Orchestral Kraid's Lair

[Slimy]

Hello, I've recently made an account here so that I could get your opinions of my most remix.

The remix can be heard here: https://soundcloud.com/slimy-4/kraids-lair-second-remix

The original can be heard here:

I would appreciate any critique that you could give me, so that I can make this song sound as good as possible, and know what to expect in the future. Thank you in advance for listening!

[Argle]

I think your orchestration is very nice, it's the samples/mixing that is letting the piece down. Not sure if you can get a better mix out of what you have, or potentially try different sounds. Also, the cymbal/swells/tinkly chimes are too loud for my taste. Keep it up!

[Darkhemming]

Here are my thoughts from listening to it:

Opening is good

Very nice at 0:42, I like the strings

Perhaps a bit more contrast at 1:15ish, the instruments blend together a little too much for my liking. This is probably simply samples letting you down.

After listening for the fourth time I can hear what you're going for and while blending isn't so much of an issue it definitely seems like it's missing some strength.

Nice oboe at 1:44, I like the backing as well.

The section at 2:08 seems to lack punch for being what you built up to, but the section at 2:30ish is better in that regard.

Ending is pretty good, but fadeouts are a pet peeve of mine. It really sounds like it wants to finish on a low, mellow chord.

-

So far I love the orchestration and structure of the piece, Despite being 3 minutes it doesn't feel short and doesn't get repetitive, even after listening multiple times in a row. I agree with Argie about the mixing in places.

The samples are a mixed bag, your upper strings are passable, low brass is a bit lacking, the oboe is great, percussion is weak in general, flute is pretty good although maybe a bit heavy on the reverb.

Hopefully that's given you a bit of insight and been helpful. I will be following this one to see what you do with it

Edited June 16, 2013 by Darkhemming

[Necrox]

I liked the piece, although slightly better samples would make it better. I liked how percussion played a minimal role until the climax; it helped the song sound more orchestral. I don't hear about this tune getting many remixes, but I think it deserves more.

[Ethan Rex]

I agree with argle about the samples, that first instrument sounds very fake. When the flute comes in with the run up and down, it seems to lose time a bit, again I think due to the samples. Your lows sound a tad muddy due to wetness of the reverb I believe.

Some cool orchestration, but there are some production issues that pull this mix back.

[Slimy]

Perhaps a bit more contrast at 1:15ish, the instruments blend together a little too much for my liking. This is probably simply samples letting you down.

After listening for the fourth time I can hear what you're going for and while blending isn't so much of an issue it definitely seems like it's missing some strength.

Do you mean that the percussion is overpowering the strings? I noticed that this is especially a problem during the lower part.

Also, does anyone think the horn solo at the beginning would sound better an octave lower? Also, a horn trill might fit in at about 1:18, but I'm not sure if it would sound good with my samples.

Here's what I was able to make: https://soundcloud.com/slimy-4/test-brass-trills

Edited June 22, 2013 by Slimy

[timaeus222]

I don't know what samples you're using, but realism is a big problem here. You're trying to sound realistic, so humanization and good samples are a great idea. Maybe effective sequencing can let you get by sometimes, but other times you just need to use those special articulations well.

0:18 strings are not fake-sounding in terms of the samples used per se, but the articulations make it sound like the strings are falling behind. You need to give it a phrasing that makes sense, like someone is actually playing.

0:49 flute does sound like it's falling behind. Definitely because of the attack of the articulation(s) used.

1:16 is really suffering from weak samples. A stronger low string section would really improve the intensity level quite a bit. The reverb low cut is also killing the power. 1:40 isn't as powerful a break as you could have done had the cellos/double basses been a bit closer to the mic.

2:00 is oddly pretty good. Of course, it does have room for improvement, but here it's mainly the reverb that's the problem. Same with 2:31.

I highly recommend this badass for your cinematic inspiration.

[Slimy]

Uploaded an updated version here: https://soundcloud.com/slimy-4/kraids-lair-wip-updated

Thanks for the feedback!

I found that the problem with the strings is that the samples sound like they take about a 32nd note to fade in. After pushing them forward slightly they seems to be on the beat now. The flute doesn't seems to be behind now that the strings are in place, and I did take out most of the reverb in it. I took out most of the reverb from the low brass as well.

I also tried humanizing the horn solos at the beginning and end, and the oboe at 1:44.

I tried mixing it a bit, though mixing is very foreign to me.

[Darkhemming]

I love it, you've done a great job improving it!

I could only think of two things that could be improved this time:

1) The intro sounds very synthetic, until someone in the comments said it was a horn I presumed it was a synth. Not sure if this was intended or not, but it's something to look at

2) At 2:41 the horn gets just a little bit too loud and drowns out the rest of the orchestration, but only for a short time: it backs off nicely once that's done. It sounds like it's just that one note that's really loud.

Overall, a tremendous improvement from the original WIP. The tense bit in the middle feels like it belongs there and the build towards the end is balanced a lot better, which makes 2:10 significantly effective than previously. 2:58's greater drop in dynamics also helps towards leading to the final section and makes the fadeout a lot less jarring, which should hopefully be passable by the judges.

Someone else can probably pick holes in it, but that's my take. Good job with your work on it so far.

[timaeus222]

Sounds like an awesome improvement from before, and now it's basically just samples that are your problem. Unfortunately that's pretty much only solvable by spending money on a sample library. Rarely are dedicated orchestral songs believable with free samples or soundfonts.

This arrangement on its own would pass, but yeah, you'll need better samples to do this dedicated an orchestral remix.