AngelCityOutlaw Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I recall back in the days when the band "Dragonforce" was pretty popular, people often accused them of playing slower in the studio and then speeding the guitars up in the DAW. Now I'm not sure if that's true or not, and people I know who have seen the band live give me conflicting reports, but I really wouldn't be surprised if some professional recordings have done this. Another thing people always complain about in the world of pop music is auto tune. Big debate over auto tune...Hell, I know some people who absolutely refuse to use samples of any kind, drums include. I'm genuinely curious to know what everyone's opinions of such things are. Are you a purist who believes speeding up/slowing down tracks, pitch correcting etc. is absolute sin or do you believe that all is fair in love, war and the music studio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I am most certainly one for the analog tape, because it sounds so much more real. Though I love that analog sound, there's a lot of digital recorded stuff out there I love. I am not much for auto-tune, though I don't believe it's a bad thing to use it. I think if it's used as a tool to help your voice sound better pitch-wise, it's good. But when it comes to the point where producers are using it so heavily that the artist sounds like a robot, that's when I think it's gone too far. I love my dubstep, though. Though it most certainly is not my favorite genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I have a mixed opinion. If I'm writing a song for a band or something like that, I try to compose something that is actually playable live. It's sad when bands do some things beautifully on the studio and then can't replicate them on the stage. However, if I'm writing a remix or something I don't intend to play live, then I'll use some "tricks" like autotune if needed. Still, autotune sounds a bit weird when done wrong so I wouldn't use it much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There's such a spectrum in terms of the way these things are used. For example you mentioned speeding things up. Dragonforce pretty much speed up most of their songs, it's pretty easy to hear what that sounds like. Dream Theater for their last few albums (but most notably Systematic Chaos) have always liked to use small bpm changes between sections of their songs. So they record their songs at a basic bpm, and then the engineer sets up beat detective on the drums and xform elastic audio on everything else, and then they speed up and slow down certain sections slightly to make them sound more distinct. Both are using the same techniques, but one of them is using it for taste, and the other are arguable using it in place of being skillful enough to actual perform their music. There is a huge grey area between the two and you can't have one possibility without the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygecko Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 As long as they reach their intended vision, then so fucking what? If you're so concerned over the purity of instrumental talent, then you may as well dismiss pretty much all studio productions since the 1950's when it became feasible to edit recorded music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Orchestral recordings are also some of the most heavily edited instrumental performances out there. Especially soloists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederic Petitpas Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 If you make a "studio tune" and don't intent to perform it live, I don't think there's any rule... There's no limit. If you use some tricks to fulfill the idea you had, no matter what you do the results have a good chance to become interesting. If you compose for a live show tho, that's an other story. You must be able to play them integral or you're gonna end up looking like Dragoonfail. Why fake live when you can do less and have a better impact ? It's like Britney Spears when she "sings" live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 There is no such thing as cheating in music; only lying. Every time you re-record a take, you're already cheating; you wouldn't be able to do such a thing if you played live. So, if you have the opportunity to cheat; do so. However, you'd be lying if you sped up your guitar playing and used a taped recording and mimic the motions of playing really fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I don't know, maybe it's just me but I like hearing small mistakes in a recorded performance. When I hear something that's completely perfect it sounds off. I usually record anywhere between 5-30 takes of something to get the right feel (or to get it right because I usually tend to play beyond my abilities). If you have to speed something up then you cant really get a feel for it in real time so you'd probably end up screwing up the feel, and it will sound fake and awful. I can imagine people wanting to believe Dragonforce sped their shit up, but I don't really hear it, every case of sped up recording I've heard has sounded like pure crap. Unless they're doing 5-10bpm boosts which may sound decent then, but who cares about Dragonfoce anyway? Fucking awful band ruined a perfectly good Saturn game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Well, I, for one, do not condone masking the lack of musical talent through virtual studio edits if the artist is going to have to play live at some point. If the song or album is intentionally electronic, i.e. cannot be replicated using real instruments, then, that's fine. However, if there are real instruments mixed in with synthesized ones, I'd prefer the BPM to make it at least sound playable. As for autotune, I only like it if it's used tastefully. Fixing occasionally off notes is not okay, IMO, if it's noticeable. If you're going to perform vocals for your song, then either do as many takes as necessary or ask someone else with a fitting voice to perform for you. I'd much prefer it if autotune is not used. Vocoding is similar, but a more flexible alternative. Autotune is merely for correcting pitch, adding kind of fake-sounding harmonies, and possibly (but should not be for) for any timbre shifts between genders. Vocoding tunes the vocal part to a carrier, and is a staple of electro music. If vocoding is used tastefully to gel in a song for which it makes enough sense, then sure. However, the limitations and inferiority of autotune's algorithm to vocoding make it a turnoff for me most of the time. And about Dragonforce... well, to be honest, if they did truly speed up their guitars, wouldn't it be noticeable for raw recordings? If it wasn't, then they would have had to work with MIDIs and use some pretty freakin' good guitar VSTi's to get a natural tone and playable sequences after a BPM change. I might or might not be mistaken, but generally when changing the speed of audio clips, they tend to sound pretty obvious and bad. Anyways, that's my 1000 cents (typed from an iPad 2 keyboard, lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 No matter how good vocals are, I still place auto tune in the chain in case. no one in the world is a perfect pitch.(Ok I know im wrong maybe but seriously) Half the time you will never know if a song has auto tune or not(or the vocalist not synth instruments) because of how transparent it is used. For guitar songs I really like odd time riffs OR I like 80s/90s style songs with cool sounding riffs... I dont know why but I think they sound cool (or im very 80s and 90s O.o). For Guitar and House songs, I (Now very rarely) send a signal to a mixer to a tape deck, then record the tape back into my daw because it sound warmer and saturated kinda...I dont know why I do that but it sounds like how I would like it to sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 No matter how good vocals are, I still place auto tune in the chain in case. no one in the world is a perfect pitch.(Ok I know im wrong maybe but seriously)Half the time you will never know if a song has auto tune or not(or the vocalist not synth instruments) because of how transparent it is used. For guitar songs I really like odd time riffs OR I like 80s/90s style songs with cool sounding riffs... I dont know why but I think they sound cool (or im very 80s and 90s O.o). For Guitar and House songs, I (Now very rarely) send a signal to a mixer to a tape deck, then record the tape back into my daw because it sound warmer and saturated kinda...I dont know why I do that but it sounds like how I would like it to sound. As a friend of mine put it the other day, "Worry about your art, not your pride. If it sounds good, it sounds good." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederic Petitpas Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Hey that's exactly what I was thinking the other day. I'm not a real musician, I'm an artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 No matter how good vocals are, I still place auto tune in the chain in case. no one in the world is a perfect pitch.(Ok I know im wrong maybe but seriously)Half the time you will never know if a song has auto tune or not(or the vocalist not synth instruments) because of how transparent it is used. For guitar songs I really like odd time riffs OR I like 80s/90s style songs with cool sounding riffs... I dont know why but I think they sound cool (or im very 80s and 90s O.o). For Guitar and House songs, I (Now very rarely) send a signal to a mixer to a tape deck, then record the tape back into my daw because it sound warmer and saturated kinda...I dont know why I do that but it sounds like how I would like it to sound. I recently began using pitch correction on my voice because I was going for a more electronic/synth feel for my new record, and it should only be used as a tool, not an effect that apparently "makes your voice sound better". I use it to help my voice, rather than to make it sound completely digital, which I hate. Unless it's to give like a robotic feel or something, overdose of autotune is ridiculous to me. Again, I believe it should only be used as a tool, and in specific circumstances. My previous record had no autotune except for one song, I believe, and that was because my voice wasn't doing well on that song and it was sort of appropriate. Lots of the songs on the record had a more acoustic feel, and therefore I wanted everything to have a more natural sound. And by the way, I'm very 80s and 90s-ish. Especially the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 As a friend of mine put it the other day, "Worry about your art, not your pride. If it sounds good, it sounds good." This friend says the truth! unless it's unicorns, then sound like unicorns XD I recently began using pitch correction on my voice because I was going for a more electronic/synth feel for my new record, and it should only be used as a tool, not an effect that apparently "makes your voice sound better". I use it to help my voice, rather than to make it sound completely digital, which I hate. Unless it's to give like a robotic feel or something, overdose of autotune is ridiculous to me. Again, I believe it should only be used as a tool, and in specific circumstances. My previous record had no autotune except for one song, I believe, and that was because my voice wasn't doing well on that song and it was sort of appropriate. Lots of the songs on the record had a more acoustic feel, and therefore I wanted everything to have a more natural sound.And by the way, I'm very 80s and 90s-ish. Especially the 90s. Yup, all tools have a purpose and all tool can make or break an artist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 You kids sure do have some hangups about all this. Why not just practice till you can actually play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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