djpretzel Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Very fun arrangement. Samples not so fun. - djp Hey, This is a remix of the Black Omen track from CT I call "Woman in a Black Dress". I wrote it for the PRC#19 and Mythril Nazgul said we should all submit our entries, so here it is. I use an old school MIDI program called MIDI orchestrator, so it's a wonder I can keep up with all these kiddies and their high-falutin digital wonders. I'm Bladiator, aka Karl Harmdierks. (bladiator@juno.com) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Bladiator is in the process of doing some minor revisions on the mix, so I request that you please hold off for a day or three for Karl to do his thing. That doesn't necessarily mean that this will bring the mix into YES territory, but I gave him some suggestions to use since he wrote the mix for PRC19 which he'll be trying to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Are the revisions arrangement-centric or related to mastering and more importantly finding better samples, out of curiosity? From an arrangement perspective this seems pretty slick, but it falls into GM territory on the soundset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Are the revisions arrangement-centric or related to mastering and more importantly finding better samples, out of curiosity? From an arrangement perspective this seems pretty slick, but it falls into GM territory on the soundset... At this point, since the arrangement is definitely strong, he'll just be adding back the reverb for the alto sax and piano which was present in the PRC19 version in order to thicken the sound up. Nothing in the arrangement itself is gonna be altered, and I think we'll have to work with the sample quality he's got. Source: http://www.alpha-ii.com/snesmusic/spcsets/ct.rsn - "Black Dream" (ct-3-11.spc) (EDIT: I've had the revised version a couple of hours after I posted the above, so I'll be voting.) Pretty interesting how this mix and Mythril Nazgul's "The 6th Omen" built upon different sections of the same theme. Like djp alluded to, this is a great rearrangement with weak samples. Overall, I felt that bladiator managed to rise above the MIDI construction of this piece with some intelligent rearrangement that really builds well on the source material and gives it a whole new feel thanks to the salsa-y Latin overtones. I thought the velocities on the piano and sax needed to sound more humanized, but I know that Karl played those sections on a velocity-sensitive keyboard. Pretz pointed out to me that the weak samples here may very well have limited how well the velocities came off. djp also felt that the nature of the piano & horn fit well given the genre, and I honestly didn't have any real problem with the dynamics without that explanation. Note to anyone looking to bash us for sample-whoring, repeat after me: we're not sample-whores. But better samples would help manifest the dynamics input that's currently being obscured. The bassline is at just the right level where it capably accentuates the flow, fills up the sound in the back, and doesn't sound either overbearing or obscured. I really wanted to hear more variation in the shakers and bongos, though that seemed to fit fairly comfortably with the genre as well. The winds at 1:52 for the last iteration of the melody got somewhat shrill though not particularly piercing; nonetheless, those should have been pulled back a bit. The reverb really helped thicken the overall sound of this to help the samples not sound as dry and exposed, and made this a much easier decision for me than when it had been taken out in the earlier version. Pretty lively work, quality rearrangement, and rather more capable-sounding sample usage in comparison to, say, "Bottled Metro". Great job, Karl! I'm hoping you check out the ReMixing forum for some free soundfonts and various stuff along those lines. If you ever have time to replay the piano section of this mix on an actual piano (like you said you might), I'd be very interested in how it turns out. Meanwhile, very nice work considering what was at your disposal! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcos Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Wow, this arrangement is really good. Even though the sounds aren't all that great, they are squeezed to perform their best. If this guy invested in some better sounds it would really do a great deal. YES I was going to say that some of the sounds are dry, but after reading that he's working on that issue, the yes is without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protricity Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Alright, I have a pretty big problem with this remix. The original Black Dream is so faintly heard in it that I can't pass it. 1:16,1:46 is virtually the only section that is at all similar to the original. The rest is completely original, or mostly original. By mostly original, I mean it follows some of the same chords sparingly with completely original leads. The main chorus has some feint similarity to the beginning chorus of the original. Overall, someone who is intimately familiar will still be hard pressed to discern any black dream in this. Everyone else will simply not hear black dream at all. This is definately way too original, far more original even than Final Summoning, which is saying a lot. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 The structure of Black Dream's three intro vox notes from :00-:15 was referenced in the triplet-style piano notes & bass introing WiaBD into :12. The alto sax is obviously playing the source tune phrase ("Black Dream" :16-:35) from :13-:25, while rearranging until :35 before referencing the source a second time at :36 and hitting the same rearrangement style as the first iteration until :57. The piano melody in the forefront of Black Dream from :38-:48 is directly used by WiaBD's piano in the back from :52-:57. The remix's piano solo section starting from :57-1:15 / 1:21-1:42 sounds wholly original, though the notes at 1:16-1:20 are definitely like the string synth plucks from :05-:15 of Black Dream. WiaBD's sax at 1:42-1:46 references 1:00-1:05 of the source tune as well. 1:52-2:44 uses the same progressions from the beginning of WiaBD (:13) along with the same liberal arrangement phrases, but with the piano in the back once again playing Black Dream's :38-:48 section from 2:09-2:14. Sorry for any time references being confusing. The arrangement is very interpretive, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the level of originality of either "The Final Summoning" (original + stapled in game vox) or "Dreaming on Distant Shores" (overhaul of a 4-second melody as the foundation of the mix). Bladiator's original work fit very well with the style of the rearranged sections of the original he used (which are mostly from the first 48 seconds of the 1:19-long "Black Dream"), but having to listen to the source tune to confirm its usage (like I did, which is why I linked to it in my decision) may not speak well for the mix as being the most recognizable arrangement. While I realize that this is a liberal remix, I myself felt that the usage of Black Dream was both satisfactory & apparent and holds up to closer scrutiny. Bladiator's mix is more liberal of an arrangement than, say, TO & FIDGAF's recently passed Seiken Densetsu ReMix "Electrion" (which also built heavily on the first section of its source tune and basically ignored the rest), but I feel Woman in a Black Dress passes the arrangement test. If anyone else wants to reject the mix on being too original, that's fine, but I hear the original used in more places than Prot does so I'll leave that call up to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protricity Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 eh, I heard plenty that was of the same essense of black omen. Thats not really enough. Problem here is no one is going to recognize black omen in this song. If they know the original very well, they will hear a similar essense on a few notes here and there. If this doesn't cross the far-too-liberal line, then nothing else will either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vig Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 i agree with ari. the piano sequencing is strong, the arrangement is good, but it's not a remix. Call it an original and sell it for lots of $$ NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Wow so tricky; however, I'm inclined to agree with Prot and Vig here. I get such a major key vibe from this song, and the original is so clearly minor. And even though it's cool to go from minor to major and vice versa, this just comes off so much like an original song inspired by Black Dream than an actual arrangement of the song. The chords seemed to be altered, the melodic lines are changed, its just a different song with a few common threads. What a disappointment; such a nice track. I'm keeping this. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayLightning Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 As someone who loves and does very liberal arrangements, I have to say this is way beyond any bounds of an OC arrangement. It's too drastic a change. The chords and melody is just way too different, and difficult to follow. If even we in the panel have a hard time distinguishing it, then there's very little chance for the average listener. I found the style of this piece brilliant though. It reminds me of Mario Kart music. Production here is very average also. Cool piece, but too different for me. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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