I Have a Question About Cadences

[Uffe von Lauterbach]

I'm currently trying to work on a soundtrack, and at first I thought things were going well, but now I'm concerned. None of this has to do with production quality or anything like that. Right now I'm just worried about what's considered a cadence and if I'm going to have to somehow change things, which I'd honestly prefer not to have to. The track below is a boss theme in 5/4 time that doesn't have a melody yet, and I began to realize that none of the sections land on a cadence. It just keeps going, but there will eventually be an ending to the track that will just repeat. There's a choir section that goes from 0:24 - 0:39. The final part of the choir section isn't resolved, either. Is that a half cadence when it reaches 0:39? Is that acceptable so long the track eventually resolves? It just lands into another section at 0:40, and it sounds cool, but I don't know if this is acceptable. I'm trying to create some kind of tension here, so it's an ongoing theme. Like I said, there will be an ending to it, which will then just repeat the track.

https://soundcloud.com/uffevonlauterbach/track

[Audiomancer]

I think the sus chord to the major chord at 40 seconds in is good, and sets up the following section nicely. Since it's boss battle music, tension is perfectly acceptable, IMO. The only thing I might add to that section is a percussion buildup that reaches it's climax immediately following the major chord at :40. You have a hit at that point, but perhaps a buildup during the sus chord and major chord would add emphasis? I'm not the most experienced writer, so consider that:)

[Uffe von Lauterbach]

1 hour ago, Audiomancer said:

I think the sus chord to the major chord at 40 seconds in is good, and sets up the following section nicely. Since it's boss battle music, tension is perfectly acceptable, IMO. The only thing I might add to that section is a percussion buildup that reaches it's climax immediately following the major chord at :40. You have a hit at that point, but perhaps a buildup during the sus chord and major chord would add emphasis? I'm not the most experienced writer, so consider that:)

Thanks for the response. It sounds good to me, too. I'm just wondering if it's acceptable. I was recently hearing about sentence form, ABA form, and then cadence, half cadence, and perfect cadence. I can add a build up just before the next part.

[Hemophiliac]

Ask yourself this:  "Does it need to have a cadence?"

It's not a requirement for a loop to have a cadence.  Don't be concerned with including something unless you want to or need to (such as a requirement from a director).  Your transition at 0:40 works for me.

The thing that I thought was strange was a fade-in at the beginning, doesn't work for me on a boss tune.  (Unless that's just that way for WIP purposes).

[Uffe von Lauterbach]

7 hours ago, Hemophiliac said:

Ask yourself this:  "Does it need to have a cadence?"

It's not a requirement for a loop to have a cadence.  Don't be concerned with including something unless you want to or need to (such as a requirement from a director).  Your transition at 0:40 works for me.

The thing that I thought was strange was a fade-in at the beginning, doesn't work for me on a boss tune.  (Unless that's just that way for WIP purposes).

I asked myself that. Even though I thought what I have is fine, it was just something that was bothering me. I asked on Twitter, even tagging the word musicians, but I got no responses. I figured I'd try the one place I know where musicians are at. Thank you for your response. And yes, the fade-in is for WIP purposes. I should've titled it with WIP at the end like I normally do, but I forgot to. I plan on making a beginning section for a scene just before this track starts.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Uffe von Lauterbach

[Nase]

no you don't need anything like that, it just has to feel right.

upload a version of the track that shows a full loop. i like the choir stuff btw, sounds good.

this sounds quite ok compositionally, as a boss tune. there's not enough energy in the synth riffs during the first 25 secs and that's more of a sound and mixing problem. but it's not bad man.

boss tracks especially are a great opportunity to go wild and fuck theory. have fun, you're doing good (really.)

but do provide a proper loop. it's all about how the track loops, especially if it's just a minute long.

btw is uffe a real name?

[Uffe von Lauterbach]

3 hours ago, Nase said:

no you don't need anything like that, it just has to feel right.

upload a version of the track that shows a full loop. i like the choir stuff btw, sounds good.

this sounds quite ok compositionally, as a boss tune. there's not enough energy in the synth riffs during the first 25 secs and that's more of a sound and mixing problem. but it's not bad man.

boss tracks especially are a great opportunity to go wild and fuck theory. have fun, you're doing good (really.)

but do provide a proper loop. it's all about how the track loops, especially if it's just a minute long.

btw is uffe a real name?

Personally it does feel right to me. I went back and changed it a couple days ago to have it end an Fadd4, so I was having concerns about it. I haven't finished the track, so no loop yet. I was going to continue, but I stopped just to ask this question because I didn't want to have to go back and change things until then. Personally I think in terms of quality, the choir could sound more realistic, but I just have something that sounds too synthetic. Not that I have an issue with it. I haven't come up with a melody quite yet. It's in Locrian mode, so I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to make that work. And yes, Uffe is a real name. It's Danish for wolf.

[Nase]

that's a nice name. thought it german because of the family name.

i thought the choir fit nicely because everything before that is pretty synthetic, so it sounds relatively organic in comparison.

if thinking in the greek modes helps you compose that's alright, but there's no rule either saying that you'd have to stick with a mode.

what i'm hearing is what i call something like "dissonant thrash metal guitar riff" mode (because i learned most about it while learning classic metal guitar like metallica or slayer riffs.) it doesn't matter so much if it's a guitar or something else, it's about rhythm and dissonance. strictly thinking in the old diatonic modes isn't necessarily the best for doing good powerful and dark riffs like that - you might find that breaking it up with occasional chromaticism can work wonders. for example, the minor and major second can both sound very good in one riff if they're somehow used well interchangingly - and that's already beyond any of those modes. just something to keep in mind when composing stuff like this. the added freedom can be quite rewarding once you find out what you can do with it.

[Uffe von Lauterbach]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:54 AM, Nase said:

that's a nice name. thought it german because of the family name.

i thought the choir fit nicely because everything before that is pretty synthetic, so it sounds relatively organic in comparison.

if thinking in the greek modes helps you compose that's alright, but there's no rule either saying that you'd have to stick with a mode.

what i'm hearing is what i call something like "dissonant thrash metal guitar riff" mode (because i learned most about it while learning classic metal guitar like metallica or slayer riffs.) it doesn't matter so much if it's a guitar or something else, it's about rhythm and dissonance. strictly thinking in the old diatonic modes isn't necessarily the best for doing good powerful and dark riffs like that - you might find that breaking it up with occasional chromaticism can work wonders. for example, the minor and major second can both sound very good in one riff if they're somehow used well interchangingly - and that's already beyond any of those modes. just something to keep in mind when composing stuff like this. the added freedom can be quite rewarding once you find out what you can do with it.

I don't particularly compose in Greek modes, but moving into something that's not the typical major and minor scales does interest me. This may or may not be the one time I use Locrian mode because it's giving me a lot of trouble, but I'm committed to figuring something out. I'll have to take your word on the chromaticism if that can help out. I've never heard of dissonant thrash metal guitar riff mode or anything like that. I'm still trying to mess around with a melody for the beginning sections. Anyway, thanks for the advice and feedback.

[Nase]

"thrash metal mode" is like the most inconsistent mode, completely made up by tryhard musicians lacking any theory. locrian mode can accidentally describe a lot of metal riffs, just because it's so dissonant.

the most classic example of metal chromaticism is surely the intro riff of "master of puppets". i'm sure you know it.

but that's only descending...there's way more possibilities.

the second riff in this song (0:21) is actually a good example of what i meant!

e|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
B|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
G|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
D|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
A|-----2-----3-----4-----3-----2-2-----2-----3-----5\4---5\4---5\4-|
E|-0-1---0-1---0-1---0-1---0-1-----0-1---0-1---1-0-3\2-0-3\2-0-3\2-|

it uses the minor second, as well as the major second at the end. as well as both the minor and major sixth (the "3"s and "4"s on the "A" string, which make that classic "james bond" theme sound).

 

try making a melody in locrian...but you could just as well try to tack on a different section with a melody in myxolydian, or minor blues scale, or wtf ever! this type of contrast is often what makes boss themes great!

Edited October 30, 2022 by Nase