2024/03/23 - Xenoblade Chronicles "The Road Home"

[Emunator]

Artist Name: Lucas Guimaraes ft. TSori & TheManPF

SOURCE NOTES:

0:00-0:24 - Intro from original (0:00-0:12)
0:25-1:15 - Section A from the original (0:12-0:59)
1:16-2:19 - Section B from the original (1:00-1:24)
2:20-2:48 - Section C from the original (1:25-1:57) - A little more subdued
2:49-3:48 - Section A from the original but with a variation (0:12-0:59)

Credits:
Lucas Guimaraes - Arrangement, Production, Synth Solo
TSori - Trumpet
TheManPF - Guitars

So has anyone checked out Chain Attack by Pixel Mixers yet? It's a pretty sick Xenoblade album comp. It was also my first track with coming back to Pixel Mixers. The whole story behind this track is a silly one, hoh boy, strap in. I was planning on doing it myself, but then I realized the "two collaborators" rule this track had. TSori was itching to play something on trumpet, and I knew PF would be great with guitars thanks to my experience with him in Dwelling of Duels. I gave them a lot of freedom. PF some lose instructions, leads, and chords. and TSori the melody to mess around with.

And then this track picked up REALLY fast when TSori said "I know this feels uncharacteristic from me, but it feels like there's too much trumpet" so we changed the structure to fit that. Introducing the trumpet at :50 seconds in was a risky move, but it definitely paid off. Giving the trumpet a break and doing a synth solo halfway in was also DEFINITELY the right call. I was a bit uncertain about my soloing skills, but this might be one of my favorite solos I've done!

I loved the master so much after spending weeks away from it that I was like "What if I did a redux for OCR". I think the original is pretty good(it's become a few people's favorites on the album ?) but this gives it a lot of that extra production oomph! And it was fun to go back and forth with Hemophiliac learning small little things to make the productions, and future productions of mine have a bit more oomph. Revisiting old tracks I've done used to be a dread, but now that I know more about the process and more about how to not overwork something that's working, I'm having a lot more fun! Rest assured, this is one of the first of many old tracks of mine you'll see reduxed.

Uh... What else? Funny enough, TSori and I had a conversation about Emunator's "Gold Soul" (which might not be posted before this), and TSori was telling me about how he felt a good name for it would involve starting a journey, while mine was more like a return back to home. Enter this arrangement. I've only played a few hours of Xenoblade, so I had to brush up a bit on the Refugee Camp. I noticed a quest titled "The Road Home" and felt that was a very fitting name for this arrangement. Coming back home and seeing that nothing is quite ever the same before - picking up the pieces from where parts left off.

I hope everyone enjoys this at least half as much as we loved making it!

---

Games & Sources

In the Refugee Camp - Xenoblade Chronicles

 

Edited July 23 by prophetik music

[prophetik music]

some FF5-esque synths to open the track. 0:25's where the beat and bass come in (in a different tempo, which is an interesting choice) and it feels a little dark. wouldn't have minded more highs through here. lead is pretty much playing the original's content - i would have liked to hear some movement on the synth lead part as well as dynamics. it also just ends where tsori comes in, which is a little weird. trumpet doesn't speak over the mix right off the bat but sounds great when it gets a bit higher. i liked the doubling on the theme down the octave as well, and the shift at 1:17 to drop the hats and focus on the melodic content was a good one. again the trumpet kind of drops off suddenly at the end of that section - a more dovetailed ending would have been preferable.

i really didn't care for the solo tone at first - there's a very high ringing around 4khz that really grated - but i got more into it as the solo moved along. i'd have loved to see the drums changed up for the solo section to help keep it moving forward. there's several rhythmic elements in this section that weren't quite lined up - the drum triplet's second two hits are late, the solo part at 2:04 is a bit out of time, as is 2:18. the solo ends on a non-chord tone which is a bit unsupported. overall the solo sounded pretty good, but i didn't find that it followed the chords and hit the color tones quite as much as i'd have hoped that it would have. i liked the overall rhythmic direction you went with it, however, and i'd encourage you to use space in your solos more often to help drive energy. with synth solos especially, varying vibrato and velocity can really take it to the next level - experimenting with the mod wheel, pitch wheel, and using a synth that is velocity-driven can really pump it up.

there's a bigger section with some fun interplay between the different elements at 2:50. this is the climax of the piece and it's fun to hear everything interweaving, and then come together at 3:15 for the same descending lick. the piece meanders a bit over the last 25s but it eventually finds a nice closing tone. i wouldn't have minded a fade on the synth vs. a hard cut like it had.

this is a pretty neat combination of ideas. trumpet and what i'd consider to be a jazz/blues guitar tone with synthwave elements makes for an interesting overall feel. i liked the adaptation of the themes, and for the most part the solos sounded good and were interesting. i think that i called out a ton of nitpicks above but overall this is over the bar. nice work.

 

 

YES

edit 7/23: coming back to this a few months later. the bass is really crushing everything else in the low end. LT's right that the kick doesn't have any beef, but it's because the bass is stealing it all. some sidechain or an altered bass rhythm that's not just repeated eighths would help with that. the synth solo also isn't really doing it for me - i don't like the tone still, and it spends a lot of time not doing anything, and then ends on a non-chord tone.

i think LT's statement of there being a lot of little things adding up makes sense. there's a ton of nits here and i think that correcting them would help a ton. i'm going to change my vote.

NO

Edited July 23 by prophetik music

[Liontamer]

Weird direction to take this theme in. The kick at :26... where's the beef?

TSori arrives at :51 and his trumpet doesn't cut through at all; seemed like it should ring out more in the foreground. Really don't know why this mixing sounds so nerfed. Maybe another J can better articulate why the balance feels off, or maybe Chimpazilla or ZackParrish would have some thoughts on the mastering side too.

If this passes as is, I'm OK being outvoted and being a stickler. It'll feel like I'm demanding close to perfection. To me, smaller issues are adding up. This arrangement approach is fine, but the mixing is not good, and when the kick's in play, that beat pattern plods. The main electronic track sounds too lossy/distant, like it lacks high-end. Feels like TheManPF's contributions don't cut through during the verses. There's occasional random awkward noodling or sour notes in the background (e.g. 1:38, 3:06). From 2:49-3:13, it feels like there's a lot of rumbling/noise from the backing beats, while the synth and trumpet fight for who's the lead. The timing of the synth soloing from 1:42-2:23 feels stilted and resolves awkwardly.

Good potential here, Lucas; the screws could use some additional tightening on the production side. Arrangement side's basically solid.

NO (resubmit)

[Chimpazilla]

Xenoblade Chronicles is one of the few games besides everything Zelda that I played all the way through and invested many hours into.  The OST is all sorts of amazing.

This is a strange combination of instruments.  The bass and the drum kit seem like they want to be 80s, the synths are ??? and then there is live guitar and trumpet.  I think this odd combination could work, but as Larry correctly noted, the mixing is not working. 

Drums:  The kick is so weak and almost inaudible and there is no sidechaining to allow it to come through.  The snare is audible but tame/quiet with no meat to it.  The hats are audible but the pattern being played is so simple and robotic that it is distracting.  

Synths:  The whistle synth sounds so vanilla and with no nuance.  It has a fake-sounding vibrato that enters too quickly, so each note is ending with the start of the vibrato which sounds so unnatural.  The spacey pad has a similar issue; it is a sound that develops over time, and with each new note it retriggers, giving an awkward stop/start effect. The synth beginning at 1:42 is too loud and cuts through too well, and it doesn't seem to fit with this soundscape so it sticks out, and the solo writing is sometimes off-timed and it gets a bit noodley as it moves along. The solo ends on a weird note, as Brad and Larry both pointed out.

Live instruments:  These sound great!  But the trumpet seems to compete with all the other midrangey stuff playing at the same time.  I suggest you find the fundamental frequency of the trumpet, and notch the pad, guitars, and even the bass at that frequency gently by a few db. The trumpet will shine if you do that, even without raising its volume.  The guitar work sounds quite nice, but is mixed rather quietly.

Bass:  You've got a simple eighth-note pattern playing, then a quarter-note pattern, and back to the eighth-note pattern before the outro.  Nothing wrong with that per se, but that writing is on the plain side.  While not a dealbreaker, I'd sure love to hear the bass do something a little more interesting and emotive, not so simple and robotic, and not so busy.  

Arrangement:  The overall arrangement works just fine.  Some of the transitions are abrupt, like at 0:26 when the beat drops, there is nothing signaling it, it just starts.  Oof.  At 2:49 you have the hat pattern as a transition, and that works well enough there.  But the transitions are on the weak side.

Mastering:  Seems adequate, a bit loud but not overcompressed.

Overall I think the arrangement is there, but the mixing needs an overhaul, at the very least.  Make sure leads can be heard (but not too loud), make sure drums are punching through (using volume and sidechaining).  Make the patches you are using sound more natural (i.e. the whistle vibrato and spacey pad retrigger point)   Doing just those mixing fixes will go a long way towards making this work.

NO

[MindWanderer]

I'm with proph on this one, to the point where I'm not even sure I listened to the same track as Larry and Kris, and checked the thread to see if there was an update I missed. On my setup, the kick is loud and clear, and the snare even moreso. The trumpet sounds great, full stop. There's plenty of high end, whether it's being created by a synth or the trumpet.

On the other hand, I definitely do hear the complaints about the whistle: it's a little shrill, and when it's not exposed, all its harmonics are being squeezed and it sounds pretty bland. The saw that starts at 1:42 is also overpowering. The guitar is indeed pretty quiet, and it's a shame the fairly vanilla synths were used when you had access to such a great alternative lead.

The piercing leads are the only major concern I have, and they're not remotely worth sending this back, From, me, this gets a wholehearted

YES

Update 6/20: I listened to this again on my good headphones, and I have a better appreciation for what everyone else is saying about the kicks. The bass and kicks overlap a lot in the subbass range, and that makes them a lot harder to hear. On headphones with less bass response, the kicks are covered up less. That said, the kicks are usually doubled up with the snare, which provides enough rhythm for me, and it's not like the soundscape needs the kick's bass presence. Oddly, I think the harmonics on that deep bass are also what's conflicting with the trumpet a little---which is not how physics is supposed to work, but it's what I hear. No change to my vote.

Edited June 21 by MindWanderer

[Emunator]

OK, so I feel like I haven't heard this track yet, but I think this reflects a lot of the criticism I've given on your other synth-driven music lately so I hope you don't find this too surprising when you read this. I think the synth choices here are pretty bland and uninspired. The guitar and trumpet do add a lot of spice to the mix, and the arrangement is plenty creative and varied, but the synth sounds are just... there? :( I'm not sure what sort of vibe the introduction is supposed to be setting, especially with the awkward attack/release timing on the synth keys. Kris said this but I'll reiterate because this is exactly the issue: "The spacey pad has a similar issue; it is a sound that develops over time, and with each new note it retriggers, giving an awkward stop/start effect."

The sine lead is similarly not really giving me anything to latch onto, and there's nothing in the way of expression to make it stand out as a lead instrument in the same way that TSori's trumpet does. The gradual variations in attack and decay, vibrato, and articulation is just not present. The next lead synth has a bit more harmonic character but still isn't doing much for me in terms of the way it's played or programmed. Even if you're writing with synths, think about the way it would sound on an equivalent instrument, like a saxophone or a violin. It would sound awkward without any sort of legato flow between your notes if you articulated everything as a marcato, for example, or played a violin with absolutely no vibrato (or, in this case, a completely consistent vibrato on every note) and it's going to sound similarly awkward if you articulate a synth instrument like that.

The guitar is mega-quiet and the tone is fine but not really compensating for the issues I noted with the synths, either. I think there's room for this to stand out more in the mix and make more of a statement, although the performance is great and fits the bill just fine. Bass and drums are mixed weirdly too - it feels like the synth bassline doesn't have enough movement to it. Chimpazilla also touched on sidechaining and how this will really help your track groove, even with a static 1/8th note bassline and simple drums. Currently, the kick and the bass are sitting on top of each other. I can't tell for certain, but I also feel like the bass patch itself is a little too thick for this genre, and it's muddying up the low-end further.

1:38 also feels like a straight-up sour note, like Larry said. Definitely fix that as well as the drum fill timing at 2:07, it's off-beat.

All this to say, this arrangement is great and I really have no notes to give on the conceptual front. I'm focusing on the negatives a lot, and I hope you know that I really do enjoy listening to this! I know we've already talked 1:1 about some of these issues and how to mitigate them, so I suspect that if this goes to a resubmission, you'll have a lot of tools in your belt to address it, but I don't feel like this is up to the bar at this point.

NO (resubmit)