accepted soon

[BlackPanther]

@ Nubioso - Wish I could tell you how much db the compressor is compressing, but my computer is so slow that the music plays but nothing visual happens within Reason because all of the cpu is put into playing the song, and it doesn't even do that well so the meter never shows up and if it does, it's lost in the slowness that is my computer, I'm hoping to get a new mother board sometime in the next month because this is driving me crazy.

And this is a string soundfont from Audix's website that he found on some website it's not from the Orkester soundbank.

@Rozo - I'm still not following you on the bus part

It'll be almost a year since I started workin on this song. No breaks, I've been working on this almost every day except for the two times I was waiting for it as it got judged in the judges panel so subtract about 4 months off. I'm gettin tired of listenin to it and I'm sure everyone I keep sending this to so they can help me is gettin tired of it as well. By the time this hits the panel(if it does) it's gonna lose all of it's luster.

I guess making it more 'organic' will help but I've lost a lot of drive to finish this and you two seem to be the only ones interested around here. Lol for 99% of the time I'm a positive person, I guess I'm just tired of hearin my song get torn to shreds after all of the work I put into it I guess being a newb, shit like this is gonna happen.

Edit: Thanks Harmony, I use Reason though unless using the multi band compressor in Audition won't make a difference. I'll be lookin into all of that once I'm done eating my cereal.

[Rozovian]

Screw the bus. It's not that important _what_ you do as long as you get it to sound better.

[Bui]

I can't really offer any technical suggestions to you, but I really like the way you've arranged this piece. It maintains the integrity of the Bond feel while still having your own style mixed up in it. Though you go into some weird territory with the notes of the source near the end, there's always a stroke of Bond sanity to bring it back within a short time period. Surprisingly enough, this weirdness doesn't destroy the overall feel and cohesiveness, which is definitely a good thing.

It's a really solid track, it's merely suffering from some production issues. Hope you end up sticking with it.

If any song from Goldeneye needs a mix

it's

.

Check out the GoldenEye: Source soundtrack. They've actually done a couple of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVGYGKRRTuI&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0B1K2mDKxg&fmt=18

[Nubioso]

@ Nubioso - Wish I could tell you how much db the compressor is compressing, but my computer is so slow that the music plays but nothing visual happens within Reason because all of the cpu is put into playing the song, and it doesn't even do that well so the meter never shows up and if it does, it's lost in the slowness that is my computer, I'm hoping to get a new mother board sometime in the next month because this is driving me crazy.

Aww, dang man, that sucks. Oh well, it's all about the sound anyway, you don't need to see the visualization =P Just listen to it.

And this is a string soundfont from Audix's website that he found on some website it's not from the Orkester soundbank.

I was just mainly referring to the timpani with the orkestor comment, I wouldn't have guessed that the strings sample wasn't from reason originally though, but hell, a lot of string samples sound really similar anyway.

Anywho, I know it's frustrating man, but you'll get it.

[Harmony]

Thanks Harmony, I use Reason though unless using the multi band compressor in Audition won't make a difference. I'll be lookin into all of that once I'm done eating my cereal.

Yeah, I figured you were in Reason, but that doesn't mean you can't export to something else and master your work there. The last time I used Audition, it wasn't owned by Adobe, so I don't know what multiband compressors they have, but Audacity is free, easy to use, and supports VST so you could load your mix in there and tweak away. All that exporting and loading external programs sounds like a lot of work, but a little bit of a lot of work never hurt anyone

[BlackPanther]

Alright here's an update, I took the song through Audition and tried to clean this up with the added tweaks to the instrumentation and stuff. So here it is...

Check it!

[Nubioso]

Hmm, nice man, sounds like you changed some things. You changed the strings in the beginning right? Or just really tweaked with the settings, nice....also the lead that comes in about halfway through the song, I like the additional filter effects you've added to it.

I think the song is really bumping now dude, the few new subtle and nuances you've added to it really helped to improve the dynamics and overall interest of the song.

(You're gonna hate me!!) But I still think the bass is too loud. Except instead of a huge paragraph of "try this" i'm simply gonna say drop the volume down 1.5 - 2db. If it's say...85 in reason, try 80 or so, very small amount is needed.

That's just me, but other than that man, :thumbs up: solid piece dude!

[BlackPanther]

Hah! I'll look into it, I want to go back and change the kick a little bit, I don't know how to explain it, but it's too fat and doesn't really stand out. So Imma go back and fix those things.

Edit: The bass was at 68. And no, the strings are the same, I just added the CF-101 to it pretty much, and thanks 'preciates the feedback on the latest revision. This is like the one millionth incarnation of this song can't wait till this bitch is done.

[BlackPanther]

If you haven't heard the updated version, listen to it now!!

Please and thank you lol =).

[Eino Keskitalo]

Pretty cool stuff in this mix.

I like the processing on the cheap strings.. I still imagine layering it with another sound (like a pad) like Harmony suggest could add to it, especially in the very beginning of the intro, where they're almost on their own there. Once more instruments come in, it sounds better. It does have a same tremolo pattern on each note, which is a little tiring.. if you can get some variation in there, it would be great.

The chord progression in the intro, after you add the highest harmony at 00:14.. the second chord sounds terrible, out of place to me. Move the highest harmony up a semitone from where it is now in that chord, that sounds better, to my ear at least.

I really, really like 01:04-01:17 with the quietest synth sound ever playing the progression and the very nice sounding hand percussion coming in. I also like the synthwork that comes in at 01:32.

Are you sure you need 02:57-03:10? I'm really expecting a little break, a "quieter" section (like 01:04-01:17 I mentioned) or at least a change in the lead synth tone. Optionally you could insert such a section and continue with what is now at 02:57 onwards. For me the flow of the structure towards the end isn't quite optimal.

In the outro there are those two notes which I really am expecting to resolve into something. Like playing the same sound a whole tone lower (I think!) as the final note with the final drums hit.

Hope this helped!

--Eino

[BlackPanther]

I thought about it and I will go with adding an interlude. I kinda wanted to stick with the whole hyper through the whole song theme but there were a few people who said they were expecting or wanting to hear an interlude in the song. When you said the harmony was off on the string section at the beginning I don't really notice anything. Now I'm no music expert but I haven't been listening to music long enough to hear dissonance or if the intervals is off or somethin not to sound like a douche and I apologize if I did, but I'll look into it though and see if there's a better choice. But yeah Imma get on the updates. Thanks for the feedback evktalo 'preciates it =).

Hopefully my motherboard comes in by Friday so I can rekindle my motivation to finish this song and work even harder on it. Just keep the feedback and support goin so I can make this song the best it can be!!

[Nubioso]

of course then you'll have the frustration of installing a new motherboard! That's never fun =P