Liontamer Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 RebeccaETripp Rebecca Tripp https://www.youtube.com/@RebeccaETripp/videos ID: 48262 Game(s): Tears of the Kingdom Song Title: Sacred Core Songs Remixed: The Depths: Lightroot Here's a link to the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTXuDpRU4Co Here's a link to the file: This is my arrangement of the "Lightroot" theme from Legend of Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom. The original track, while very minimal is one of my favourite themes in the game. It's a neat one! Kind of like Nocturne of Shadow and its ilk - sacred, but "dark" in its orientation. I wanted to enhance the "sacred" feeling that occurs when Link alights the shrine roots in the underworld. To me, the lightroots might be the most beautiful and interesting thing about TotK. Link repeatedly dives into the abyss, wherein he simultaneously purifies himself, and his kingdom from within. I tried to make this song sound like it was overflowing with with minerals, soil and fluids, insects, darkness and light. I've tried my best! :3 I've given equivalent timestamps. Both tracks go on longer, but for each, I've stopped after the original loop. My version plays with this theme for another couple minutes, but it actually does the "main loop" twice (just more spaced out, and with some fun harmonies and an outro changes to emphasize its sacred aspect). I hope this is helpful! Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7DEEHF-EFk Becky's version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTXuDpRU4Co A) 0:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTXuDpRU4Co B) 0:11 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=11 C) 0:22 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=22 D) 0:31 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=31 E) 0:41 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=41 F) 0:49 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=49 G) 1:00 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=61 H) 1:11 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=71 I) 1:25 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=85 J) 1:37 https://youtu.be/o7DEEHF-EFk?t=97 A) 0:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7DEEHF-EFk B) 0:11 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=11 C) 0:25 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=25 D) 0:38 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=38 E) 0:49 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=49 F) 0:58 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=58 G) 1:05 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=65 H) 1:20 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=80 I) 1:29 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=89 J) 1:43 https://youtu.be/PTXuDpRU4Co?t=103 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) there is not a lot in this original to hang the hat of a remix on. i'm interested to see what RET does with it. the most iconic sound in the original - the zither (?) strikes - have been replaced here, and instead there's similarly separated blobs of chords used. the chord patterns used don't appear to map to the original directly, which is a weird choice when there's so little to relate them. the track noodles through these for not quite two minutes, and then begins repeating chord progressions 0 for example, 1:46 is the first chord, and the following chords are the same as the following chords in the beginning. there's some differences here - namely in the rainstick usage and the bass tremolo - but the chord structure and the lead instrument do the same thing to my ears for some time. i believe the repetition stops at 3:25, and there's a few repeated chords with some new elements (a didgeridoo and some more sustains than we've heard before) to progress to a natural fadeout in the sustains. there's some light distortion that i think is used as an effect in some places that is confusing in an auditory sense - it's not obvious to me if it's intentional or if it's an artifact of the export. a few examples are at 2:43 in the left ear and at 2:57 in both ears for several seconds. i would need a clear definition from the artist of where the original maps to this track. i hear music inspired by the original, but i don't hear enough correlation in the actual musical elements to call this a remix of lightroot specifically vs. just being inspired by that element of the game. NO edit 2/8: "the chord patterns used don't appear to map to the original directly, which is a weird choice when there's so little to relate them." who writes this tripe? hearing them side by side makes a ton more sense. sometimes i am just not good at music at all. this is clearly a solid remix of the original. i just can't use my ears sometimes. YES Edited February 8 by prophetik music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) I hear the connections, I think. They're not the same chords exactly, but the patterns map. It's hard to tell how much they map, but it's clear to me that there's a strong connection. The problem is that the original barely qualifies as music, and thus so too does the remix. We've NOed RET tracks like this in the past, so I think this vote will be predictable. It's pretty, but it's a tough sell. I didn't hear distortion at 2:43 or 2:57, but I did hear a percussion instrument (first quietly on the left, then louder together) that I think might be what proph heard. Sorry, but I think this one has to be a NO Edit 2/7/24: All right, played side-by-side in 10-second chunks, it's a lot easier to make the connections. I'm actually surprised it was as hard to tell as it was initially, because it's really obvious when you listen to it like that. I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I struggle with one of these minimalist pieces. My concerns are alleviated. Thanks again to Rebecca for being patient with us and helping out. YES Edited February 7 by MindWanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) This mix is lush, haunting and beautiful. I love the distant textures and delicate sfx. The mixing and even the mastering are working well. I love the addition of the digeridoo in the final section. This is a delightful listen. However, I am in agreement with my fellows that this source tune, similar to the "Cold" one MW linked, does not truly count as an arrangement on its own. This is one of many musical themes in the game that is meant to be more of an ambiance than a proper tune. BotW and TotK both use this musical device throughout the games. This makes the creation of a remix out of said material extremely difficult and problematic. I do hear connection to the source as I listen through, but the remix does not feel like an arrangement any more than the source does. I don't feel that timestamping it would help; even with EnoughSource™ this arrangement is going to sound like an "inspired by" rather than a remix. I'm loving it nonetheless! NO edit 2-8-24: The timestamping and another listen to this helps me. I feel like there is enough source. I still think it is much more difficult to remix these ambient/abstract sources, and just for the record I have this problem with all such remixes, from whomever submits them. Gaspode submitted a "Depths" mix recently that I had the same issue with. Just takes a bit more time and effort to identify it. YES Edited February 8 by Chimpazilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) The mixing's too muddy for my personal tastes, but I'll live, and I'd rather that than the track being too dry. The source is only 1:42-long before it loops, so it goes by quickly at a faster speed. I had to listen to the source tune awhile at 2X and 2.5X speed to better pick up on the patterns and cadence, otherwise it just sounds too abstract, but I agree with MW that the source tune seems to be all over this. What I don't agree with is saying that the source barely qualifies as music and thus the arrangement can't either. Is there a Standards violation somehow? Are we implying that this source tune somehow doesn't qualify to be arranged or simply can't be arranged in a way that would pass OCR? It's a strange thing to say that, even though the source tune seems held fast here, effectively given an expanded and transformative sound palette. But feelings and vibes don't account for me "validating" the arrangement, so I'll attempt to do some A-to-B mapping of the source references to the arrangement, but this isn't melodically transformative, so I'm surprised that no one's attempted a breakdown. These NOs feel like they're coming more from a place of the source tune being abstract and harder to grok than Rebecca going too liberal with the treatment. Not closing this yet, but I shall return with a vote... ? EDIT (4/12/24): I forgot to formally come back to this after Rebecca broke this down for us. Straightforward, I TOLD j00! YES Edited April 13 by Liontamer changed vote from ? to YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Liontamer said: What I don't agree with is saying that the source barely qualifies as music and thus the arrangement can't either. Is there a Standards violation somehow? Are we implying that this source tune somehow doesn't qualify to be arranged or simply can't be arranged in a way that would pass OCR? It's a strange thing to say that, even though the source tune seems held fast here, effectively given an expanded and transformative sound palette. But feelings and vibes don't account for me "validating" the arrangement, so I'll attempt to do some A-to-B mapping of the source references to the arrangement, but this isn't melodically transformative, so I'm surprised that no one's attempted a breakdown. These NOs feel like they're coming more from a place of the source tune being abstract and harder to grok than Rebecca going too liberal with the treatment. Not closing this yet, but I shall return with a vote... ? Just to clarify (and I should have done so in my vote), I do not mean that a more abstract source tune can't qualify for remix treatment, just that it makes it much more difficult to do so in a way that people can perceive as a remix, and it ends up sounding like an "inspired by" rather than a proper remix as a result. I suppose actually timestamping this might make the difference here. I admit I am relying on my feelings of it being too abstract overall, and I'm in agreement with a timestamp at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) On 10/20/2023 at 11:41 AM, Liontamer said: The mixing's too muddy for my personal tastes, but I'll live, and I'd rather that than the track being too dry. The source is only 1:42-long before it loops, so it goes by quickly at a faster speed. I had to listen to the source tune awhile at 2X and 2.5X speed to better pick up on the patterns and cadence, otherwise it just sounds too abstract, but I agree with MW that the source tune seems to be all over this. What I don't agree with is saying that the source barely qualifies as music and thus the arrangement can't either. Is there a Standards violation somehow? Are we implying that this source tune somehow doesn't qualify to be arranged or simply can't be arranged in a way that would pass OCR? It's a strange thing to say that, even though the source tune seems held fast here, effectively given an expanded and transformative sound palette. But feelings and vibes don't account for me "validating" the arrangement, so I'll attempt to do some A-to-B mapping of the source references to the arrangement, but this isn't melodically transformative, so I'm surprised that no one's attempted a breakdown. These NOs feel like they're coming more from a place of the source tune being abstract and harder to grok than Rebecca going too liberal with the treatment. Not closing this yet, but I shall return with a vote... ? You know, I came into this thread looking for an easy closeout, but I left feeling the same way as Larry - I think there's more to the source material than credit has been given for. The continuous rolled piano chords feel pretty directly tied to the source to me and are present throughout much of RET's arrangement. Without having ample time to timestamp it, I do think this piece warrants further discussion and that we've definitely had more nebulous source material, or more nebulous interpretations, than what I'm hearing here at first glance. Who wants to be brave and bust out the stopwatch here? EDIT: OK, so Rebecca was the brave one all along. The Hero of Time(stamping) that Hyrule has been waiting for! After checking the chords 1-to-1, it may not be exactly the same notes, but I'd be hard pressed to make the argument that this is not a remix of the Lightroot theme. The presentation of the melody as a sequence of sparse rolled piano chords is similar enough, and the intro sounds almost identical so it puts the source material clearly into the listeners head so that you're not left grasping for straws at the onset. The soundscape is fleshed out substantially too, so it passes the smell test in terms of expansiveness as well. When your source material relies so heavily on rests and space between melodic phrases, the usual timestamping approach is going to make it seem like there's not a lot of overt references to the original, but in context, I've argued that silence can be a form of source usage itself, and I think that especially applies here. The rolled chords are the lighted beacons that connect everything together and provide frequent enough touchpoints through the arrangement that you never stray too far from the source material. Thanks Rebecca for your diligence in mapping this out! This is good to go in my book :) YES Edited February 7 by Emunator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) the chords don't map directly from what i can hear. that makes these blobs of chords inspired by, and not directly taken from, the original track. they may be highly different voicings and that's where i'm losing it. i really don't dig the idea of us trying to parse this ourselves, this should be an artist-provided breakdown to ensure we're not missing stuff in either direction. edit 2/8: i am teh dumb Edited February 8 by prophetik music Emunator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 On 1/22/2024 at 7:46 AM, prophetik music said: the chords don't map directly from what i can hear. that makes these blobs of chords inspired by, and not directly taken from, the original track. they may be highly different voicings and that's where i'm losing it. i really don't dig the idea of us trying to parse this ourselves, this should be an artist-provided breakdown to ensure we're not missing stuff in either direction. I'll still try to do one anyway, but that's my bad, I should have asked in the first place. I'll reach out to Rebecca. EDIT (2/1/24): Rebecca kindly provided video-based timestamps (added to her submission comments in the first post). prophetik music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 @prophetik music@MindWanderer@Chimpazilla Tagging to bring attention to the timestamps in the first post, since Larry stealth edited these in ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts