FFVII: Wall Market

[DjATIO]

Here's a link to my Wall Market remix. I recorded all the guitar parts using guitar rig 5.

Lemme know what 'yall think!

https://soundcloud.com/anthony-higham/wall-market-ffvii

[Necrox]

It has an upbeat feel, which is weird because the original is a bit downtrodden. If that's your intention, fine, but if not, then that's the main thing that stood out. It feels a bit bare bones as well, maybe add some more subtle parts that change often?

[DjATIO]

Thanks, necrox. It is still pretty bones, and I will consider adding maybe some subtle variation. I think the tempo is close if not the same as the original song. perhaps the song seems a little more andante (for lack of a better word) on the game because it has less going on rhythmically. I will have to look into that more, but thanks again for your insight.

[Tonalysis]

A fun tune that you've spiced up a bit. I like it!

A couple of things I noticed:

1) When the snare is exposed at the beginning, the heavy reverb is very noticeable and sounds a bit odd to me. Once the other parts come in, though, it doesn't bother me, so maybe the heavy reverb was your intent.

2) I really like the heavy-vibrato lead sound around 1:10.

3) Since you're playing the lead on guitar for much of the song, I think you have a great opportunity for embellishment. For example, maybe around 2:20, you could play a melodic solo based on the original melody line? Just some food for thought.

4) You probably already noticed this, but there's some serious line noise at the end that you'll need to clean up.

Overall, I like the arrangement. Thanks for sharing it!

[timaeus222]

The reverb in the snare in the beginning is the reverb it has the whole way through, right? It has too much midrange reflection. I can tell the decay time was intended, but the midrange reverberations get lost later on. If at all possible, the midrange reflections should be reduced; if you can't hear the characteristic parts of the reverb later on, they're just mudding up the mix (like at 1:05).

I think the main bass is a little loud. Just volume, most noticeably, by about 0.6 dB. The kick, for me, has a little bit too much bass. Not by much, just a little, below 100 Hz.

Most importantly though, there is a lot of cut and paste. 0:09 - 0:44 is basically identical to 0:44 - 1:27, 1:27 - 2:09, and 2:09 - 2:51. I really only hear very minor new things, and they don't change much at all; mainly I just hear lead swaps. The drums don't even change significantly between those four instances.

The vibe works, the swing/reggae-like 12/8(?) feel sounds intentional, and the overall mood has potential for expansion; it just needs that expansion, variation, and just more interpretation across the board. Cutting and pasting temporarily is fine, but just doing that with 40-something seconds and calling it a remix is like looping a 1-minute VGM track a few times and calling it a full song. I think you can pump more effort into this!

Edited December 31, 2014 by timaeus222

[jnWake]

I like the mood of this remix! I like the rhytm of the drums. I do agree with timaeus that they're lacking a lot of variation (they're almost a carbon copy of the original). You use a hi-hat, kick and snare for the whole song. Nothing else. Try adding more variations to the percussions.

Leads are often pretty good. Synths in particular are great (volume is a bit odd at 0:10 though). Some guitar lines didn't convince me much though, like the one at 0:37, it feels you could do more with that melody.

Reverb is a bit exaggerated in some instruments. I dig the heavy reverb snare in the intro but you should dial it down later. Same goes for the synth hits you use during most of the remix.

Overall, I like the mood you're going for but I feel you could add more to it! Change up the leads, change up the percussions. Maybe write some variations of the original theme, since it feels very derivative as it is now.

Edited January 2, 2015 by jnWake

[DjATIO]

Thank you ALL for your valuable critiques. I have been working hard at implementing all of the advice given. I altered the melody a bit, but mainly to address dissonance due to some re-harmonization in the chord structure. I also subbed the drums to a full kit rather than just a kick snare and hi-hat, and added rhythmic variations/fills (not as much copy paste). I EQ'd the re-verb bus so that it didn't have so much mid-range harmonics sticking out.. Let me know what you all think and I welcome any and all comments!

-DjAtio

https://soundcloud.com/anthony-higham/ffvii-wall-market-update

[timaeus222]

Much better on the drums, esp. the snare. The soundscape is also more filled in by the rhythm guitar, which is welcome. The panning is a bit awkward, though. I question why the rhythm guitar would be left and a synth would be on the right, rather than the rhythm guitar double-tracked (two takes, 100% panned left and right), with the synth in the center but mixed towards the back of the soundscape using a lower predelay on the reverb (so that the instrument feels closer to a wall behind it) and a slight, slight decrease on the dry mix/signal to attenuate the higher frequencies a little bit. Something like that. Just a convention comment, I would say.

It actually also sounds less copy-paste and more swagger-like. You might want to also play new rhythm guitar parts with longer notes (rather than copy and paste the take from earlier on) for 2:10, since it sounds like a breakdown section, which naturally has lower energy, dynamically. Speaking of breakdown sections, you also have more structure. Good work, keep it up. Sounds like it could keep going for another half minute or so.

Edited January 2, 2015 by timaeus222

[DjATIO]

Much better on the drums, esp. the snare. The soundscape is also more filled in by the rhythm guitar, which is welcome. The panning is a bit awkward, though. I question why the rhythm guitar would be left and a synth would be on the right, rather than the rhythm guitar double-tracked (two takes, 100% panned left and right), with the synth in the center but mixed towards the back of the soundscape using a lower predelay on the reverb (so that the instrument feels closer to a wall behind it) and a slight, slight decrease on the dry mix/signal to attenuate the higher frequencies a little bit. Something like that. Just a convention comment, I would say.

It actually also sounds less copy-paste and more swagger-like. You might want to also play new rhythm guitar parts with longer notes (rather than copy and paste the take from earlier on) for 2:10, since it sounds like a breakdown section, which naturally has lower energy, dynamically. Speaking of breakdown sections, you also have more structure. Good work, keep it up. Sounds like it could keep going for another half minute or so.

Thanks for the input. I am assuming by, "synth" you are referring to the rhythm synth? or are you talking about the Lead melody synth? I Did double track the rhythm guitar and panned 100% to each side. Perhaps the rhythm synth being slightly delayed to the left is interfering with the harmonic frequencies of the guitar.

[Tonalysis]

This is a great improvement! I agree with timaeus that the ending still needs work. You've started setting up a great build starting around 2:30, but the guitar and synth lines through the build are all the same as they were before. This is your chance to go nuts!

Nice work. Keep going!

[Michael_Lochlann]

I like this. But I feel like I want it to be more funky. I hear that that's the direction it's sort of going, funk metal. After all the original track is sort of reggae-ish, then you're throwing in high gain guitar.

I wonder if you replace the punchy chord synth with clean wah guitar playing the same thing, make it funkier...

the production is good.

my only problem is, it sounds too much like the original track. the parts you added, sound to me, just to be glued on to make it a little different...i think you can work to make it a little more different than the original altogether, to make your arrangement less like "I added a drum fill" and more like "I made this my own."

for inspiration compare Shadow's theme in FF6 to his part of the ending theme in FF6...same melody...waaay different sound...or Awakening vs. Terra's theme. You can do a lot to a melody just by changing the rhythms, chords, etc. underlying it.

[Michael_Lochlann]

also the drums feel too fake to me...try throwing on a send to a saturation plugin or Tube screamer sim (Softube Saturation and TS-999 I use a lot, both are free). What we miss in sampled drums is the harmonics, you know, that you get from beating the shit out of a cymbal...

[timaeus222]

Thanks for the input. I am assuming by, "synth" you are referring to the rhythm synth? or are you talking about the Lead melody synth? I Did double track the rhythm guitar and panned 100% to each side. Perhaps the rhythm synth being slightly delayed to the left is interfering with the harmonic frequencies of the guitar.

When the rhythm guitar comes in with the rhythmic saw, it feels like the guitar is mostly on the left, even though the lower frequencies are kind of audible on the right, and I can't hear much of it on the right otherwise.

Edited January 2, 2015 by timaeus222

[DjATIO]

Alright, so I think i did what you guys said.. take a listen and see for yourself! Added some saturation to the drums using Limiter, also fixed the buildup and ending. I think I'm done working on this one for tonight. Hope everyone had a good New Years!

https://soundcloud.com/anthony-higham/wall-market-update-2

Edited January 2, 2015 by DjATIO

[timaeus222]

There, the rhythm guitar comes through more on the right. I also like what you added after 2:30. Ending needs more time to fade out, but overall it's an improvement.

Edited January 2, 2015 by timaeus222

[DjATIO]

I like this. But I feel like I want it to be more funky. I hear that that's the direction it's sort of going, funk metal. After all the original track is sort of reggae-ish, then you're throwing in high gain guitar.

I wonder if you replace the punchy chord synth with clean wah guitar playing the same thing, make it funkier...

the production is good.

my only problem is, it sounds too much like the original track. the parts you added, sound to me, just to be glued on to make it a little different...i think you can work to make it a little more different than the original altogether, to make your arrangement less like "I added a drum fill" and more like "I made this my own."

for inspiration compare Shadow's theme in FF6 to his part of the ending theme in FF6...same melody...waaay different sound...or Awakening vs. Terra's theme. You can do a lot to a melody just by changing the rhythms, chords, etc. underlying it.

My intention on this track is to make it my own but to also sound somewhat like the original, say, if a metal band were to play it at a show. I did alter some of the chords, and melody. But at the same time, respecting the basic harmonic structure of the song as well as the melodic structure. If you change both the melody and harmony underneath at the same time for too long, it can become unrecognizable.

[DjATIO]

thank you! I will continue to perfect it.

LATEST UPDATE: https://soundcloud.com/anthony-higham/wall-market-update-2

Edited January 3, 2015 by DjATIO

[Michael_Lochlann]

cool, the drums sound better to me now. considering what you said about where you were headed, i think it's ready to submit....sounds good to me.

[DjATIO]

cool, the drums sound better to me now. considering what you said about where you were headed, i think it's ready to submit....sounds good to me.

Thanks, man. I will finalize the song soon by tweaking a few things, like Eq/levels... Maybe add a few things melodically/harmonically/rhythmically to my liking and see what you all think about it, then submit soon.

[TeiOch]

"oppressed people" is one of the coolest track from ff.vii and I fell for this remake right from the start. When you posted "Update 2" it sounded even better! So hey, I'm really excited to hear the finalizing version of this amazing remake. I cannot wait anymore!

I also liked your reasoning that it's like a band playing it live sort of sound structure. Totally different, but totally recognizable. Yet staying true to its theme...

waiting impatiently.

[DjATIO]

"oppressed people" is one of the coolest track from ff.vii and I fell for this remake right from the start. When you posted "Update 2" it sounded even better! So hey, I'm really excited to hear the finalizing version of this amazing remake. I cannot wait anymore!

I also liked your reasoning that it's like a band playing it live sort of sound structure. Totally different, but totally recognizable. Yet staying true to its theme...

waiting impatiently.

Thanks man, I'm still waiting on the judges decisions; As I have done as much on it as I can. The hard drive that I had the FL file crashed, so i'd have to completely start fresh if i were to do more on it. In the meantime, I may work on some more FFX stuff (zanarkand) in the future! 

 

-Anthony