newb resource for orchestration tips?

[sgx]

When I write orchestra-y stuff into my electronic jams, I usually find myself playing around with one of those "FULL ORCHESTRA" layered patches in my sampler (be it a combi full of nnxt's in Reason, a Dimension Pro, or EQLSO Silver). Usually I'll write a four(ish) part line and when I'm mostly satisfied, I'll begin trying to break it out into pieces for different instruments later. I don't think I'm very good at that.

Do you guys know of any books or sites with tips that will give me some basic information that will help me fake my way to sounding more like I have a legit orchestra rather than a FULL ORCHESTRA patch? I don't know the proper use for violas, what violins should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd and what do they play, cellos...I dunno..., where do all the instruments sit in the stereo field, how should I use woodwinds, etc. It would be great if the info was directed towards software music production too.

I'm not looking to begin studying orchestration or spend a crapload of time on this - as music is my hobby not my job - I'm just looking to get some basics down quickly that will boost my game in this area a bit. And then I can go back to the synths and beats!

Thanks!

[Souliarc]

Voila!

Gary Garritan is a VERY generous man.

Have fun

[MaliceX]

Someone at another forum presented that link to us and I say it is a highly recommended resource if you plan to become serious at 'basic proper techniques' of orchestral compositional arrangement.

Of course, if you can't be bothered reading that, just have yourself listen to dozens of orchestral-esque music (Anything from a movie, or a highly epic game) then whip something out of inspiration.

[Hemophiliac]

as far as placement of the sections in the stereo field, i really found a few things to be much more sucessful then others.

get an image of an overhead shot of an orchestra, then imagine yourself to be either sitting center in the audience or standing where the conductor would be...using that as center. then pan according to how it may be if you were in the center there. i also found that reverb is crutial to the depth (how far away do some of the sections sound in relation to where you are). specifically what i mean, the instruments and sections that are closer to you will have a dryer sound then those that are farther away.

also i have to point out something that Jeremy Robson has been emphasizing myself to do... read scores. the more you look at the more you see how certain instruments have been used.

myself i've been doing the same as you, reading up on orchestration and i got myself this book: http://www.amazon.com/Technique-Orchestration-Recording-Package-6th/dp/0130771619

i've heard good things about the Rimsky-Korsakov book (the book that Garritan's site lessons are based on), and the Samual Adler book as well.

it's a good idea as you said you do...writing a 4 part thing and then trying to orchestrate that out. i hope this post was helpful.

[Souliarc]

also i have to point out something that Jeremy Robson has been emphasizing myself to do... read scores. the more you look at the more you see how certain instruments have been used.

QFE

The book I'm reading now called Classical Music 101, though it's more of a guide to listening to orchestral music, also states this. Don't just read the score either, but read the score along with the music, if possible.

[DZComposer]

Reading about orchestration is one thing, but it doesn't mean as much if you don't listen to orchestral music also. In fact, it probably helps more than the book.

A lot of people think Orchestral music is boring. Anyone who says that hasn't really listened to it. You'll be amazed by the complexity of some of it, and a lot of it goes beyond the 4 part (or less) instrumentation that is so prevalent in today's modern music, which itself is a hard part to master. In fact the complexity is my current orchestration weakness.

If you can, get study scores (If you can read music, they won't help if you can't) to the stuff you are listening too.

As far as stereo fields are concerned, for the most part orchestras set up in a semicircle with treble instruments audience left (stage right) and bass instruments audience right. Pan from audience perspective. There are a few exceptions, generally the horns are in the back center, and the trumpets stage left with the trombones and tuba.

I'll hotlink this image from the Rochester Philharmonic:

Of course it's not required to set up like that. Different conductors like different setups. A good way to get a feel for how it should sound is to go to a few orchestra concerts. Some orchestras even offer discount tickets for people under 30 if you fit that age range.

I'm not saying you have to devote months and spend thousands on orchestral an CD collection. But, buy a few CDs and listen to it. Really listen to it, don't just put it on while you're surfing the internet. Go to a couple of orchestra concerts. That's nice because there is nothing to distract you from the music.

I'm not saying you have to listen to the deeply sophistcate stuff like Bach and Mozart. Some of the more modern stuff, like Shostakovich's 5th symphony, not only offers full orchestration, but it is more entertaining to modern listeners.

[sgx]

Thanks a bunch guys. The garritan link looks very helpful. Will be checking this stuff out.

[BardicKnowledge]

The garritan site is absolutely amazing. Be sure to check the main forum (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/index.php?) because there's 2 new courses starting that are exceptional looking.

[dannthr]

I also like this link:

The Orchestra: A Users Guide

http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/%7Eahugill/manual/

Which basically has samples of instrumentation layering which sounds like what you're wanting to get into--it's pretty superficial, but it's a neat site.

[Sir_NutS]

yay, I was looking for something like this, because I, like SGX, like to implement orchestral instruments sometimes to add something different to my stuff but I find myself lost about where to pan/what plays what/etc. Thanks!