Ride of the Hero [Legend of Zelda Theme]

[DragnBreth]

EDIT: "Take 2" aka OCR says, "Nice Try, but No."

Okay, so, here I am again, with the same source music, but different remix. I've been working on my remixing abilities since my last WIP, and I think I've improved, at least slightly, since then.

I decided to go for more of an orchestral type of remix rather than... er, well, whatever the heck my last one was. Piano/Orchestral? I don't know. Anyway, the idea for this actually came to me while I was listening to Richard Wagner's "The Ride of the Valkyries." I pondered, "Wagner meets Legend of Zelda?" for a bit and then started on this... I am no Wagner. But it got me started on remixing again when I had not done so in a while, so...

Anyway, constructive criticism and suggestions are appreciated.

Take 2:

Version 2.1 Updates

----------------------------

- Attempt to fix unwanted dissonace

- Brief (and I stress brief) Sun Song cameo

- Attempt to add more dynamics to mix by

+ adding some legato strings

+ minor variations in tempo

Version 1.4 Updates

----------------------------

- Fixed unwanted dissonance

- Added concert drum backing during latter half of song

- Tweaked ending harmony with flute

Version 1.3 Updates

----------------------------

- Doubled up on some of the instruments

- Changed up the timpani a bit so it is not so repetative

- Slight EQ changes to the harp. Hopefully it sounds better

- The very last go through of the outro melody... well, you'll see. If it sucks just let me know and I'll discard it. It was kinda just a test...

- And finally, added what I think is a suitable ending to this mix

Version 1.2 Updates

----------------------------

- Took jabond's double-cymbal suggestion

- Tweeked the EQ in a number of areas

- Changed the violins during main melody

- Fixed (I hope) the issue with 1:45-2:00ish

- Slight alteration to the end

[jabond23]

I kinda remember your last WIP. Even though its a "kinda remember", that's still a good thing cause people will remember you.

Anyways. I can hear what your trying to go for and its working so far. I can hear that your trying to spread out the instruments across the sound scape, and its working pretty well. The one thing i do notice is that the mix is very dry. Meaning there's really no effects that i can really hear. Try adding some reverb to the strings and maybe a little chorus and a very slight delay also. You don't want to go overboard with the effects, but enough so they make more of an impression. Also, the whole mix seems a bit quiet, maybe that was on purpose just to avoid any clipping. Try adding 2 cymbal crash tracks, one left and one right maybe 75% panned for both. That'll help the percussion be a little more dominant. Try tweaking the EQ's a little bit too. Raise the lows slightly on the bass/lower instruments and the high mid's and high's of the more lead instruments to help bring them out more.

Lots of trial and error you'll have to do. I know, that was a little too Yoda maybe, but you seem eager to wanna learn how to do this better and this is definitely a terrific step up for you man.

I'm not sure what program your using to write these, but its still a very good start. You've got the main idea of your mix down but now you need to further that with some attention to mixing and effects.

[DragnBreth]

Thanks, jabond23. Yeah, 'kinda remember' is better than 'you've posted before?' lol.

Yeah, I too find it very dry, but have not really had any idea as to how to fix that. I'll play around with reverb/chorus/delay and see if I can work on that aspect.

Yes, clipping has been an issue, and according to FL Studio (which is what I've been using) I'm pretty darn close to clipping problems even as-is. But I'll continue playing with the EQ and maybe it'll help.

Heh, yeah, a lot of trial and error. Thats what the last month or so of working on this mix has been, lol. But I will definately continue working on it. I like this idea too much to let it die, lol.

@All: I guess I should mention that I don't think its quite finished. I mean, I've got the opening intro, the slowdown into the main theme, speed up again, but I have a feeling more should come after that... just not sure what exactly. Suggestions?

[Spakku]

Diggin' the little changes to the melody, it'd almost make believable trailer music at this point. I could swear I'm hearing tiny bits from different songs of the series mixed in and it sounds quite nice.

I think this needs to be a little faster. The way you're using those higher strings sounds off with their speed the whole way through (not to the rest of the track, just to how they're usually played), and I think it could give it a little more energy which wouldn't hurt given the style of arrangement.

1:45 to 2:00 sounds slightly off-key. Given the way the section sounds, I'm guessing that's for effect, sort of a disorientation thing going on but, as is, it doesn't work.

[DragnBreth]

Diggin' the little changes to the melody,

Thanks

One of the main issues with my last attempt at remixing was that I stuck a bit too close to the source material. Hopefully I'm improving a little on that.

I think this needs to be a little faster. The way you're using those higher strings sounds off with their speed the whole way through (not to the rest of the track, just to how they're usually played), and I think it could give it a little more energy which wouldn't hurt given the style of arrangement.

Mmm... Again, this was an attempt to improve on my last remixing project. Lack of dynamics was the issue. I thought slowing down into the main melody would add to that. I'll work on the strings, but I'm not sure I want to change the tempo... not yet, anyway.

1:45 to 2:00 sounds slightly off-key.

That is unfortunately the result of my n00bish music knowledge. I haven't actually been able to figure out what key the theme is written in... my initial thought is A# minor, but some of the chords in the progression just don't match. Now I know this is done in music, and is normal, but it makes it difficult to incorporate new ideas and make it sound good. Again, it's probably just my lack of knowledge that is the culprit here. I'll work on it.

[DragnBreth]

I've worked on it, and hopefully I've made some progress.

I've listed the alterations and additions to my first post, as well as a link to the latest version. I decided to use gameremixes.com since it provides slightly more organization to the wip process.

As always comments, suggestions, and constructive criticism are wecome.

[jabond23]

This version is definitely a step in the right direction. It seems more vibrant, and brighter. Little tweaks can go a long way. The double cymbal addition is definitely working. You want the cymbal hit to be big, but not overpowering or too loud.

One thing you can try is try doubling that lead violin track, the one playing the 4 note steps and pan one about 75% left and one 75% right. The key to do orchestral tracks is to capture that big, live sound. It can be hard, unless your willing to spend some serious money on Eastwest stuff, lol. Anyways, that's one idea. One suggestion is to use the big concert drum a little more. Sometimes that roll it does before the cymbal hit can get repetitive. Try either mixing is up a little, maybe with triplets every other time. You can also add some single hits every 4 note or so. Also, try doubling that low horn that comes in during intro and again throughout the track and pan each one about 85%. Again, you want to have a more full sound but without everything stepping on everything else.

I really like that harp (i think that's what it is), that comes in around 1:05. It seems a little muffled right now. So try bumping the highs and lowering the lows slightly on the EQ for that. You can also try using a classical guitar to harmonize with it. I think around 2:29 you might wanna try using the concert drum in triplets til the end of the track to really build it up more to the finish.

I hope i'm throwing too much at you all at once, but i think with more practice and attention this could be a great orchestral remix. You've certainly got the writing down and seem to wanna learn and improve your skills. Looking forward to your next update!

[DragnBreth]

It seems more vibrant, and brighter.

w00t!!

One thing you can try is try doubling that lead violin track, the one playing the 4 note steps and pan one about 75% left and one 75% right. [...] Also, try doubling that low horn that comes in during intro and again throughout the track and pan each one about 85%. Again, you want to have a more full sound but without everything stepping on everything else.

I'll definitely work on that. I really noticed the change when I doubled up on the cymbals, so I'm pretty excited to see how doubling up on the violin and horn will sound.

I really like that harp (i think that's what it is), that comes in around 1:05. It seems a little muffled right now. So try bumping the highs and lowering the lows slightly on the EQ for that. You can also try using a classical guitar to harmonize with it.

Yes, that is a harp (or at least the best free harp sounfont I could find, lol). I'll continue to tweek the EQ on it, see if that helps. Although an interesting idea, I'm not so great at writing harmonies, even for something as simple as the harp sections.

One suggestion is to use the big concert drum a little more. Sometimes that roll it does before the cymbal hit can get repetitive. Try either mixing is up a little, maybe with triplets every other time. You can also add some single hits every 4 note or so [...] I think around 2:29 you might wanna try using the concert drum in triplets til the end of the track to really build it up more to the finish.

Ahhh. Yeah. The roll is actually a built in function of the Timpani soundfont I'm using. Not sure how the single hits would sound as triplets, but I'll give it a try. Even if it doesn't work it'll at least be a learning experience.

I hope i'm [not] throwing too much at you all at once, but i think with more practice and attention this could be a great orchestral remix. You've certainly got the writing down and seem to wanna learn and improve your skills. Looking forward to your next update!

Not at all! As you pointed out, I am willing to learn and improve. Heck, eager might be a better term. Your advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[DragnBreth]

Update. Changes have been listed in the first post and the link has been changed to the new version.

A big 'thank you' to everyone who has made comments and suggestions thus far. Your help has been greatly appreciated!

[DragnBreth]

O.o

[selfdoubt]

I know the LoZ theme is overdone, but I didn't think my mix sucked this much.

[/selfdoubt]

Alright, back to being serious.

I'm still continuing to work on this. I -think- I've managed to fix the horrible dissonace issue around 1:45-2:00 and played around a little with the panning of the oboe and flute near the end so they're not completely treading on each other's toes. However, I'm not sure so few changes would constitute the posting of an update.

At this point my major concern is the submitability of the mix. Is it too conservative? Certainly isn't too liberal, lol. But (assuming it gets through to the judges) are the judges going to hear it and go 'Too close to the source material. No' ? Is the main melody's accompaniment too bland? What I was trying to go for a calm in the storm kind of feel. From the fast paced intro to a more calm, mellow melody, then back to being fast paced.

I guess what I was kind of picture was Link on his horse, galloping along, then stopping and kind of viewing the landscape. The calm and tranquillity of Hyrule Field, and whatnot. Then he'd ride off again, off to some adventure. *shrug*

Suggestions? Comments? Critisism?

...

Please?

[jabond23]

The LoZ theme might be overdone, but that's cause its kickASS!!!

Anyways...I like the changes. I've listened to about 6 or 7 times now and again while i'm writing this. Its sounds so much brighter and clearer now and now that i listen to it, its definitely got the right balance of liberal and source in there. One thing i still really think it needs is an accompanying concert drum beat when the brighter theme comes in around :43 and again at 2:08.

Here's an example of what i mean for the part at :43 when that lead comes in to play the source:

and here's an example of what i mean for the part that starts at 2:08:

Try doing something along those lines and see how it sounds. The main problem i have with it is that, especially towards the end there, it lacks the big rhythm and sound that it should. I think that sort of beat, or a variation there of, would really help tie this together. Also, try adding some reverse cymbal crashes right before the big sections come in. ie, the intro and right before the 2:08 part. Also, right before that last orchestra hit would be an ideal place also. You can find some decent ones by searching for reverse cymbal crash sample on google.

As for whether or not it'll pass, you're only gonna find out one way man. Sub it and see! I think you've got a decent shot my man.

[DragnBreth]

The LoZ theme might be overdone, but that's cause its kickASS!!!

Agreed.

--

Alrighty, so, got an updated version up with what I think are the finishing touches for this mix. I -think- I'm ready to submit this. I will put that off, however, for a day or two, just in case someone catches something I might've missed.

I did take the suggestion about the concert drum, but only applied it to the near-end of the mix. I also tonned it down from the given example. I found the drum-beat to be a bit much (for the sound I was going for, anyway).

So, barring any unforseen problems, I hope this is the final version!

Enjoy!

[DragnBreth]

Alrighty! So I submitted the track yesterday.

Wish me luck.

AND

A big 'thank you' to everyone who helped (on and off the forums)! Much appreciated!

[ExtremeYoshiFan]

Nice, good luck with the judges, I hope this makes it, I really like it.

[DragnBreth]

Nice, good luck with the judges, I hope this makes it, I really like it.

Thanks!

[DragnBreth]

Soooooooo, after waiting 5 months and change, I've been given the "Nice try, but no" email regarding this remix. Sux, but thems tha breaks. This means I'm back to working on the track.

This is on the borderline of getting put on our panel. I could put it there, but I think everyone will give you same advice. The arrangement is pretty good but there are a couple sections in the middle where dissonance is definitely not working in your favor, intentional or not. The biggest problem is the sequencing. I can tell you put some effort into humanizing this but it still comes across as very mechanical, which hurts an orchestral piece the most. The marcato strings in particular sound very even. The transitions between notes are too quick, the attack is always instant. Adding some additional reverb would help too. Decent work, but needs to be taken to the next level.

So based on this feedback I've tried to, at least, start taking steps to reach said "next level." I'm still gonna need help, though, so any specific feedback I can get would be appreciated. Y'know, stuff that'll actually point me in the right direction. 'Cause as much as I appreciate the feedback I got in the email, phrases like "The marcato strings in particular sound very even" mean nothing to me. "Even" is bad? How so? I have a vague idea, but am not certain.

That being said, I do want to emphasize my appreciation for the feedback in the rejection email. Thanks.

[bain_nick]

For me personally, there didn't seem to be much change in how loud or soft the instruments were played. I grew up playing classical music on my alto sax, and one thing that was always droned into me, was to pay attention to the p's and f's on the music score (p for picolo meaning soft, f for forte meaning loud, and ff means you play as hard as possible). The last section where the song keeps repeating would have been a great time to put some build up in tone, but instead felt very samey (not to mention that there wasn't a huge difference in what was being played).

Hope that helps a bit.

[DragnBreth]

For me personally, there didn't seem to be much change in how loud or soft the instruments were played. I grew up playing classical music on my alto sax, and one thing that was always droned into me, was to pay attention to the p's and f's on the music score (p for picolo meaning soft, f for forte meaning loud, and ff means you play as hard as possible). The last section where the song keeps repeating would have been a great time to put some build up in tone, but instead felt very samey (not to mention that there wasn't a huge difference in what was being played).

Hope that helps a bit.

Yeah, thats somethin' I'm workin on, although I hadn't thought to do it in the last part, lol. Thanks