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Metroid Prime 2 'Stir of Echoes' RESUB 11/25


Will it get accepted by the judges?  

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  1. 1. Will it get accepted by the judges?



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alright I am gonna start working on this again today, im gonna work on the piano from 1:00 to 2:00, I think I might cut down on some the chord progress alil bit and combine and rewrite a few parts ala Break Tekk's comments. Also in the beginning intro i'll be taking out :28 to :38, and then I'll see what I can do about getting the opening heartbeat more in tempo with the piano and if it sounds better that way. I'll also be trying to brush up on lil stuff here and there. I've already done alot of mastering effects(sounds much cleaner) but I'm having trouble ripping the mp3 bc the piano with the mastering effects gives off too much feedback. Any more comments between now and tonight would really help if anyone else notices anything, or wants to agree or dispute what some of the others guys have said about the mix. It seems like now, that there are certain parts that one person likes and another person doesn't. It's a love hate relationship.

They'll be an update on this within the next 24 hrs, and also Radiowar is looking over the flp. file so after i get his analysis, opinions, and feedback after he takes a good long look at it they'll be another update.

I am hoping to wrap this one up soon, and then submit it. I know for certain it has enough rearrangement to get accepted. But it's needs to be sanded and polished and probably varnished.

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I looked over it last night and made some changes to the piano and other instruments, got rid of some clipping and murky parts, and changed some timing stuff...but I accidently deleted some things that I shouldn't have so...I dunno. The file is killing my CPU too haha. Can't handle that much Sytrus.

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haha yeah I have a high end pc, 1 gb ram, 3.4 ghz processor, xi fi soundcard, and it kills mine too even after deleting alot of the junk that accumulated in the file. If you wanna send what you do have or tell me what changes you made with the file if you, I still have the original original one, so I can mix and match with the changes. it'd be a pain, but it is the weekend and I got the time.

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haha well I exported the mp3 and it sounded like crap. It was hard to tell when I was working on it even with the buffer rate and stuff.

I'm not sure how much of the stuff I changed would end up helping, but I'd suggest using the Parametric EQ to take out some of the mid-range stuff so the piano doesn't sound so crappy. Also you don't need to use so many pianos, you have like 4 on there I think. Is there any reason for that? Cuz it was causing a lot of the clipping.

Aaand uhh...the pads (rich ensemble) at the beginning, I couldn't tell what was going on because it wouldn't play properly for me, but I'd suggest trying to using fewer notes (as in actual pitches, not the hundred tiny notes you have there). I think that's why it sounded weird to me.

Oh and at the beginning I put the first piano up an octave. I just think it sounds nicer there.

I can send you what I did but it sounds pretty terrible so there's probably no point. I'll try again when I have time...

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Just a quick note: If something is clipping, drop a fruity soft clipper on the FX channel. Its a soft limiter, which means it compresses gradually as the signal apporaches the threshold. I doesn't effect the sound too much, unless you put WAYYYY to much through it, and its really easy on the CPU as well.

I would still reccomend using a compressor for the master track, but Fruity soft clipper is rather nice for individual FX channels where I just want something to stop clipping.

Good luck with the reworking!

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I'm using multi-compression on individual tracks all over the place. Ok I did a heavily tinkered with boo bass instead of slayer2(demo) for the guitar in the second part so no clipping at the end.

Added a shakugachi flute, mainly in the 1st part of the song, it plays a lil harmony and thens plays some high notes after the piano. High notes were meant to be played by piano, but it just didn't sound right.

Also in the 2nd breakdown it accompanies the piano. The addition of the flute and the new high notes good or bad?

I used the maestro soundfont for piano when the piano is accompanied by the flute in the first and second intros. I tried the maestro for the regular piano but it just sounded a lil too dry even with reverb, it made it so the flute was the dominant sound instead of the piano.

The flute is also in the second part about an octave down and the volume is severely reduced, but it shadows the blown bottle melody.

There was a timing issue with part of the piano in the first part fixed that.

Also I've done a lot of mastering all over the place.

In the intro I put the first two pianos up an octave...it does sound better in my opinion.

Hmm, oh yeah the heart beat is slower, but it follows a pattern much more akin to the rhythm of the intro piano. There were also slight tempo changes in the beginning here and there, evened those out.

Lastly the intro strings are less notes ala Radiowar's comments.

the piano in the 1st main part goes from scales C to C (dropped the melody about 2 steps, was in A# changed ala Break Tekk) the to A#, back to C for a sec, then its back to A# for the rest. The second main part, the blown bottle is mainly in C, with one or two parts in A# (that's how the original is)

I posted the link uptop :roll:

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Yes, yes, yes. Much much better than when I last heard it. Can't remember when that was. ANYWAYS:

Love the piano chord change - Along with the new piano bits, it really fixes up that problem with the track not going anywhere. I think there is one note that is off towards at the end, around 1:15.

But the second half, from when the bass and stuff come in, just isn't as good. I'm quite sure there is stil some sort of timeing badness going on there. And it still sounds disjointed. The bass does sound better though.

So keep at it. The first half, apart form the one note, is officially awesome.

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I heard this back suring your first incarnation so let's see how its changed. I think I'll tackle this a bit differently than normal.

Heartbeat: I like it, I like how there's not too much of it, it gives it room to breathe

Piano: A bit thin and a crappy sample, but aside from that its good

Pad: Fits well with the theme, nice and haunting/soothing

Rainstick: Fucking perfect

"crystal" synth: I'm calling that synth with a lot of attack the crystal synth because it reminds me of crystals. It fits well but I feel something more could be added to it. Also, a lot of times it seems out of time.

Choir: Fits very well also

Drums: Too quite and don't give any sense of beat, they get overpowered too easily

Bass: I like it, a lot.

Arrangement: Not crazy about the arrangement, its a bit too boring, nothing really holds you attention long enough for the drums to come in. I must say though, I do love the piano at the end.

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there is another update coming soon, I just have to eliminate some major new found clipping because of new backdrops I added in the second part. I am using multiband compression and the soft clipper on individual tracks. I might try to add a compressor to the master or something bc the clipping is really bad now. So as soon as I fix that the new update will be up.

I increased volume on drums, and added some backing drums. I added more melody back drops and bridge parts to the second. And fixed the pattern of notes on that "crystal synth" (it's actually blown bottle on sytrus vst) And I layered the piano in the first main part, the sample sound much better now.

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OK the update is listed uptop. I got rid of all the clipping! Yes all, added a multiband compressor to the master (thanks splunkle) and I also added a new line of percussion in the second part. It's lil wood blocks and congo drums. Alrighty, i think this one is finally all coming together.

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Piano sounds a lot better! it's less dry. I have issues with the pads now. The notes just don't work with the piano. I'd suggest not playing chords (ie. triads) but maybe just octaves, or just a sustained pedal point type thing (ie. holding one note throughout). The pads shouldn't be terribly complex, it takes away from the atmosphere you're trying to establish.

So the intro has gotten a lot better. The second part is still kind of messy. The chord progression you're using doesn't make a whole let of sense musically. It sounds like you're trying to make this both ambient as well as melodic, and it clashes. Once again the pads are a big problem...Just makes everything sound muddy.

The sound at around 2:43 (I think it was the glass bottle) could have a little less decay.

The section starting at 2:54 sounds awesome! Has some potential anyways. Reminds me of Porcupine Tree sort of. I think the bottle synth is ruining it kind of. I'd like to hear this part without it.

The ending isn't bad. Kind of music-boxy. Maybe you should use a glockenspiel for it?

So yeah this is getting better. I think the section at 2:54 has the most promise, but the problem is it doesn't really go well with the source.

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Just a quick update, did one notes on the beggining pad, still left the strings playing all the notes. Turned the attack down on the blown bottle, and lowered the volume a lil, and I raised the volume of the backing choir(actually it's a heavily tinkered shakugachi flute) Layered the ending piano(tried the glockenspiel, parts of it sounded good with it and parts of it sounded really off)

Minor changes, I'll probably try out some more variations on notes on the pads and strings, maybe it's the reverb that's killing part of the strings, I can see where ur coming from on those comments radiowar. I also tried some different intruments instead of the blown bottle, but nothin worked.

Well I'm hoping to submit this one soon, some yes or no's about chances of getting accepted along with comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

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Well, it's sounding a lot better from when you first started, but I'd say you still have a long way to go. The atmosphere is a lot better, but the pacing still feels random and overall it just meanders too much. I'd say right now you should start focusing on an arrangement that makes sense.

And there's still problems with the instrumentation, ie. certain things sounding too fake or too synthy, etc.

Specifically:

- Pads at 0:21 play a pretty ugly chord

- 0:43 introduces a new pad nicely, but there's way too much low end now and it sounds too dense

- The notes at around 0:16 take away too much from the atonal feel of everything else. They make the listener expect a certain key, but the key you go to next at 0:18 is completely unrelated and sounds jarring

- Starting at 2:30 there are chords played by a xylophone sounding thing, they sound wrong. Maybe try just octaves or something that doesn't create a sense of key

- 2:43-2:54 I would cut. Just doesn't sound good.

- The part at 2:54 is really the most interesting part of the song, so in the arrangement I'd try to write it so that it comes earlier than 3 minutes into the song. Once this part comes in, the beginning really seems irrelevant.

- FX starting at 3:25 ish are a little overbearing. But it's not a bad idea

- Melody at 3:36 should maybe be a different instrument, but if you can't, then at least get rid of some of the decay

- 4:06 hooooly shit ugly note. I think that is the xylophone's fault again. May be the piano.

So yeah some stuff to think about. There's more, but those should be the easiest to fix for now.

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Thankx, I'll go through and check everything out. Personally my own vote would prob be No with a resubmit. There is so much going on in the song, it's hard to really break it down, I've heard it so many times I don't notice half the stuff in it anymore.

I think the biggest pitfall with the song, was when I cut up and rearranged and added 2 mins worth material, that really created about 50% of the problems I spent the last week ironing out.

Thanks for the comments, got me motivated again to start trying to make even more changes.

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OK, I finally cut out those parts...much better, I should have knocked some sense into myself and paid more attention to the music theory in those parts. I layered in a guitar for that melody in the 2nd part main section. The xtra beat that kicks in with the main melody, I changed some of the instruments. Toned down the blown bottle(decay and volume), and also did some other shit but I can't remember everything I did.

The tempo now doesn't jump from 90 to 110, until after the 1st piano part plays(there are 5 parts to the piano in the 1st main section) To me it sounds wierd bc I'm used to it being faster. But I think it sounds better. The flute doesn't start echoeing the piano till the 2nd piano part anyways. The difference in when the tempo changes in this version compared to all the other previous versions happened by accident when I was editing. I heard it and thought it was good, so ye or nay or the new tempo change?

I know this piece has 2 intros and 2 main sections and a solo piano ending. Personally I like this setup, and the 1st part really helps me to deviate from the original source tune. Does anyone have any strong objections to this arrangement, with the 2 intros and 2 main parts and piano solo ending? Thanks guys!

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I think the beginning shouldn't be so sudden. Maybe have the pads start a beat or two before the piano comes in.

I still have issues with the notes the pads play, but it doesn't matter necessarily in the intro since you are going for an ambient type atmosphere. It gets worse around 0:48 though. It is probably the cause of why it sounds so random, because it has no direction in relation to the melody. It seems to meander, and as a result, everything else does.

I still think the melody around 1:06 doesn't work, but maybe it's personal preference. To me, it establishes a key that didn't exist before and is immediately forgotten, which isn't really a good thing. Maybe if the pads were in key it would help.

So yeah my comment about the pads goes for everything up until the part at 2:26 pretty much. There are other problems, but the notes in the pads is the biggest one for now.

Timing problems at 2:38...melody comes in offbeat and plays out of time with the beat. Gotta get the timings right...

Interesting idea at 3:05. Maybe you should get a real electric guitar there (assuming that's what that's supposed to be). The synth shouldn't be playing along with it I think.

More wrong notes around 3:29...3:34...3:38...

For the ending if you're gonna use piano, at least use a less dry sounding one...

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alright im taking this one to #ocrwip and see what kinda feedback I get there, so far they say the rythm is alil off but its ambient so...

darkesword said he liked it, liked the piano, that was it before i got disconnected

Uh, the guitar in the 2nd part was shot down, guess i'll try something different. I'll prob have another update in about 2-3 days

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alright bitches, changed both of the pads! it was one of the pads causing all the timing problems, nothing to do with arrangement (the melody and the pads are arrangement carbon copy the same as the source)

Ah, what was causing this timing difference, in the source tune the intruments for the backing pads had lots of attack and no decay or echoe. Well in my version this was the complete opposite...causing that off beat feel. My low pad bellowed up and echoed after the initial note.

I also took out the guitar, and added some crazy synth and then I went did some crazy mastering effects to it for the main melody in the 2nd part, u might not notice but it's different. Compare it with the synth sound that plays bout 20 secs before, and u'll notice.

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alright had the beat start wit the melody at 2:36

3:36 was an A#(wrong scale) changed it to a B, sounds like it works.

Didn't really hear anything wrong with 3:31.

3:26 there weren't enough notes, changed that.

If anyone hears any off key notes or clashing anywhere that'd be a big help.

Also, on #ocrwip got some feedback the bass frequencies might be to high, anyone else getting that? My speakers are blown, plus I live in an apartment so my bass is turned down.

I'm gonna try to get a judge to take a quick look at it, to see if there is something minor that needs to be changed. Going to try to submit this by the end of the weekend, been getting good feedback on it at #ocrwip, but I haven't gotten any serious critique there yet. But at least I got radiowar, he's always able to find something, which is def a big help.

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Also, on #ocrwip got some feedback the bass frequencies might be to high, anyone else getting that? My speakers are blown, plus I live in an apartment so my bass is turned down.

Well yeah, I think I said that a couple times before (when I said there was too much low end, that's what I meant).

For example, the instrument entering at 0:30 has too much low end. Makes everything sound really dense. The main melodies barely cut through it.

alright had the beat start wit the melody at 2:36

Well it's in time, only it's a beat too soon? I don't know whether this is intentional and you're trying to change the feel of the source, but it still sounds like it should be on the downbeat to me. Maybe turn down the velocity on that first note so it feels like it leads into the downbeat more.

3:26 there weren't enough notes, changed that.

Still hearing a wrong note there.

OK so the melody is outlining c minor (C Eb G) basically, and the chord at 3:26 has an E natural which is causing the problem.

3:36 was an A#(wrong scale) changed it to a B, sounds like it works.

It's still a very strange chord. I can't figure it out by listening to it though.

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3:36 was playing B in this version it is playing C, the chord is playin (C E A C) IN the proggression of the melody to reach that C, there is G played right before. Really can't stretch that note any higher

At 2:36, that initial note is meant to be a lead in, i'll just lower the velocity some.

I'll work on cutting down on some of the bass on the pads, through multiband compression. The ratio was turned way down on the low frequency. Before I had cut down on the# of notes being played but I guess that wasn't the problem. Damn apartment, and at work I'm on headphones.

3:26, the notes are fine, it's 3:12 the melody was playing C minor. Hearing it differently at 3:26 is prob what was causing the problem. I left it in there before I liked the clash of sound it brought, well now it's changed.

I'll be ripping an mp3, and putting up the update in a couple of minutes.

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3:36 was playing B in this version it is playing C, the chord is playin (C E A C) IN the proggression of the melody to reach that C, there is G played right before. Really can't stretch that note any higher

Oh ok. Well technically you're not even supposed to double the third, let alone triple it...maybe the chord should just be A and E?

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Okay, just listened to the version posted today. I do like it, especially the way you have been improving. Unfortunatly, I think the streaming is affecting quality, at least for me. It sounded like it was encoded at 64kbits, so its probably just the streaming thing. The thing is, I can't really comment on the bass because of that. So I can't help your there. Sorry, avaris =(

But onto stuff I can help with: You have used the delayed piano well. using any instrument with that much delay is kinda risky, because you risk mudifiying the whole mix, but you have avoided that. I'm not hearing any wrong notes either, except for one, maybe, around 1:03. It could be funky chord change though.

Also, the beat in the second bit is good - but I think the pads were triggering a quaver earlier. Made the pads sound a little off-time.

Thats all I got. I'm really sorry I couldn't help with bass issues. =/

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