Liontamer Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Remixer name: Jake Rose Name of game arranged: Shadowgate (NES) Name of arrangement: "The Sword Is In Hand" Name of song arranged: unknown, track 13 from nsf file ------------------------------------------ Edited December 16, 2013 by Liontamer closed decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 Ah, a source tune that's unused from the game. Just in case anyone is inclined to dismiss this arrangement too quickly as a hot mess, do compare it closely to the source, which repeats the melody ad nauseum (despite not being very melodious) and has that upward-moving bass-like backing pattern (full loop of the source finishes at :25). it might not be your cup of tea, but let this one marinate for a few listens, especially since it's brief. Given the source tune, the arrangement's dissonant and unmelodious by design; what's potentially being argued is how well the piece is designed. Interesting opening with the steel drum (kind of flimsy, but a cool sound choice) and the hand percussion. The strings at :09 were super wet, but it was an interesting approach. However, I'm not sure the backing sustained strings sounded quite right, or the mixing of everything once things picked up at :35 since the leads were obscured by everything else until 1:02. The dissonance throughout the added writing until 1:02 may have been purposeful, but it still didn't click. The way the backing writing steps up in the source tune (and it's volume relative to the lead) is much more subtle than the sustained strings here, so the arrangement version sounds super dissonant. Yeah, that opening string (arguably) part repeated too much until 1:02. I realize the source is like that, but I'm not seeing how that works when trying to construct a standalone piece. That said, the original writing from 1:02-on (with woodwind, string, and percussion source usage to accent it from 1:15-on) was pretty smart. Anyway, the whole soundscape was just oddly mixed, with different things either sounded too distant, too sparse, or too muddy and too imbalanced. I know 1:46-2:16 was meant to sound eerie, but it ended up being too muddy, obscuring the source tune a lot, the same as :35-1:02. I like the concept here; this gives a more sinister almost Castlevania-esque spin on the source, I just felt the dissonance and muddiness from :35-1:02 and 1:46-2:16 were both a bit much. I may seem like the bad guy because these both seem to be purposeful decisions, but to this extent, I think both aspects being toned down would make the piece more cohesive. The mixing was the more important of the two; even though the surrounding writing was meant to convey chaos, if that were improved so that the leads weren't buried AS much, I could potentially get behind this piece and its dissonance. It's actually more substantial and developed than I initially gave it credit for, and it would throw people for a loop. Good Halloween/scary setting stuff. Again, given how it sounds, it's easy to overlook what's actually working with this piece. I'd say adjust the mixing to not be swampy for half the piece, and perhaps lessen the dissonance, but we'll also see how the others feel. Good work so far, Jake. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAvenger Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I disagree with Larry on the arrangement. I think everything presented was very smartly written with good direction, and the dissonance works very well with the source. My only qualm is the ending feels a bit lackluster compared to the rest. I agree with the Lion that this is coming down to the production. The strings at the beginning are running over each other in what sounds like should be more of a staccato run, and the end half does feel a bit too cluttered/muddy. Would love to see you clean this up though, definitely a lot of great ideas here and a great take on a not-so-stellar source! NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I agree the main issues here are production, a lot of the elements sound like they were recorded in different rooms, so while some are really wet with reverb, some are super dry and up front. It is making it hard to piece together the already difficult source. I also feel that the running time was a bit on the short side. The source itself isn't super long, but 2 minutes and change isn't really giving me enough time to really get a feel for expansion of the theme. No, please resubmit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 I disagree with Larry on the arrangement. I think everything presented was very smartly written with good direction, and the dissonance works very well with the source. I should clarify, I don't think the level of dissonance fully clicks in this piece. I should have said the word "fully," but it's definitely not a case of "not at all." Like I said more towards the end of my comments, I completely get where that idea's coming from, I just think it's a bit much given the way the dissonance sustains so prominently, as opposed to the original where it's much more subdued. There's (arguably) a happy medium as far as how loudly to mix that part, or at least introduce the line more softly and then gradually raise the levels on it and make it more foreboding that way. I'll disagree with OA in that I think 2 1/2 was an OK length. I see how one could want some more time to it, but I thought it was developed reasonably enough, at least enough to not hold it back from posting it on that level. Jake, if you can tighten up the mixing on this, and/or consider some of the arrangement critiques that you end up agreeing with, I think this could get posted in some form. Don't drop this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I absolutely love this source tune with it's 7/4 timing. The remix is really interesting and creepy, perfect for an overture to some epic tragic opera or a really exciting scene in a horror movie! The combination of time signatures layered over one another creates a massive amount of dissonance right away. I get what you're trying to do, and I actually love the concept, but I think you have to be careful with this and really make sure that the composition still makes sense, and for me the writing is a bit too chaotic. I am learning about orchestral mixing myself right now, and what I've learned is that the orchestra is meant to sound like a "homogenous wall of sound" with the instruments working together for the most part, while some instruments do interesting things here and there. Strings in particular are meant to really be cohesive most of the time. If you think about it, in an orchestra, no one is running up to a mic in the front to do a solo and then returning to their seat! It is already tricky to mix orchestral instruments properly, even from the same library, as the samples often come with tons of reverb baked in. In this case, I am hearing samples that have come from different libraries and some of them sound much more upfront than others, and that detracts from the overall cohesion of the piece. The writing has so much dissonance, which I believe is intentional, but I feel like a little more writing cohesion between the strings and brass would compliment the chaos just enough without the piece feeling so unstructured. The breakdown with the flute however, is absolutely lovely. I like the bongos and white noise sweeps actually, but they feel a little tacked on and up-front, and could be blended in a bit better with the soundscape and be more subtle, since they aren't really inherent in an actual orchestra. Overall, awesome and bold ideas here, the execution just needs a little improvement. I do hope to hear this one again though! NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexstyle Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I took a while to actually get this review together, as my brain and the source you picked simply don’t work together very well. That said, I think I can give a few pieces of advice here. My first crit would be that the percussion is a bit mechanical, and very obviously sequenced. It’s a bit too “pattern-y,” if that makes sense. The timpani sounds a bit too busy to me to really work, and I’m a bit concerned about sticking the bongo loop into what’s trying to be a purely orchestral mix. If you were to give this more of an electronic edge, I’m not sure that would be as much of an issue. My second crit is that you definitely need to clean up the strings. A real violin doesn’t tail off at the end of every single bow swipe—it needs to cut off as soon as the next note hits. Thirdly, I’m noticing that there’s a bit of overcompression showing, since everything’s kinda getting a bit crowded in that upper midrange. Not sure if it’s the fact that your string samples are a bit underutilized (too much release on each note), or what. If you were to back off the amount of instruments playing in the same spectrum at the same time, you might be a bit better off. Finally (and this one is more personal taste), I think this arrangement would benefit from a stronger bass presence. This could be a stronger, deeper string part, or maybe just giving the timpani hits some more “oomph.” Overall, I think I see what you’re trying to get at here, with that building tension powered by those string risers ‘n such. It reminds me of a film score piece for a psychological thriller or something, so there’s definitely a place for it--even the abrupt cutoff works for that kind of application. However, it needs some sample cleanup and a bit of production polish (and perhaps some more electronic flavors to go with the more "looped" elements) to be quite over the bar. Hope to see it again soon! NO (Resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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