Help recording electric guitar

[StormPooperSmith]

I want to record my electric guitar on my PC, but after searching the forums and google, I'm no clearer on exactly what I need. This is the equipment I have:

Guitar: Washburn Lyon

Amp: Marshall MG30DFX

Sound card: Crappy cheap thing (uses C-Media AC97 drivers)

I'd prefer to plug the guitar into the PC (either directly or through the amp) than using a mic, plus I'm on a relatively low budget.

I'd like recommendations as to a decent suitable sound card and anything else I may need.

Thanks

[Edit: Wrong amp model, it's the MG30DFX, not the MG50DFX. Plus I've added my sound card drivers in]

[Geoffrey Taucer]

To plug your guitar directly into the soundcard and get good results, you'll need an amp modeler. I know people around here probably get tired of hearing me say this, but Guitar Suite is awesome. And it's free. Highly reccomended.

[StormPooperSmith]

So does Guitar Suite emulate the Amp?

Also, would I need anything else other than to plug my guitar directly into the Line In (and would I need a better sound card, with SoundFonts and such)?

Another question (so many ): I've read good things about the PodXT, would that be another viable option? (Edit: I would be willing to save up the money for it, wouldn't take too long).

Thanks

[Splunkle]

Whether you need a new sound card or a POD XT depends on the quality of your current sound card. If its so crap you have noise everywhere, then yeah, get somehting new. But if it has an acceptable amount of noise... well, save up for something you really need.

Idealy, on has a quality amp (I have no idea if your amp qualifies for this), which one then records from using a microphone. This requires at least US$200, I think, doing a quick mental tally. Preamp + Mic + soundcard... errr, maybe $300. You could do some research into various options - google gives a whole lot of info about miccing up amps. But you know, only if you are willing to lay down a lot of money. A pod XT is much cheaper, no?

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So does Guitar Suite emulate the Amp?

Yes.

Also, would I need anything else other than to plug my guitar directly into the Line In (and would I need a better sound card, with SoundFonts and such)?

That depends on the quality of your current soundcard, but I'd say that if you're working with distortion, which will noticeably amplify any unwanted noise, a good soundcard would probably be a worthwhile investment. The E-mu 404 is only $100 (or was last I checked -- it might even be less now), and it's pretty decent. There are plenty of others out there, but the E-mus are the only ones I have any experience with.

Creative's soundcards (SBlive, audigy, etc) seem to get mixed reviews. I've heard some very good sound designers declare them to be great, and I've heard some declare them to be crap. I'd tend to shy away from them, though, simply because they're consumer gear, not production gear.

[klm09]

So does Guitar Suite emulate the Amp?

Also, would I need anything else other than to plug my guitar directly into the Line In (and would I need a better sound card, with SoundFonts and such)?

Another question (so many ): I've read good things about the PodXT, would that be another viable option? (Edit: I would be willing to save up the money for it, wouldn't take too long).

Thanks

The PodXT is one excellent piece of gear. I have one myself with some add ons (model packs in Line6 lingo), and IMHO, you can't go wrong with one. Plus, you can record the output from that digitally over USB, so you don't even need a soundcard at all to record it; the PodXT acts as an external soundcard when you use it like that.

Just trying it out you might not be blown away (a lot of the presets sell it short), but once you know your way around it and become familiar with the amp, cab and effect models, you can get basically any tone you could possibly want out of it, or at least something that's 98% there.

[StormPooperSmith]

I just tested the Line In port - there's a constant humming noise in the background. This is both with the amp plugged in and with the guitar plugged directly into the Line In. Would the E-MU 0404 get rid of that, or would that happen anyway?

I like the sound of the E-MU 0404 slightly more at the moment, but I'd love to hear some more opinions if anyone's willing to share them.

[SnappleMan]

I use an Audiophile 24/96 and am completely happy with it.

I really dislike guitar suite because it's not accurate at all. I mean, emulating a tube amps circuit without some kind of vacuum tube emulation is pointless, it'll just sound like digital bullshit. But, with alot of smart producing you can get it to sound good.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I use an Audiophile 24/96 and am completely happy with it.

I really dislike guitar suite because it's not accurate at all. I mean, emulating a tube amps circuit without some kind of vacuum tube emulation is pointless, it'll just sound like digital bullshit. But, with alot of smart producing you can get it to sound good.

It may not be completely accurate, but the price is right, and it sounds good enough to be used in the same context in which you'd use the real thing.

In other words, guitar suite models don't sound like the real thing, but they sound close enough that nobody except a few particularly finicky guitarists will care.

[SnappleMan]

That's not at all true. Anyone who has experiance playing a decent amp will tell you that guitar suite sounds crappy.

There are simply too many factors to take into account when identifying an amps tone, like room sounds, the mic used, the cab used, the mic placement, and the natural distortion that comes from driven tubes.

The JCM900 which guitar suite emulates may be accurate on the circuit level, but that's just the first step in the tone it should produce.

To get guitar suite to sound good takes alot of work, but you're right in that the price is right, and it certainly is better than nothing.

[StormPooperSmith]

Yeah, I've read the various arguements about Guitar Suite (mostly from you two ) but I figure if I don't go for the Pod XT and get a new sound card (which is more likely at the moment) the it would do until I get more serious about recording (I'd probably then invest in a mic setup after I upgraded to a new guitar and amp).

Any other sound card or amp modeller recommendations? I'd like a broader range of options before I take the plunge.

[Legion303]

I'm really enjoying Amplitube 2.

-steve

[klm09]

Any other sound card or amp modeller recommendations? I'd like a broader range of options before I take the plunge.

I only have personal experience with the PodXT, but the general consensus about the Boss GT-8, Vox ToneLab and the Line6 PodXT seems to be:

The Boss GT-8 has lots of effects with great routing possibilities, but the amp models aren't anywhere near the PodXT. Has an effects loop, with built in effects possible before or after the loop, so can easily be used just for the effects in conjunction with an amp or another modeller. Basically, sounds best when used as a multieffects unit.

The Vox ToneLab is better for cleans and crunch tones than the PodXT (I guess it's the tube magic at work there; the ToneLab has a built in tube in the preamp section I believe), but falls short on high gain tones when compared to the PodXT, sounding mellower than modern rock / metal stylings might require. Plus, it only has a handful of different amp models and effects when compared to the PodXT. So basically you get less flexibility, but potentially better tones if the narrower palette of sounds caters to your needs.

The PodXT is the go-to unit for high gain tones out of the current modelers available on the market. It has potentially 78 guitar amp models and 29 bass amp models IF you spend more money on the model packs (a factory PodXT has 42 guitar amp models if freely upgraded to the latest firmware version). A variety of effects, but limited routing (most effects can either be pre or post amp, and they have a fixed order). All in all, it most likely has what you need in the amp department, but the effects and routing might be lacking if you want pre and post EQ, and to be able to switch around the order of your effects (before the amp, chorus is always before delay, for example).

As a side note, you'll want to use fairly hot pick ups in your guitar, or alternately put in some booster or distortion stomp warming up the signal before the PodXT to get the best tone out of it.

If you have further questions about the PodXT in particular, I'll be glad to answer them.

EDIT: Oh, and why I wrote about those 3 units in particular is because they are the 3 foremost stand alone hardware modelers on the market right now. What I mean by stand alone is that they don't have a built in speaker and do have built in cab emulation, so you can just plug in headphones, a full spectrum PA speaker, or hook it up to some recording device and you're good to go.

[StormPooperSmith]

Thanks for the info klm09, interesting stuff. That's given me a much better idea of what I should go for (the PodXT sounds best for my needs out of the three). I'm starting to lean towards the PodXT, as I could use it on more than one computer, or as a mini-practise amp with headphones (rather than hulking the MG30FX around the house whenever I want to practise).

Also, I've read the headphones/monitors thread, but I was wondering if anybody has some recommendations for some realtively cheap headphones for recording/mixing. Either closed or half-closed is good, as long as they're comfortable after a couple of hours use.

Thanks again

[klm09]

Something just occured to me, if the Guitar Suite doesn't have built in cab emulation (does it?) and sounds buzzy and whatever you could use SIR (http://www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html) and grab some cab impulse responses from for example Noisevault (http://noisevault.com/nv/). You could probably get a better tone out of it that way.

[SnappleMan]

Nigga please

[StormPooperSmith]

Well, I didn't actually use Guitar Suite in my test, I just recorded straight into a Wave Editor (tried both Nero Wave Editor and Audacity). At the time of testing, I couldn't get recording to work in FL Studio without an ASIO-compatible card. Now though, I've got ASIO4ALL (which dupes it into thinking it's ASIO-compatible), so I may attempt it again in FL Studio. I'm leaning towards investing in a PodXT, which sounds best for my needs.

[KnockKnock]

i use a strat through a mg30dfx. plug guitar into amp, then amp out into microphone port in pc. you'll need a 1/4" cable with a 1/4"-1/8" adaptor for it though (they're cheap). download goldwave, and make sure you have a metronome. then you can edit the wav recording of your riff, sample it into a pirated copy of fruityloops and you're good to go.

[Sixto]

I don't think Guitar Suite sounds bad at all and it doesn't seem to take alot to make it sound great. I highly recommend it even if you can afford stuff like Guitar Rig or Amplitube.