MM & Bass: Cold Man + Darkwing Duck remix from WCRG compo

[ectogemia]

Here's a spicy tune I wrote for the WCRG compo. Links to the two sources are below. What do YOU PEOPLE think?

Edited July 31, 2013 by ectogemia

[ectogemia]

bumpf10char

[jnWake]

Hahaha wow those duck noises. They are funny but they drown out the music in some parts of the song

I'm not sure if it's the panning or something but the song feels very weak on the center. There's some emptiness that I can exactly explain.

In any case, I love the sound of the drums. Production is very clean. Also, the arrangement is very cool. It doesn't matter much outside of the competition but I had a terrible time trying to pick parts from Cold Man.

Nice song!

[timaeus222]

As I had said in my review earlier, 1:17 felt a bit disparate with the jump in dynamics as compared to the section before it. You had essentially a full soundscape, then just an organ for a bit, then back to full. It might just be the source having been shifted to the left, eliminating the first few seconds of source from that climax, that contributed to that. Aside from that, it sounds pretty good.

Edited August 4, 2013 by timaeus222

[ectogemia]

As I had said in my review earlier, 1:17 felt a bit disparate with the jump in dynamics as compared to tbe section before it. You had essentially a full soundscape, then just an organ for a bit, then back to full. It might just be the source having been shifted to the left, eliminating the first few seconds of source from that climax, that contributed to that. Aside from that, it sounds pretty good.

It was for effect. A light rendition of the melody for a bit followed by a heavier set of instruments finishing up the phrase is a pretty common technique to create impact through contrast. I'm guessing you're not a fan of that technique based on all your critiques, but I really like the contrast To each his own and stuff.

Thanks for the feedback, guize.

Edited August 3, 2013 by ectogemia

[timaeus222]

It was for effect. A light rendition of the melody for a bit followed by a heavier set of instruments finishing up the phrase is a pretty common technique to create impact through contrast. I'm guessing you're not a fan of that technique based on all your critiques, but I really like the contrast To each his own and stuff.

Thanks for the feedback, guize.

I get what it is you were aiming to do, and I do that kind of thing sometimes; the main reason for what I noticed was probably the bass sequencing right before 1:17. I had a suggestion for a neck slide on the bass right before 1:17, plus a reverse and regular cymbal. To me, that would have been all you would have to do to really nail that connection, preferentially.

[Radiowar]

yeah i gotta disagree with timaeus, this is all very tight. the trading fours between organ and ensemble is pretty unambiguous to me.

there are a couple potential issues that stand out to me though. im not sure how youre doing the scratching (im thinkin roughly 1:00-1:15), but youre essentially using it as part of the auxiliary percussion here (as opposed to something soloistic), so the repetitive technique begins to stick out. it seems like there is little to no fader involved, and the rhythms themselves are fairly repetitive. i would also suggest a hp filter on that stuff, as youve got a pretty dense texture goin on and at a certain point scratching is essentially rhythmic white noise.

one other little detail thing , at ~2:36 the cymbals and trumpet seem to clash. i would go with some brighter cymbals there ? (sounds like youre using a china) or maybe just a little filter.

[timaeus222]

yeah i gotta disagree with timaeus, this is all very tight. the trading fours between organ and ensemble is pretty unambiguous to me.

Of course you disagree with me, it's my opinion, mostly. A subjective suggestion with a hint of objective that would only have improved what was already there. Anyways, now a full review:

I don't think the record scratches were too thick in the frequency range, but they were used a tiny bit too often, and the repetition stands out, especially how it kept going at 0:38 at nearly the same volume on each usage. It kind of covered up the hi hats, being near their frequency range, but I had a hard time hearing the left-panned hi hats in general, actually.

IIRC, I thought you said the first 25 seconds were original. It actually sounds kind of like the Cold Man slap bass slowed down to me. That may be close enough to count as source usage.

The brass section, like I said, was pretty solid for the most part. At 1:23, though, it sounds like a mix of swing and no swing, which made it sound a bit off-tempo to me. The fourth note sounded like it came a bit early. At 1:33, I notice the cymbal is a little too quiet, but not by much. Maybe around 0.6~1.2dB. It just needs to be loud enough to be noticed right away, and I didn't notice it right away.

At 2:08, the harmon mute trumpet lead is fighting a bit with the organ and scratches in particular despite the thin nature of its frequencies, and it would help if you automated a scoop in the semi-low-mids of the organ and scratches to make room for the trumpet's lower end frequencies.

Overall, aside from the bass, I'm not actually noticing Cold Man very easily. Any usage that I'm not hearing here?

Edited August 4, 2013 by timaeus222

[ectogemia]

Of course you disagree with me, it's my opinion, mostly. A subjective suggestion with a hint of objective that would only have improved what was already there.

Maybe tone the abrasiveness down by like 99%.

IIRC, I thought you said the first 25 seconds were original. It actually sounds kind of like the Cold Man slap bass slowed down to me. That may be close enough to count as source usage.

It's original, so it can't count as source usage...

Overall, aside from the bass, I'm not actually noticing Cold Man very easily. Any usage that I'm not hearing here?

Yes, just about the whole tune. The Cold Man "part A" melody is used essentially verbatim rhythmically and melodically (with some added harmonies) via the distorted jazz organ both before the brass kicks in and once the muted trumpet takes over. The entire outro is a reharmonization of the verbatim Cold Man "part B" melody as played by the muted trumpet.

there are a couple potential issues that stand out to me though. im not sure how youre doing the scratching (im thinkin roughly 1:00-1:15), but youre essentially using it as part of the auxiliary percussion here (as opposed to something soloistic), so the repetitive technique begins to stick out. it seems like there is little to no fader involved, and the rhythms themselves are fairly repetitive. i would also suggest a hp filter on that stuff, as youve got a pretty dense texture goin on and at a certain point scratching is essentially rhythmic white noise.

It's high passed, but maaaybe not enough. Pretty much everything I did in this remix was experimental for me, and yeah, I couldn't seem to get the scratches to sit quite right. They do sound a little too thick now that you mention it. As for how I wrote the scratches, I just cut up and repitched and rearranged a bunch of random scratch samples I have. It was a good idea, but I quickly ran out of samples compatible with the song, hence why the scratch patterns get boring. Also, percussion isn't my strong suit

one other little detail thing , at ~2:36 the cymbals and trumpet seem to clash. i would go with some brighter cymbals there ? (sounds like youre using a china) or maybe just a little filter.

You're saying I should low pass the trumpet slightly to let the splashy cymbal come through?

Edited August 4, 2013 by ectogemia

[timaeus222]

Maybe tone the abrasiveness down by like 99%.

I'm sorry if I came off harsh, but that's how it goes sometimes. Just assume that I'm not trying to be mean, because if I was, I'd be a pretty terrible person. I definitely mean well. Opinions are bound to be disagreed with, so it's not unusual that Radiowar disagreed with me, and that's what I emphasized.

Yes, just about the whole tune. The Cold Man "part A" melody is used essentially verbatim rhythmically and melodically (with some added harmonies) via the distorted jazz organ both before the brass kicks in and once the muted trumpet takes over. The entire outro is a reharmonization of the verbatim Cold Man "part B" melody as played by the muted trumpet.

Oh, okay. I guess since the organ was panning rather heavily and playing the melody, it was a bit harder for me than for you to hear it. Paying more attention to the organ, yeah, I can hear Cold Man now. It just took a little side-by-side comparison.

It's high passed, but maaaybe not enough. Pretty much everything I did in this remix was experimental for me, and yeah, I couldn't seem to get the scratches to sit quite right. They do sound a little too thick now that you mention it. As for how I wrote the scratches, I just cut up and repitched and rearranged a bunch of random scratch samples I have. It was a good idea, but I quickly ran out of samples compatible with the song, hence why the scratch patterns get boring. Also, percussion isn't my strong suit

Hm. I actually thought you used the Fruity Scratcher, to be honest, but I gotta say, that's some good use of your samples.

You're saying I should low pass the trumpet slightly to let the splashy cymbal come through?

I'm thinking he meant high pass the lower frequencies of the cymbal? China samples happen to usually have not much above 16000Hz, I believe, from samples I've encountered.

To clarify what I said, try scooping the frequencies of instruments that lie near the frequency range of the trumpet's semi-low-mids range (between low mids and mids) via automation on the EQ tokens/bands while the trumpet is currently playing, and then automate them back to where they were when the trumpet is not playing. If you're wondering where I get that (ridiculously detail oriented) idea that I actually do keep in mind,

. Edited August 4, 2013 by timaeus222

[ectogemia]

I'm actually saying to scoop the frequencies of instruments that lie near....

I followed what you were saying. I was asking Alex about what he meant

[timaeus222]

I followed what you were saying. I was asking Alex about what he meant

Yeah, I realized that, then went back and edited my post. xD

EDIT: At 0:50-0:57, the organ was hard to hear once I tried to hear it just now, so it's a little buried under the scratches. I could hear the higher frequencies, but not the individual notes. Something I consider when mixing is, "can someone with enough skill and the same materials as me recompose the track note-for-note with the exact stereo image and instruments?". Of course, that's not a rigidly structured "absolute rule", but it's generally a good guideline I like to follow.

Edited August 4, 2013 by timaeus222

[Radiowar]

It's high passed, but maaaybe not enough. Pretty much everything I did in this remix was experimental for me, and yeah, I couldn't seem to get the scratches to sit quite right. They do sound a little too thick now that you mention it. As for how I wrote the scratches, I just cut up and repitched and rearranged a bunch of random scratch samples I have. It was a good idea, but I quickly ran out of samples compatible with the song, hence why the scratch patterns get boring. Also, percussion isn't my strong suit

fair enough. i thought the scratching sounded a little stock-sample-y to me - not that its a bad way to go about it, stitching together samples like that. but yeah generally speaking you wanna filter quite the hell out of that kinda stuff. even if its just something like the

, you only really need the very high end of the sound for it to register.

i guess you could try to look around youtube for some cool scratch routines/tutorials to grab some rhythms from?

You're saying I should low pass the trumpet slightly to let the splashy cymbal come through?

on my first few listens the cymbals came across to me as oddly washy and low-pitched, and that they were eating up the trumpet register. i mean, as a whole this track makes really great use of "fakey" sounds, but that was the one point where i felt like i got taken out of it. im not sure that the solution is necessarily filtering the trumpets or the cymbals, but the cymbals do sound particularly raw there, if that makes any sense. it's a super small nitpick in any case

[Rozovian]

Bumping this so it doesn't disappear without a mod review, if you still want it. Two sources, long track, no big obvious problems... Sounds great, but I'm sure we can find things wrong with it.