Zelda - "For the Love of GANON!" heh heh heh!

[Chimpazilla]

And who doesn't love Ganon? I know I do. But what would it sound like if Ganon... (yikes...) prevailed???

"For the Love of Ganon"

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Briefly, the story for this song:

Intro - Link enters Ganon's castle and begins to ascend the spiral staircase. His heart beats louder and louder as he realizes this will be no easy fight!

Verse #1 - We meet Ganon. He begins to speak, giving his explanation of his evil plan, his hatred, his cursed sword and how he plans to blot out the light forever.

Verse #2 - Ganon is finished talking. Now he stands tall. He is evil, but man is he dignified. He paces slowly toward Link.

Break - Ganon now shows his full ugliness. He growls... unsheaths his blade. All seems lost...

Bridge - But wait... maybe there is hope! Maybe Link can take on this challenge! Maybe there are health hearts around, or a fairy in a pot! Maybe Ganon is not so bad after all!

Transition - The horror of Ganon's plan sinks in... this is going to be a bad fight... it is getting darker... Ganon laughs as the first lightning ball comes flying!

Verse #3 - Lightning everywhere! Ganon is laughing! His cape is flying in the wind! Link struggles to keep up the fight...

Finale - The fight is ending... Link is losing... Ganon's evil plan prevails... low heart warning... Ganon laughing... very sad...

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Constructive criticism is requested and appreciated!

Here are the sources for this song:

intro: Ganon Castle OoT

verses: Hyrule Castle LttP

break:

bridge:

transition: Hyrule Castle LttP (from 0:55 to 1:10)

ending: (four songs layered)

Hyrule Castle

(from 1:02 to 1:18 )

:

Special thanks to two dear friends:

Dubsteppy bass solo performed by Liam (itsclipping), thanks friend!

Dubsteppy drum pattern performed by David (anterroir). Thank you so very much for being my mentor, cheerleader, mixing coach/helper, advisor, and great friend!

[GravitySuitCollector]

Pretty good. I just have some things I think I might be able to point out.

- Maybe more than a bit too much source for the judges. They'd most likely complain more than a bit about that. You might take the time to listen and maybe find a good countermelody, or change up the original some. Just make sure to listen to it compared to the rest of the song, like the bass lines.

- The main bass throughout the piece sometimes seems to hold out unnaturally long. I don't know what else to say about it since I'm not an expert at all, but maybe someone else will have some advice to give on that. It does help support the song when it's in, but there could be a bit of variation in it. It gets boring after a while.

- The mid range feels a bit lacking all throughout the song, and it seems a bit too much in the high-end. For example, listen to this: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01577/ It sounds a lot "fuller," because it has a bit more mid range stuff in it. Try pulling up the middle of the EQ in your media player and listen to your song again; it does feel quite a bit different. The whole song doesn't need it, but it might help it from feeling too hollow at parts maybe. It'll also help it feel a bit more powerful at different times if you mess with the mixing some.

- Drums are one tone to me. Try changing some note volumes, for one. Drums aren't meant to be played at a single volume:

. Mess around with the different volumes so that you emphasize certain ones you might want to stick out a bit more.

You might also try changing up the drum pattern a bit. It gets repetitive somewhat, since it's in most of the song.

Well, I guess to sum it up: more variation, in note arrangement, volume and rhythm, and try messing with the mixing/EQ a bit. Someone else could better fill you in on this than me. Keep up the good work!

Edit: I guess I should also point out some things I liked. For example, I digged the sampling of the voices from Dark Beast Ganon in TP, and the song around 1:30 is good.

[Rockos]

I'm not on my headphone but I can tell you that it's empty at some place.

And as mentioned the notes of the bass seem long at some place.

3:54 get a little bit empty thereafter.

But I can tell you what I loved.

2:15-3:20 Empty place BUT the glitchy element of the drum were awesome. It cover a lot for the rest of the part.

AND THEN! :D :D

3:22 is the awesomeness. The drum get different. The time signature change a bit. BUT THE BASS IS GETTING Attention. That's what I like. All those variation and wobble and all that goes with it. That's what will keep me listening. The sfx at the end was a very good idea.

[Monobrow]

Okay listening.

I think the piano starts a bit too dry honestly, for the atmosphere. The organ as well. It doesn't feel big/epic enough. Overall I think the bass notes on the piano are very flat, you need to tweak them, let them resonate a bit. The organ, same thing. It feels that the intro chords are only being played by the right hand... Add some bass notes to that chord, make the organ sound fuller.

You then switch up to some Hyrule Castle. Very quirky. The piano writing is complex, but it gets lost easily. It's got that same flatness from the intro. Maybe some EQ in the mid-highs, and a different reverb room size setting could help?

Also I think honestly, this song suffers from, not the actual writing, but the sample choices. It's like this weird hybrid, organic/electro mix that's very unorthodox, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not hitting its mark.

For example, the writing for most of the song makes me think of a more atmospheric booming sound, but the drum kit is a quirky electro kit.

You have low-quality flutes and trumpets juxtapositioned with electronic background and faux violins that pitch bend way more than possible.

So here's my suggestion... Work on what you want this song to sound like. Get the samples/instruments to have a more similar vibe across the board, so they work with each other. If you go organic, go all the way, if you go more electronic, embrace it. This doesn't mean you can't have a mixture of both, but unfortunately in this mix, something needs to change either way.

I really do like what you're going for, but push yourself and don't be afraid to repick instruments/samples around themselves. Find something that you really like, like possibly that dubstep area, pick a couple instruments that really stand out as leads, and build your mix around them.

Good luck!

[Rozovian]

- Maybe more than a bit too much source for the judges. They'd most likely complain more than a bit about that.

As someone who's had a 100% source remix rejected for being too _liberal_ (and boring drums), I can safely say you're wrong. There's no such thing as too much source for ocr. It's about interpretation and personalization, your own arrangement of the source. Too little is too little, but you can't have too much. A mix can be too similar to the original, too conservative, too close to source. But there can't be too much source. Important detail.

-

As you mentioned in your pm, nobody's complained about the arrangement yet, so I can say something about that. I have to say that this feels a bit like a medley, but I don't think it's too much of that for ocr - it's an arrangement and it works imo. Just re-using sources in the end does a lot here.

While the Ganon part felt a bit too conservative for my liking, the first two minute go by well enough, followed by a 15 second break that seems completely arbitrary. Ganon's theme, Hyrule Castle, and the Dark World all have some nice writing and work well here. The only things that messes up the arrangement are the transition at 0:55 and the Beast Ganon part.

3:54 sounds like an ending. It may be a little long, but I think it works, it kind'a winds down from there.

Gonna echo the lack of mids. You'd think you need more bass and more treble for impact and clarity, but human ears are most sensitive to the mids so those are no less important.

I'm also gonna echo Monobrow's issue with the samples, altho I think much of it can be remedied by the right mixing and effects. The electronic drums seem weak (zircon's new drum tutorial might help you with that), the orchestral samples are very sample-y, and the piano sounds terrible in the intro (you should probably use a different piano for that part, one that sounds better on its own).

I'm most skeptical towards the orchestral elements, the rest of it seems like an easy fit. Dunno what you should do with the more orchestral parts tho. Take a copy, experiment.

So there's some thoughts for you. The production needs work, but I think this may have a decent shot at getting posted. It doesn't feel long or get dull, it doesn't seem like a random meandering thing nor feel repetitive, there's source and there's significant arrangement of the source. Learn the production.

[Chimpazilla]

Thank you so much Rozo, and everyone, for the helpful crits! Gonna work on the issues of adding some midrange instrumentation, and the drums. Will check out Zircon's tutorial on that.

Are there particular areas that need more midrange more than others? I know the Dark World bridge has been mentioned, anywhere else? What parts are OK as is?

Maybe I'll work the Beast Ganon break out completely. Will experiment.

I thought the piano sounded pretty good... clearly my ears are not well enough developed... could you describe the "terrible" for me? Give me that "aha" moment, please!

Can someone recommend orchestral samples that may work better? A piano you like? A flute that sounds real? I've used Miroslav Orchestral samples... are there better ones that don't cost thousands of dollars? Or, can you recommend specific treatments for specific instruments? I'd sure appreciate this specific advice, as I'm a little lost here... (or, a lot lost here) I want to try all I can with the samples, before resorting to (gulp) re-doing it with all synths...

I really REALLY want to make this song good. Thanks again.

[GravitySuitCollector]

As someone who's had a 100% source remix rejected for being too _liberal_ (and boring drums), I can safely say you're wrong. There's no such thing as too much source for ocr. It's about interpretation and personalization, your own arrangement of the source. Too little is too little, but you can't have too much. A mix can be too similar to the original, too conservative, too close to source. But there can't be too much source. Important detail.

Thanks for reprimanding me. It's just from what I've read through on the judge's comments, it seemed like this oftentimes was an issue, and I was thinking it might be an issue here. I obviously haven't really made anything and submitted it to OCR yet, so I'm sorry if my perception of things was somewhat wrong.

I found this stickied in the music comp/production section of the forums: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4556 Maybe you'll find something there, although the list of sites is a bit long, even in the first post....

Anyways, I look forward to hearing the next version of this. I think it sounded pretty good as it was when chimpazilla first posted it. I imagine, as Monobrow and Rozovian said, experimenting will help you out a bit.

[Rozovian]

I personally don't like the Miroslav piano, it's too long and indistinct, even with reverb off and release set to minimum. The main problem with the piano in the intro isn't reverb tho. It's how bright and artificial it ends up sounding. It sounds like you boosted stuff from 2kHz by 10dB or more, which makes it sound fake-y bright.

I did some playing around with it, and found a more piano-like tone:

- wide 4dB boost around 3kHz

- -6dB low shelf from around 250Hz

- the EQ curve should end up as something like this: _____--"""---

Can't promise it'll sit right in your mix, but it should be an improvement. The ideal could be somewhere in between your settings and mine (mine are just for the solo piano, not for a mix). If you still feel you need more menace in the piano, I would suggest layering something with it. Taiko, explosions, idunno. Just don't overdo it. Compression can also give some more impact to it, and if you compress both sounds together they'll kind'a blend together a little more. Something like 100ms attack and release, 2:1 or 3:1 ratio, and threshold set so it doesn't push the entire sound sound, just the beginning... is what I'd use.

There's other stuff in the intro worth working on, like how the piano notes end, and how separate each sound seems. Reverb, EQ and compression can help with that.

[Chimpazilla]

Thanks very much Rozo for those eq settings to try, I will certainly try that out. Also gonna experiment with some other piano vsti's. Somehow I will get that piano sounding good! And wow, what a cool idea, never heard of taiko but it looks amazing! Explosions... hhhmmm not sure about that! But definitely some more interest will be added to the intro (and throughout). Thanks for the cool suggestions!