Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 For every 1 female gamer there are 100 male gamers (more, most likely). It's simple statistics. If you're trying to sell a product, you're going to have to make a product that is going to appeal to your consumer base. you realize that the reason behind there being 1 female gamer there are 100 male gamers is because the medium is sexist, right? your argument here is based on the idea that videogames don't need to be designed with women in mind, because women don't play videogames, and I find it baffling that anyone would have to stop and explain why that exact train of thought is sexist Stop trying to read shit that isn't there, Bleck. hey man I'm not the guy trying to argue that he knows better than women about what is sexist towards women Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The question then should be "Why does sex sell?", which could then lead to "Is this really a problem?" among other questions and hypothesis.Either way, I'm thoroughly convinced that blaming the media is more than a bit naive. Since the gaming industry is more leaning towards the male end of the spectrum... Actually let me put it like this, what is bad about half naked female characters again; people never complain about porno, but when it comes to video games, people go nuts, even when a guy's shirt is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Taken to an absurd degree in where wearing higher tier armor results in less clothing! Wow, this is so obvious here it's hilarious even. Then again, it's still true that most players for games like that are, in fact, male. I don't even think less sexualized female characters would make it any more appealing to the female audience. That said, the role female characters usually had back in the early 90s, when I was a little girl, was a big part of the reason why I always tended to prefer male characters over female ones. They were usually damsels in distress and what not. Later on, when I matured, my preference for male characters didn't change, but then it became because I'd rather spend a whole game looking at a fairly attractive male protagonist. While overly sexualized female characters do gross me out, I've come to not really mind it, after all, like I said before, it's the game itself that attracts the players. A game having attractive male characters in a game is a plus for me, not why I play a game, and having these overly sexualized females won't ruin a great game. Now for strong female characters, I do agree with the one who mentioned Zelda, and another one that comes to mind is FFVI's Terra. PS: the third Samus reminds me of Ayla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Samus was actually becoming less sexualized over time until Zero Mission Nearly naked > more modest but still revealing > slightly less revealing and more buff And then in Prime there was only a helmet removal Closing with something I saw recently that I think is pretty fitting given the topic: After TWO Examples, All in favor of a topic change from "Sexism in Games" to "Portrayal of Blondes in Today's Mainstream Media" say I. "Meh". Lower Brain guys, Watch it. It might destroy who you think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid wind Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 but when it comes to video games, people go nuts, even when a guy's shirt is off. I've never heard anyone complain about that, it's never even made me feel awkward aside from that time Big Boss made me question my orientation but THAT'S COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC2151 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 people never complain about porno This is an interesting topic and one that I'll have to respond to more fully later, but that's all i have the time to say right now. EDIT ok one more thing: Samus in Fusion is my favorite depiction of Samus - mainly because the ending screens show her having the look of a confident, mature woman which is what she damn well should be by the time Fusion rolls around: (then again I am not a woman so perhaps I read these images the wrong way and they are actually incredibly sexist then whoops) And for what it's worth the Metroid Hunters version of the Zero Suit of all games is the only one that is bearable because it's the only non-hyper-sexualized depiction of the suit. Too bad that Hunters is one of the worst fucking games ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I've never heard anyone complain about that, it's never even made me feel awkward aside from that time Big Boss made me question my orientation but THAT'S COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT You would be amazed at how people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaon Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Sure, characters like Ivy are a bit exaggerated(especially in 4 maybe) "A bit"? Her breasts are bigger than her head. And the amount of fabric in her outfit wouldn't be enough for a mouse's shower curtain. but I feel that even then it adds to the persona of a powerful, provocative character that has no quarrel with maiming you in all sorts of nasty ways. Even if you want to argue that Ivy is supposed to be a provocative dominatrix character (despite the fact that she's CHASTE) it doesn't explain the bajillion other women dressed in bikinis with breasts bigger than their head. It's not empowering, it's not sensible character design, it's pandering to men. Other games with compelling female leads that I can think of off the top of my head? FF 6, 12, 13 to name a few. So what if they're attractive? That's part of what makes them so empowered! what The problem isn't "these characters are attractive", the problem is "every female character in any game has to be a supermodel." How many female warriors in games actually look like they could kick your ass? I'm sure there are a handful, but the vast majority have the exact same build; supple, lithe, shapely, but damned if we're going to give them muscles or anything, geez, that's just gross, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Actually let me put it like this, what is bad about half naked female characters again; people never complain about porno, but when it comes to video games, people go nuts, even when a guy's shirt is off. do I really have to explain why treating a medium that is not pornography like it is pornography is bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomba Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 another one that comes to mind is FFVI's Terra. Yeah, so about that: Maybe it wasn't quite the same in FFVI (didn't a sprite in FFVI get censored in the US?), but well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Is this a real problem? Like, is this a problem that is going to negatively affect our lives or the videogame industry at large, or are we just fishing for a new topic to discuss and create a problem of it? I'm not saying women don't deserve their due credit and equality in this medium, but last time I checked, most of our generation has bigger problems to worry about right now. We're all poor and deep in debt (or if not now, then we sure as shit will be), have no health insurance and have no idea when things will get better for us. We're either about to re-elect someone who was more of a celebrity than a President or a crazy, fucking GOP zombie and either way the divide between between the lower and upper classes is going to wider and finally swallow the middle classes whole and THIS is what we consider serious business? This is what we're spending our time trying to debate? Let me sum this up in something I read in EGM on the subject. "Women have boobs. Get over it." Let's get our priorities straight, shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 also, to all the people arguing about 'strong female characters'; that's not the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Is this a real problem? Like, is this a problem that is going to negatively affect our lives or the videogame industry at large, or are we just fishing for a new topic to discuss and create a problem of it? nothing makes someone feel smart like pretending a problem isn't a problem how about this; we'll keep talking about whatever the fuck, and you can pick whatever problem you think is most important and go talk about it somewhere else that way, you don't have to deal with people you clearly think you're above, and nobody else has to deal with the stench of your high horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid wind Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Even if you want to argue that Ivy is supposed to be a provocative dominatrix character (despite the fact that she's CHASTE) it doesn't explain the bajillion other women dressed in bikinis with breasts bigger than their head.It's not empowering, it's not sensible character design, it's pandering to men. I'm not even sure where this expectation comes from, maybe I'm unusual but I don't find that SCIV pic very attractive, the others are all much better IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not saying women don't deserve their due credit and equality in this medium, but last time I checked, most of our generation has bigger problems to worry about right now. We're all poor and deep in debt (or if not now, then we sure as shit will be), have no health insurance and have no idea when things will get better for us. We're either about to re-elect someone who was more of a celebrity than a President or a crazy, fucking GOP zombie and either way the divide between between the lower and upper classes is going to wider and finally swallow the middle classes whole and THIS is what we consider serious business? This is what we're spending our time trying to debate?Let me sum this up in something I read in EGM on the subject. "Women have boobs. Get over it." Meteo-X Fan for life. I'll go now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC2151 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Let's get our priorities straight, shall we? "Holy moly that question almost hit me that time!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I don't think neither me nor Bleck are arguing that there should never be attractive or sexualized female characters in videogames at all. The problem stems from the fact that sexualized female characters seem to make up the overwhelming majority by far! Yes, "It's a fantasy and escapism, so they can dress up in high heels and boobplate and still be effective in battle.", but it's almost exclusively a MALE fantasy, which is where the problem really lies. Is this a real problem? Like, is this a problem that is going to negatively affect our lives or the videogame industry at large, or are we just fishing for a new topic to discuss and create a problem of it?I'm not saying women don't deserve their due credit and equality in this medium, but last time I checked, most of our generation has bigger problems to worry about right now. We're all poor and deep in debt (or if not now, then we sure as shit will be), have no health insurance and have no idea when things will get better for us. We're either about to re-elect someone who was more of a celebrity than a President or a crazy, fucking GOP zombie and either way the divide between between the lower and upper classes is going to wider and finally swallow the middle classes whole and THIS is what we consider serious business? This is what we're spending our time trying to debate? Let me sum this up in something I read in EGM on the subject. "Women have boobs. Get over it." Let's get our priorities straight, shall we? I would like to remind you that we are on a forum about music and videogames, two things that ultimately have very little bearing on 'serious issues' like debts and health insurance. I don't think any of us are in a position to be cherrypicking topics that are worthy of discussion, because evidently this topic IS worth discussing with the amount of posts we're getting. If you want to talk about the presidential elections, you could go to PPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaon Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Is this a real problem? Like, is this a problem that is going to negatively affect our lives or the videogame industry at large, or are we just fishing for a new topic to discuss and create a problem of it? Shut up. Of course there are bigger problems. There will always be "a bigger problem". That does not make "smaller problems" unworthy of discussion. It's a video game forum. Of course we're going to talk about video games. All you're trying to do here is shut down this topic because it makes you uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah, so about that: Maybe it wasn't quite the same in FFVI (didn't a sprite in FFVI get censored in the US?), but well... Well yeah, it's different with sprites, but in all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with the picture. Her breasts aren't enormous and people do wear skirts and strapless tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not even sure where this expectation comes from, maybe I'm unusual but I don't find that SCIV pic very attractive, the others are all much better IMO a thread about whether or not overt and widespread sexualization that panders to men is sexist, and your valuable input is to point out whether or not you find something attractive I'm laughing so hard right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomba Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well yeah, it's different with sprites, but in all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with the picture. Her breasts aren't enormous and people do wear skirts and strapless tops. Honestly, that was mostly directed at the naked purple beast and the leotard, the other two images kind of came as a package deal and I was too lazy to edit them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Since no one has mentioned her, here is a prime example of a character design that's all about the looks. The other party members in FF7 have outfits that make sense for their jobs (even if the characters themselves don't). Cloud's got a warrior's attire, Barret's makes sense for a gunner... Hell, even Cid's works for a dragoon. But how does Tifa's teeny-tiny skirt and obnoxiously large boobs make sense for a monk? If anything, her boobs should be hitting people instead of her fist; at that size, they may just do more damage that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Honestly, that was mostly directed at the naked purple beast and the leotard, the other two images kind of came as a package deal and I was too lazy to edit them out. So there's a naked beast, who cares? it's a beast, and other than small breasts, it has nothing else that over sexualizes it to make it uncomfortable. This has more to do with ratings for nudity than it has to do with sexism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 One more thing. Most, if not All of the people arguing about this on this thread right now, are guys right? Just checking. Note the Competition and Conflict. Just please leave out the Drama. That's chick crap. Time to leave before I say something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That's chick crap. Time to leave before I say something stupid. a little too late there, bub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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