kage49 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Edit 5: Ok, finalized and submitted. Thanks for all your comments and help guys This is the final file: http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus-and-his-cathedral/download ------------------ Edit 4: Any comments are welcome, I'm worndering if I can submit it like this. ------------------- Edit 3: Finished I guess.. let me know what you think. http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus-wip18/download ------------------------------------- Edit 2: Added Manoria portion, fixed a few parts: http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus18-part1and2 ----------------------------------- Edit: Latest effort: http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus18_part1 It's the first part, Fiendlord's Keep + Magus Confront, then it's supposed to transition into Manoria but I still need to work on it so I cut it short. ---------------------------------- Hey all, I'm new to music in general, just got into it some months back. I was interested in orchestration specifically, so I thought I'd start learning and practicing at the same time. I chose Chrono Trigger's Magus Confronted. To be honest I'm not happy with what I got. I tried a few things here and there but I think I still keep doing the same mistakes again and again. So I was hoping if some of you here can point out what makes this piece sound so .. "off". I'd appreciate any criticism. http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus16 Fire away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Is this really the first orchestration you've ever put together? You're off to a very good start. I'm not sure if the "off" aspect that I hear is the same one you're talking about, but everything sounds very distant and muffled to me. I think this is more of a mixing/production issue than an orchestration issue. You might lighten up the reverb a bit and/or use a different reverb unit. Regarding orchestration: The oboe (or is it an English horn?) at 0:50 sounds too strident to me. You may want to either lower the velocity of the samples or change the instrument. A clarinet would probably work well in that range. The low strings could stand to be louder in places, especially the sections beginning at 1:02 and 2:00. I think french horns doubling the background strings from 1:14-1:25 would sound really nice. Everything just kind of stops at the end. I think the solution would be as simple as adding a full orchestra stab where everything cuts out (2:23). I don't know if you plan to submit this to OCR or not, but if you do, the judges will probably want it to be longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Is this really the first orchestration you've ever put together? You're off to a very good start. Thanks Moseph. But I've been fiddling with just this one track for months now I'm not sure if the "off" aspect that I hear is the same one you're talking about, but everything sounds very distant and muffled to me. I think this is more of a mixing/production issue than an orchestration issue. You might lighten up the reverb a bit and/or use a different reverb unit. You're right, I went overboard with the reverb; I guess I was too afraid the instruments would sound too fake if they got any closer to the listener. I'll fix this. Regarding orchestration:The oboe (or is it an English horn?) at 0:50 sounds too strident to me. You may want to either lower the velocity of the samples or change the instrument. A clarinet would probably work well in that range. The low strings could stand to be louder in places, especially the sections beginning at 1:02 and 2:00. I think french horns doubling the background strings from 1:14-1:25 would sound really nice. Everything just kind of stops at the end. I think the solution would be as simple as adding a full orchestra stab where everything cuts out (2:23). I agree on all points. Will keep them in mind once I re-arrange. I don't know if you plan to submit this to OCR or not, but if you do, the judges will probably want it to be longer. I think I will. I've decided to add "The Fiendlord's Keep" and "Manoria Cathedral" to the arrangement for more variety/length. I think I'll restart the file from scratch; I'll focus on the orchestration/arrangement first, then move on to mixing once I'm happy with it. Again, thanks for the detailed feedback and help, Moseph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSori Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Well, I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting anything that sounds this nice. I agree with Moseph, that oboe/english horn sounds just a bit edgy. As a whole it sounds just a bit rushed. I feel like if it slowed down a hair, and you could have notes held for just a fraction of a beat longer it'd really flesh out the sound. And lastly, if you were planning on submitting to OCR, just a forewarning, this is still very close to the source, I'd wager a bit too close. great job so far. I can't wait to hear where you take this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Thanks for the kind words SciRe, Regarding the submission part, I won't be composing any new material, except for secondary melodies, accompaniments and transitions... maybe a solo somewhere? I've read the rules for submission, but the thing is, I don't want to stray far from the original material, I'd like to think of this as original game music being adapted for orchestra. If that stops it from being accepted, no biggie, but if it does get accepted I'll know I did something worthwhile. In the end it's a learning project for me so I'll be happy to have come out of this with better skills than what I have right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 First post edited. Like I said before, I totally scrapped the last file and redid everything. http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus18_part1 It's the first part, Fiendlord's Keep + Magus Confront, then it's supposed to transition into Manoria but I still didn't start with that so I cut it short. I still need to fiddle with the equalizers and try to use more articulations for realism. Note: soundcloud messed up my file between 0:30-0:40, the original mp3 didn't have that distortion.... Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Weird wind sfx at 0:42, but it doesn't have room to add any atmosphere, it just sounds like noise. Overall, the track looks a little too compressed, you could probably relax the compression a bit. 1:35 part seems to have lost bass, weirdly, the sound just suddenly seems like a completely separate mix. Not a concern while it's a wip, but make sure not to leave two seconds of silence at the beginning of the track when you sub it. Arrangement sounds ok to me. Hard to not recognize Magus' theme. Genre adaptations and almost-covers can make it on ocr if they're interpretive enough. Don't remember all of CT's music, can't say definitely how well you've used the sources, but I'd guess the arrangement is above the bar, sound probably will be too considering how quick a learner you seem to be - when it's done, I mean. You're definitely doing well for a newcomer, "just got into it some months back" you say? Very impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks Rozovian, Yes the weird compression artifact is what I was talking about, soundcloud did something I guess, it's not in the mp3 I uploaded. I tried fixing the transition at 1:35, will upload soon. I was surprised you didn't recognize Magus' theme.. It's note for note starting at 0:30 onwards. I was actually afraid it would be considered to close to original material.. Thanks for the kind words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I fail typing. I forgot the "not". Hard _not_ to recognize it. The compression I'm talking about is the overall track volume. If you relax the overall compression you get the track more dynamic, making the loud parts more powerful and the softer parts softer. Some compression is fine, but orchestral tracks play a lot on dynamics and too much compression takes that away. 1:35 and on sounds like a differently mixed song because it lacks bass. I don't think there's a way of just transitioning from one to the other, you'd probably do better to add bass to the 1:35-end part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Added Manoria portion, fixed a few parts: http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus18-part1and2 Edit: Soundcloud is BUTCHERING my file with artifacts.. I need a new host.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberndorf Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I actually think the Manoria section sounds like a pleasant interlude, rather than a conclusion. Ergo, it would probably work to transition back from Manoria to the Dance With Death source tune, perhaps uptempo and a touch louder. I'm using John Williams' Imperial March as a model in this thought, to give you an idea where I'm coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Yeah that's the plan, I even left the transition right back into Magus. Should finish the last part this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torke Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I like what you've done so far. Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Finished I guess.. let me know what you think. http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus-wip18/download Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catharsis Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I was secretly hoping this battle would be orchestrated one day. I like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage49 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Ok, finalized and submitted. Thanks for all your comments and help guys This is the final file: http://soundcloud.com/kage49/magus-a...edral/download Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmaster987 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Sounds good to me. Also, I believe you're the first (as in ever) to nail the arrangement of the middle portion of Magus's theme properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealPath Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Nice arrangement, think you have a fighting chance with this one, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Very nice, this sounds great! Everything blends together well, good luck with the judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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