Eino Keskitalo Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Well, I liked the guitar idea but it doesn't seem I'm picking up the guitar in a while, so I started with the EQ (and stereo!) fixes, plus a couple of other tweaks.. I think this is better: Final Candidate 3 ---- Newer: Final Candidate 2 Tiny update, such as doubling one lead with the organ. Mod review time! ---- New: Final Candidate 1 ----- Here's a kind of a shoegazing/post-rock take on from Cave Story (with references to at 2:11-2:26 & at 2:26-2:42). This debuted on the People's Remix Compo round 250 and I've since worked on the leads, bringing them up in the mix & layering them with some Commodore 64 sounds. Edited February 17, 2015 by evktalo nah, it's still a wip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Quick changes with the same link: bit of levels & stereo separation on the leads and a little reverb tweaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 This is a hard one to mix. The harmonics in the guitar sound pretty piercing when played so often. :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Thanks! I'll take a look. I figured the lead would be more piercing though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Naw, I think the lead is alright so far. Also, now that I listen more closely, at 2:58, the rhythm guitar is really loud all the way to the end of the piece. It might be because it's playing full strums instead of mutes, so the upper mids frequencies are more present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yup. I added a compressor because of that, but I guess I'll just automate the volume (edit: or indeed, EQ) for that. It's ok it raises up the volume a bit, but it shouldn't be detrimental. Thanks for pointing that out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Final Candidate 1 Looks like I had only compressed one of the guitar tracks. Apart from that, some drum tweaks and overall mixing changes. I think this could very well be done. Edited September 10, 2014 by evktalo fix link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Final Candidate 2 Tiny update, such as doubling one lead with the organ. Mod review time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Ok, so Cave Story is a game I've heard mentioned a lot and still have no idea what it is. Anyway, let's dive right in. From a source usage POV, I can spot the source even though your version is slowed down a lot. No worries there. As for as production goes, everything sounds generally ok with a couple exceptions. No mud obscuring the low-end, and fairly easy to make out the parts. A nice blend of live guitars with more electronic textures, and things generally sound clean and easy to hear. However, I almost feel that the bitcrushed drums are too loud and obscuring the underlying acoustic-sounding drums. Try changing the balance and see how that sounds? Up the main drums 3 dB and drop the bitcrushed ones 3 dB for a starting point. My primary gripe with this track is the distorted square lead that starts at 0:34. I dunno, it nags at me for a number of reasons. For starters it sounds kinda wobbly and seasick. It sounds like you were attempting to make a guitar lead but are left with an obviously square wave with distortion. It seems to dominate the stereo field too much as well, and kinda overlays the backing instruments with its nasal tone. My suggestion would be, a real guitar lead playing the part would sound fantastic and very much in keeping with the other live guitar. Could be drenched in FX and would sound pretty sweet. But if you don't want to do that, try bringing in the stereo width and EQing some of that nasally quality. Add some more reverb as well? Try to get it play more nicely with the other instruments. From an arrangement standpoint the backing track at 2:14 seems to mainly be a retread of 0:34, with mostly the same instrumentation and parts. I do hear melodic variation in your leads, but the judges might bring this up. I like the wobbly ending chord, but the ending does sounds like you abruptly gave up rather than winding the energy down. The Js would likely mention that as well. Overall I feel the issues to work on are preventing the main square lead and bitcrushed percussion from dominating the other instruments, and perhaps trying something new in the 2nd half of the track. And IMO change that square lead to something more natural and pleasing, like a guitar. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) My primary gripe with this track is the distorted square lead that starts at 0:34. I dunno, it nags at me for a number of reasons. For starters it sounds kinda wobbly and seasick. It sounds like you were attempting to make a guitar lead but are left with an obviously square wave with distortion. It seems to dominate the stereo field too much as well, and kinda overlays the backing instruments with its nasal tone.My suggestion would be, a real guitar lead playing the part would sound fantastic and very much in keeping with the other live guitar. Could be drenched in FX and would sound pretty sweet. But if you don't want to do that, try bringing in the stereo width and EQing some of that nasally quality. Add some more reverb as well? Try to get it play more nicely with the other instruments. From an arrangement standpoint the backing track at 2:14 seems to mainly be a retread of 0:34, with mostly the same instrumentation and parts. I do hear melodic variation in your leads, but the judges might bring this up. I like the wobbly ending chord, but the ending does sounds like you abruptly gave up rather than winding the energy down. The Js would likely mention that as well. Yeah, I agree, so I also maintain my take on that guitar-harmonic-like lead at 0:34 to be too overloaded with certain harmonics lying in the midrange that ultimately make it sound pretty harsh/piercing. Edited September 26, 2014 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 I'll tell you, I didn't like the idea of taking this back to the shop, especially the effort to work up some guitar, but quickly I started to like the idea more & more, and the FX'ing idea I like (and shows you also "get" this piece). I have a plan to alternate guitar with synth leads. So yeaaah, I'm going to spend some more time on this. And yeah, the guitar-like lead (yup it's a square wave, through amp sim) needs some EQ massage, I can hear that now. So thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Well, I liked the guitar idea but it doesn't seem I'm picking up the guitar in a while, so I started with the EQ (and stereo!) fixes, plus a couple of other tweaks.. I think this is better: Final Candidate 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-wix Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hey there, I'd be happy to give you a review. I have a lot of experience with Cave Story from the Cave Story Remix Project (http://kwixmusic.com/cavestory/) and the 3DS/Steam port of the game! - The intro is very promising. Guitar sounds solid, drums are great! The odd synth bits that hit through the intro are a bit on the loud side, and conflict with the gentleness of that guitar, but I can see what your going for and it works! Cute synth sound! - Now as things develop you let that synth start wobbling all over the track, it essentially takes over as a lead and central focus of the track. Some parts work pretty well, some parts not so much! The synth is just plain loud and grating. Try toning the volume down a few ticks. You have a few times where multiple synths play at the same time and the guitar, drums, and bassline just all get destroyed by the power of that synth. It's a cool sound and I dig it - but pull it back! Give it a place, but as it stands I feel like its detracting from the rest of the instruments! - More on that point, your drums and bass are incredibly static throughout! There is a break that happens towards the mid/later half of the track where the leads take a break and i can finally breath a bit! about 2 minutes in - awesome job there! Try mixing up your drums/bass a bit more. Listening to the lead like that can get tiring after awhile. chill out a bit - The bass change @ 3 minutes in is really bad - I'd suggest removing it entirely. Infact, I'd suggest making this a bit shorter! It would be to its benefit - it gets a bit boring towards the end and there isn't much going on compositionally - just the same stuff that was playing in the beginning, and by 2:30-3 minutes in, you've already given the listener that same experience several times over - The ending is a nice resolve chord, but doesn't really build much into it, so it feels rushed and sudden. Try putting in some signals that the ending is coming, play with it and find something that sounds good to you. - Lastly, you have a lot of unique and conflicting sounds in this track. The smooth gentle guitar, those classic-sounding drums, then the loud grating chippy synth leads. Having a unique spectrum of sound is cool and can add a lot of diversity/originality to your track, but it can also be a double edged sword when certain sounds grate on the ears. Spend a lot of time playing with your sounds to make sure you have the sound your looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Thanks k-wix! The Cave Story Remix Project was one of the pre-OCR remix things for me and there's a couple of really good ones in there. I didn't realize you worked on the 3DS/etc version, it's my soundtrack of choice for Cave Story+ actually. Thanks for the detailed feedback & walkthrough, it is really appreciated. I also got other feedback just now and it's clear to me what I'm trying to do with the piece isn't quite happening - I'm just hearing it in there! The staticness is an attempt at a kraut-rock style "monotonic bliss" that keeps things quite reined in and simple (but driving) until building into a cathartic climax/pay-off (usually). Except that the moment the bass finally variates, and the ending, aren't working as I imagine they are.. (one thing that is lacking is the organic band playing from krautrock, where subtle interplay and dynamics are happening all the time despite playing the same thing over and over). And the lead, yeah I can hear now that it needs at least one more pass at reining it in. Very well described in your feedback! I may alternate it with some other sound too some more so it doesn't play all the time. - More on that point, your drums and bass are incredibly static throughout! There is a break that happens towards the mid/later half of the track where the leads take a break and i can finally breath a bit! about 2 minutes in - awesome job there! Try mixing up your drums/bass a bit more. Listening to the lead like that can get tiring after awhile. chill out a bit Do you mean it's good that it stays static up to that point? I'd like to think yeah, it works up to that point but after the break it gets repetitive. - The bass change @ 3 minutes in is really bad - I'd suggest removing it entirely. How do you mean bad? Compositionally? In sound? Structure-wise? I would really like to make this part of the piece to work, though if it won't that's ok, I can drop it. So I was thinking of trying dropping the drums and building the beat up again after the break and at the start of the outro, to make it build up to first the bass change, and then to the final chord. Or in some other ways signal those changes. I might well shorten the piece too if it comes to that. Thanks once again, this does require & deserve a bit more work.. (and a bit of killing darlings) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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