Omnisphere mixer faders set to 0.71db???

[Chimpazilla]

Hi all,

I just got Omnisphere and wow I love it! I've written a remix using it almost exclusively and it sounds amazing... but I noticed at the climax of the song (when everything is playing) there is some mild distortion/clipping. None of my metering indicates any visible problem (looked at every instrument and the master, nothing is clipping) so I looked into Omnisphere itself, and discovered that all the mixer faders (under multi) are set to 0.71db! I have right-clicked and "restored to default value" and that pops it back to 0.00... but as soon as I hit play in Fruity they pop back again to 0.71db. Does this happen to you (or is it just me)? Could this be causing my distortion problem (it sure seems like this is the problem)? How can I fix this? Sure I could lower the volumes of each channel pre-mixer in FL, but should I have to do that? Thanks for any advice on this. Or should I contact Spectrasonics?

[zircon]

No, the faders could be set to +20 dB and it wouldn't matter - internal processing within FL or its plugins won't cause clipping. Only output on the MASTER track can cause clipping/distortion. Your problems are coming from somewhere else.

[Chimpazilla]

Oh jeez... thanks Zircon... any suggestions on what else to look at? The distortion is very mild, but I hear it... I have no idea where to look. This has never happened before Omnisphere.

edit: I've soloed every single thing and it only happens when everything is playing.

[dannthr]

Omnisphere is multi-timbral and mixes down inside the software.

I find Omnisphere's default always too loud and I'm always turning it down.

Whether or not the distortion is coming from Omnisphere's mix down or some other place, you should be able to control the faders in Omnisphere without having them pop into an unwanted position.

It sounds like you have automation running in FL Studio.

[Chimpazilla]

Whether or not the distortion is coming from Omnisphere's mix down or some other place, you should be able to control the faders in Omnisphere without having them pop into an unwanted position.

It sounds like you have automation running in FL Studio.

The only automation I have in this song is some mild volume automation, and only to turn things down here and there, never up. Or... what kind of automation were you referring to? What kind of FL automation could cause 16 faders (2 instances of Omni) to be set to precisely 0.71db???

Also Omni's master volume fader is set to -0.24db and cannot be changed. I found a post on this where even the programmer could not explain this!

I'm baffled.

edit: my automations are using Fruity Balance in the last fx chain slot on the individual instruments... never a fader, in FL or especially not in Omni!

[HoboKa]

The only automation I have in this song is some mild volume automation, and only to turn things down here and there, never up. Or... what kind of automation were you referring to? What kind of FL automation could cause 16 faders (2 instances of Omni) to be set to precisely 0.71db???

Also Omni's master volume fader is set to -0.24db and cannot be changed. I found a post on this where even the programmer could not explain this!

I'm baffled.

edit: my automations are using Fruity Balance in the last fx chain slot on the individual instruments... never a fader, in FL or especially not in Omni!

This sounds like a problem that you'll need to address with the Omnisphere team. Make sure to give them your system specs and especially your soundcard =p

[Chimpazilla]

Thanks... emailed them... I'll post their reply when I get it.

[zircon]

Can you render some MP3s of this distortion? Does it happen even when Omnisphere is soloed?

[Chimpazilla]

Can you render some MP3s of this distortion? Does it happen even when Omnisphere is soloed?

So far from what I can tell, the distortion is not there in a render. Yes I realize this is a good thing. I need to listen more closely to make totally sure of this... but I'm pretty sure the problem is just in playback. It is definitely not a cpu max-out problem, I'm only getting to about 79% on this song.

As for soloing Omni... this song is nearly 100% Omni instruments (except for drums and TruePianos). This is why I thought maybe the large quantity of Omni instruments playing at once, with that 0.71db level, could be the issue. The problem only occurs when all instruments are playing.

[Rozovian]

First, consider my suggestions in this thread: to screw with Omnisphere's settings. Dunno how FL renders, but as the playback has problems while the render doesn't, it could just be that Omnisphere isn't keeping up when playing live, but can hog processor and memory to provide good renders.

If that doesn't help, use a level meter and a waveform monitor at each step of the effects chain. Do it live so you hear the distortion when it's there. If nothing else, you'll have eliminated Omnisphere and the effects as causes for this clipping.

It could also be something in FL's playback. iirc the playback can be different from the output. Someone that actually uses FL might know more about that.

[Chimpazilla]

Hey Rozo, yeah I looked at those settings... and decided not to mess with them. (either it says "only change this setting in very rare cases" or "after you change this setting you need to reload Omni" which I don't want to do since I've fine-tuned the timbres to my liking)

Spectrasonics guy was baffled too. He suggested simply turning down the master fader and I think I'll be trying this next.

Still not sure what I could have done to get the 0.71db levels across the board. When I load up a new project and an instance of Omni, the levels are at 0.00. What have I done?

Maybe I'll ask the question on the Image Line forum next.

Harumph. Thanks to all who chimed in to help!

[zircon]

If it's not happening on render I can almost assure you it's a problem with CPU or memory usage. Depending on your soundcard and drivers, you can have clicks, pops and stutters before you hit 100% on your CPU meter. I bet if you were to solo or remove some of the Omni tracks the distortion would go away. Likewise, I bet if you were to increase your buffer size quite a bit, it would help.

[Chimpazilla]

If it's not happening on playback I can almost assure you it's a problem with CPU or memory usage. Depending on your soundcard and drivers, you can have clicks, pops and stutters before you hit 100% on your CPU meter. I bet if you were to solo or remove some of the Omni tracks the distortion would go away. Likewise, I bet if you were to increase your buffer size quite a bit, it would help.

Zircon, did you mean "if it's not happening on render?" I believe it is only in the playback. I've never had this problem before Omni but Omni is a different beast in many ways. (and I love it!) (yeah, I've glitched out in other songs, but only in the 95-99% range)

I'm already using triple buffer, 30ms buffer length, and smart disable. I'll try increasing the buffer size. Thanks again.

[zircon]

Yes, I meant to say "on render". Omni does rely quite heavily on disk streaming in some cases, and if your computer/laptop/interface is having trouble with that then you will get problems with the sound.

[SnappleMan]

Whenever I have these types of issues it always comes back to the internal sound engine within the plugin. Nomatter how low the master fader in omni is, you want to make sure that each of the channels within it are low enough as not to clip, since you don't know how the plugin is designed and how the internal mixer is routed. So just turn down each patch by 6dB (within omnisphere) and see if you still get the distortion.

[SnappleMan]

Also if it's only on playback then I'd check to make sure that you don't have duplicate events controlling the plugin. Sometimes when I'm in a hurry and just start tracking MIDI I'll leave my input to "omni" (no relation to omnisphere) and record double events (MIDI in and USB in) or in rarer cases I'll record simultaneously in my DAW and on my workstation, so during playback the plugin plays a duplicate set right underneath the main set causing a 2X boost in volume and in turn, clipping/distortion. So yeah, try to move some notes around on the piano roll to see if there are duplicate notes underneath them, and also expand all your tracks in the main FL view to see if you have a second MIDI track that's also routed to omnisphere and making the notes double.

[Chimpazilla]

Whenever I have these types of issues it always comes back to the internal sound engine within the plugin. Nomatter how low the master fader in omni is, you want to make sure that each of the channels within it are low enough as not to clip, since you don't know how the plugin is designed and how the internal mixer is routed. So just turn down each patch by 6dB (within omnisphere) and see if you still get the distortion.

Thanks Snap, this is what I thought from the start (although Zircon begs to differ). My problem is that somehow (???) I have done something (???) to cause Omnisphere's 8 patches (16 actually, 2 instances) to be set to 0.71db and they will not change from those positions. If I slide the faders down, as soon as I hit play on my song, they pop back to 0.71db.

I am now going to resort to making an automation, using "multilink to controllers," to lower the faders all by 6db. The automation seems to work (meaning, I can get the faders to behave). Now I will work with this and make sure the clipping goes away. Hopefully my next post will be a "yippee, success!" report.

But darn it... how did this happen?????

edit: I made a short auto clip, one bar long, at the start of the song. It works, lowers the fader. But if I stop playback, back we go to 0.71db. When I hit play again, it stays at 0.71db. It will only go back to the auto clip value by restarting the song. So now I've made a full-length auto clip. Hitting stop/start on the song pops the fader back and forth from 0.71db to my auto clip value. SO... this does work... but it's f*&^%#@ WEIRD.

edit #2: I believe we have success. I can not hear any more clipping. *whew*

edit #3: It seems that adding the big automation clip has created a click at 0:03 in my song in the RENDER. Dammit. Trying again without it. Good lord!!!